DHT follow up questions/thoughts

**Quester** · 03-09-2017, 07:57 PM

So(?),
1-DHT has a systemic effect?
-Can this systemic effect be quantified other than with intuition, i.e.:
-- DHT derivatives make muscles harder by increase mind muscle connection (sounds like conjecture).
--Or, DHT derivatives cause the "dry" look. (observation is not causation)
---However, people self-report enhanced psychological wellbeing and behavioral differences on DHT so there has to be something happening.
2-Test is converted to DHT only in Skin (hair folicules) and Prostate?
3-Do both lead to the systemic effects?
4-IF Fina interferes with a stack (some suggest it doesn't interfere with test only cycles) is that interference possibly through a secondary mechanism?

**Mr.BB** · 03-10-2017, 05:58 AM

DHT and DHT derivatives anabolic steroids are completely different things.

Your questions seem tainted by a lot of bro science. Finasteride is a 5alpha reductase inhibitor, so it will affect the 5alpha reductase enzyme, so the interference it will have it is less reductase activity.

BTW, I wouldnt use fina as short for finasteride, cause some of the older guys when read fina think of finaplex, which was the original vet tren that came in pellets.

**hammerheart** · 03-10-2017, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Quester

So(?),
1-DHT has a systemic effect?
-Can this systemic effect be quantified other than with intuition, i.e.:
-- DHT derivatives make muscles harder by increase mind muscle connection (sounds like conjecture).
--Or, DHT derivatives cause the "dry" look. (observation is not causation)
---However, people self-report enhanced psychological wellbeing and behavioral differences on DHT so there has to be something happening.
2-Test is converted to DHT only in Skin (hair folicules) and Prostate?
3-Do both lead to the systemic effects?
4-IF Fina interferes with a stack (some suggest it doesn't interfere with test only cycles) is that interference possibly through a secondary mechanism?

1 - Not sure what you mean by "systemic effects", endogenous DHT (which works unlike DHT based AAS) is active in both brain and peripheral, it has the peculiarity of being purely androgenic with no anabolic power, as in muscle (and not only) it gets rapidly deactivated in neuroactive -diols, which are partly responsible for the CNS boosting and anti-stress properties of DHT.

Dry look from DHT derivates is thought to be mediated by anti-estrogen effects of DHTs on tissue.

2 - Nope, also brain and liver; testes can produce DHT also.

3 - see 1

4 - see BB answer

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-10-2017, 09:29 AM

My observations of DHT derived AAS, mainly Masteron and Primobolin. They work awesome! Let me speak on Masteron, specifically. Masteron is supposed to be a "weak" steroid and the recommended dose is 500mg+ per week. Instead of taking a cycle dose of 500mg+ per week, I took 100mg/wk, mixed with my TRT dose of Test Cyp. Wow, I looked awesome. I would wake up in the morning and I could see blood vessels all through my upper thigh and in my abdominal. I was eating pretty clean but not strict. My workouts were normal, nothing crazy. That 100mg/wk of the "weak" steroid cut me up pretty good. The only draw back was that I kept losing my freaking hair! LOL Primo is the same deal. Instead of taking a cycle dose, a small dose over time gives a really good result. Just my bro-science observation. BTW, if you're prone to hairloss and you want to keep that mop on your head, stay away from DHT derived AAS.

**Couchlock** · 03-10-2017, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

My observations of DHT derived AAS, mainly Masteron and Primobolin. They work awesome! Let me speak on Masteron, specifically. Masteron is supposed to be a "weak" steroid and the recommended dose is 500mg+ per week. Instead of taking a cycle dose of 500mg+ per week, I took 100mg/wk, mixed with my TRT dose of Test Cyp. Wow, I looked awesome. I would wake up in the morning and I could see blood vessels all through my upper thigh and in my abdominal. I was eating pretty clean but not strict. My workouts were normal, nothing crazy. That 100mg/wk of the "weak" steroid cut me up pretty good. The only draw back was that I kept losing my freaking hair! LOL Primo is the same deal. Instead of taking a cycle dose, a small dose over time gives a really good result. Just my bro-science observation. BTW, if you're prone to hairloss and you want to keep that mop on your head, stay away from DHT derived AAS.

This is great, as many know mast is in my next cycle. Is it safe to assume that the higher the dose, more hair loss is possible? (400 per week of mast, 500 per of test)

**hammerheart** · 03-10-2017, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

My observations of DHT derived AAS, mainly Masteron and Primobolin. They work awesome! Let me speak on Masteron, specifically. Masteron is supposed to be a "weak" steroid and the recommended dose is 500mg+ per week. Instead of taking a cycle dose of 500mg+ per week, I took 100mg/wk, mixed with my TRT dose of Test Cyp. Wow, I looked awesome. I would wake up in the morning and I could see blood vessels all through my upper thigh and in my abdominal. I was eating pretty clean but not strict. My workouts were normal, nothing crazy. That 100mg/wk of the "weak" steroid cut me up pretty good. The only draw back was that I kept losing my freaking hair! LOL Primo is the same deal. Instead of taking a cycle dose, a small dose over time gives a really good result. Just my bro-science observation. BTW, if you're prone to hairloss and you want to keep that mop on your head, stay away from DHT derived AAS.

I like that approach. I get noticeable conditioning from as low as 40mg weekly of Tren (ok the two won't compare).

**DocToxin8** · 03-10-2017, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Quester

So(?),
1-DHT has a systemic effect?
-Can this systemic effect be quantified other than with intuition, i.e.:
-- DHT derivatives make muscles harder by increase mind muscle connection (sounds like conjecture).
--Or, DHT derivatives cause the "dry" look. (observation is not causation)
---However, people self-report enhanced psychological wellbeing and behavioral differences on DHT so there has to be something happening.
2-Test is converted to DHT only in Skin (hair folicules) and Prostate?
3-Do both lead to the systemic effects?
4-IF Fina interferes with a stack (some suggest it doesn't interfere with test only cycles) is that interference possibly through a secondary mechanism?

The closest thing I've heard used to DHT is c17a-methyl-DHT (mestanolone), which is also a metabolite of oxymetholone/anadrol .
On it's own it's not supposed to be much anabolic at all, being inactivated quickly in muscle just like plain DHT.

Without conversion to DHT, test wouldn't be as androgenic .
And finasteride will inhibit conversion to DHT in both systemic (blood), prostate and scalp, everywhere in fact.

DHT (known by how methyl DHT affects people) is proposed to be a CNS stimulator so that you can lift more.

I think mestanolone probably has some anabolic activity,
and is part of the reason why anadrol makes you so strong and hard.
Just conjecture on my part this is.

**kelkel** · 03-10-2017, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

And finasteride will inhibit conversion to DHT in both systemic (blood), prostate and scalp, everywhere in fact.

At about a 70% rate at a full dose. From what I've read it's effective at that percentage up to 600 mgs test if I recall correctly. Beyond that, who knows.

**Quester** · 03-10-2017, 09:30 PM

Thanks for the info. I'm clearer on this now.

So, by adding Finasteride to a test only cycle one would lose a portion of the androgenic enhancing aspect but not the anabolic ?

**DocToxin8** · 03-11-2017, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Quester

Thanks for the info. I'm clearer on this now.

So, by adding Finasteride to a test only cycle one would lose a portion of the androgenic enhancing aspect but not the anabolic?

In theory yes.
But if you do, I'd like to hear if you notice any changes.

**Mr.BB** · 03-11-2017, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

At about a 70% rate at a full dose. From what I've read it's effective at that percentage up to 600 mgs test if I recall correctly. Beyond that, who knows.

Well, finasteride action is on the endogenous 5alpha reductase enzyme, and I cant see a way why this enzyme would increase when on high exogenous testosterone .

So, my opinion is that DHT values will stay relatively close, no matter the test dosage. Although its logic to have a small increase as the remaining enzymes will get an easier job at finding free test the higher it is.

Of course this is all in theory.

**Mr.BB** · 03-11-2017, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by DocToxin8

In theory yes.
But if you do, I'd like to hear if you notice any changes.

I take finasteride (quarter of proscar pil ed) for years, dont notice much differences on or off cycle.

Of course, some ppl are different and if your DHT levels get too low (very individual IMO) you can get low androgens symptoms.

**kelkel** · 03-11-2017, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Well, finasteride action is on the endogenous 5alpha reductase enzyme, and I cant see a way why this enzyme would increase when on high exogenous testosterone .

So, my opinion is that DHT values will stay relatively close, no matter the test dosage. Although its logic to have a small increase as the remaining enzymes will get an easier job at finding free test the higher it is.

Of course this is all in theory.

It is interesting and we've pm'd about it when I was just getting into the Finaseride world. 600 mgs test was just the limit on the one study that I remember. I'll be monitoring mine on my next go round to see how it goes.

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-11-2017, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

This is great, as many know mast is in my next cycle. Is it safe to assume that the higher the dose, more hair loss is possible? (400 per week of mast, 500 per of test)

That's been my observation.

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-11-2017, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

Thanks for the info. I'm clearer on this now.

So, by adding Finasteride to a test only cycle one would lose a portion of the androgenic enhancing aspect but not the anabolic?

I'm on 5mg/ed of Finasteride. I don't notice any loss of anabolic effects from my TRT dose.

**hammerheart** · 03-11-2017, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

I'm on 5mg/ed of Finasteride. I don't notice any loss of anabolic effects from my TRT dose.

Maybe that's why you obtain great results from low dose mast. It basically goes to replace your endogenous DHT.

**kelkel** · 03-11-2017, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by bizzarro

Maybe that's why you obtain great results from low dose mast. It basically goes to replace your endogenous DHT.

Interesting theory Biz.

**Quester** · 03-11-2017, 05:20 PM

I have a lot of hair. Just last year(around this time) I started to let it grow, I always kept it short. I noticed that it took a very long

time but, now it is almost long enough to use a rubber band in back. I started HRT in Feb. In the past three or four weeks I've noticed

more hair in my hands when I shampoo in the shower. It isn't MPB because it has just started. However, I don't want it to proceed.

Incidentally, my BW from 5 Jan, (which I posted) showed DHT levels off the charts on the low end. I get new BW on Monday (13/3).

I'll post both BW results to this thread then. I'm also looking into topical dutasteride, topical Lantanoprost, and the combination. I'm

not vain but I feel that the rough edges of my personality are rounded by my appearance and the confidence it gives me.

**hammerheart** · 03-11-2017, 06:03 PM

You might want to include something basic as a zinc supplement.

I like my hair, which I have a lot of and I'm vain, I did too experience some degree of MBP (running in the family as well as BPH) but it just stopped at some point. Anyway I have found estro too be much more bad for my hair as it makes it greasy.