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Thread: Help on Deca and Test stack

  1. #1
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Question Help on Deca and Test stack

    -25 year old male
    -6'5'' tall
    -210 pounds
    -14% body fat
    -This will be my first and only cycle (Yeah, yeah, they all say that right? I have no intentions of making this a lifestyle choice past a few months)
    -I have been lifting consistently for 8 years or so, I'm very consistent, but I choose not to always work super hard (less sets per week and such). I have had long periods of sustained hard work, I'm fully capable of doing so for this cycle.
    -No highly important medical facts, I have scar tissue buildup that sometimes causes shoulder impingement, but I've learned and used what works for me for a long time now.

    My goal is that I am very close to being as big as I have ever wanted, so I want to do a strong cycle in hopes that I can get around 10 pounds to achieve my lifetime physique goals. I am in a very competitive field and I love lifting, but it isn't my life. I am coming up on a period where I can truly concentrate well on lifting, so I will be able to commit fully to this cycle.

    I want help on ensuring that everything is in order with this cycle, I want to write out all of the drugs on a calendar to ensure everything is taken at the right times and in the right amounts, I also have seen conflicting information within sticky posts as compared to the fact sheets for the drugs, so I would like to reconcile that information.

    Initial cycle plan:
    -Week 1-12: Test (Testosterone Cypionate ) 400/500 mg per week
    -Week 1-12: Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate) 300/400 mg per week
    -Week 1-12 HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin ) 250 iu Every 5 days
    -Week 1-12 Armidex (Anastrozole) .5 mg EOD
    -Week 13-14 NOTHING
    -Week 15-16 Nolva (Tamoxifen Citrate) 40mg/40/20/20 ED
    -Week 15-20 Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) 150mg/150/100/100/50/50 ED


    Questions:
    2. I am very confused on the usage of HCG because I have read from conflicting sources. Does my Week 13-14 need HCG and what should I properly do with HCG weeks 15-16? Some sources say to wait 10 days before starting with Nolva and Clomid after HCG usage, so Should I continue HCG during Week 13-14 and add an additional 10 days before starting the other 2 PCT drugs?
    3. Do you see any errors in my setup?

    I have no plans of starting any of this until all of my information is in line. I have read all of the stickies I could find, so I have an information overload right now. I want a perfect plan in order and all of my supplies and bloodwork before I begin. Answering and of my questions would be wonderful, thanks for reading and helping.

    Thanks so much,

    Dom

    EDITs:
    -Deca eliminated
    -Test to 500mg per week
    -Adex to .25mg EOD
    -Clomid to 100/50/50/50
    Last edited by Domtux; 10-19-2017 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #2
    john13 is offline Junior Member
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    wouldnt run that much deca for a first cycle, 300 should be fine + get some caber or prami. hcg should be run untill before pct starts. to much clomid lol imho, 100-50-50-50 would be all you need.

  3. #3
    songdog's Avatar
    songdog is offline ARs TOP DOG ~ MONITOR ~
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    1st cycle test ONLY you will grow like a weed and you need too know how your body will react to test and being new you only want to run 1 compound beacuse if you have a bad reaction you won't know wat caused it.Plus you are only going to grow so much on this cycle adding Deca is a waste.

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    charger69 is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by songdog View Post
    1st cycle test ONLY you will grow like a weed and you need too know how your body will react to test and being new you only want to run 1 compound beacuse if you have a bad reaction you won't know wat caused it.Plus you are only going to grow so much on this cycle adding Deca is a waste.
    Song dog always has it right... Test only. Hcg 500 per week until PCT. do not overthink it. I would drop adex to .25 eod and drop clomid to 100/50/50/50/50. There is a sticky on the first cycle. I recommend that you read it.

  5. #5
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Thanks, so I would drop HCG 10 days before using Nolva/Clomid, as I've seen suggested elsewhere?

  6. #6
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by songdog View Post
    1st cycle test ONLY you will grow like a weed and you need too know how your body will react to test and being new you only want to run 1 compound beacuse if you have a bad reaction you won't know wat caused it.Plus you are only going to grow so much on this cycle adding Deca is a waste.
    I wanted to use the Deca because I only wanted to do one big cycle, but if it only goes to waste I suppose Test will be enough. Do you think I would still be able to gain around my minimum desire of 10 pounds (all things else being in line?). I always agreed with the reasoning of only using test in the first cycle, I just don't plan on ever doing a 2nd.

  7. #7
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    If anyone has a super specific hands-on-experience with HCG , I'd like to hear how you used it. The profile page reads:

    " HCG dose of 250iu every 4-5 days is not only standard but as far as most will want to take it. This will be enough HCG to produce the desired outcome and should not be exceeded if future natural testosterone production is to be protected.

    The final HCG dosing plan will surround PCT use and there are two suitable protocols. The first method of use calls for 1,500-4,000iu’s to be administered every 3-4 days for a period of 2-3 weeks. Once this period of use comes to an end SERM therapy will begin again. A second option and perhaps more efficient is to administer HCG daily at a dose of 500-1,000iu’s per day for 10 days straight. Once this phase of use has come to an end SERM therapy will begin.

    If HCG is used during your PCT, timing is very important. If your steroid cycle ends with any large ester based steroids HCG therapy will begin 10 days after your last injection and then be followed by SERM therapy once HCG use is complete. If your steroid cycle ends with all small ester base steroids, you will begin HCG therapy 3 days after your last injection and follow it with SERM therapy once HCG use is complete."
    So, going off of this, I could do 250iu every 5 days, and then I stop the 250iu HCG along with my Test, then after 10 days I do 500iu for 10 straight days, then I stop and start with Clomid and Nolva? This is what I'm gleaning from the info above, that would place my PCT with Nolva and Clomid at 20 days after steroid use ends.

  8. #8
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    hCG 250ius twice a week (500ius total per week)
    weeks 1-14

    simple as that

  9. #9
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domtux View Post
    I always agreed with the reasoning of only using test in the first cycle, I just don't plan on ever doing a 2nd.

    Hmmm. Let us know how that works out.....


    ps: Have you read the Successful First Cycle Sticky Thread at the top of this forum?
    And welcome to the forum bwt.
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  10. #10
    songdog's Avatar
    songdog is offline ARs TOP DOG ~ MONITOR ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domtux View Post
    I wanted to use the Deca because I only wanted to do one big cycle, but if it only goes to waste I suppose Test will be enough. Do you think I would still be able to gain around my minimum desire of 10 pounds (all things else being in line?). I always agreed with the reasoning of only using test in the first cycle, I just don't plan on ever doing a 2nd.
    You are not going to gain any more using the Deca there is a saying grow into your dose use as lil as you can for as long as you can.10lbs is a lot you have to eat right but not so much you get fat about 500 cals over your TDEE then keep it up after your cycle our you lose those gains.
    TRA likes this.

  11. #11
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by songdog View Post
    You are not going to gain any more using the Deca there is a saying grow into your dose use as lil as you can for as long as you can.10lbs is a lot you have to eat right but not so much you get fat about 500 cals over your TDEE then keep it up after your cycle our you lose those gains.
    Around 3800 calories is rough for me, I've been forcing more on myself recently just to make sure I'll be able to eat enough. Thanks man.

  12. #12
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Hmmm. Let us know how that works out.....


    ps: Have you read the Successful First Cycle Sticky Thread at the top of this forum?
    And welcome to the forum bwt.
    Yeah, I've read it, Ill post a good while from now and we will see If I can live by what I said haha. I love casual lifting tbh, I just wanna give this a go just to see how far I can push it since I have the time.

  13. #13
    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    hCG 250ius twice a week (500ius total per week)
    weeks 1-14

    simple as that
    Thanks man.

    -Week 1-12: Test (Testosterone Cypionate ) 500 mg per week
    -Week 1-14 HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin ) 250 iu Twice per week
    -Week 1-12 Armidex (Anastrozole) .25 mg EOD
    -Week 15-18 Nolva (Tamoxifen Citrate) 40mg/40/20/20 ED
    -Week 15-18 Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate) 100mg/50/50/50 ED

    Does everything look in order here now?

  14. #14
    TRA's Avatar
    TRA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domtux View Post
    Yeah, I've read it, Ill post a good while from now and we will see If I can live by what I said haha. I love casual lifting tbh, I just wanna give this a go just to see how far I can push it since I have the time.
    I understand the reference of casual lifting to be your norm, but not during your cycle. Still want to throw in that AAS improve recovery and effectiveness and for me I had to work harder to get the added benefit. I had a cycle where I got injured (unrelated to lifting) and was mid cycle and opted to continue. When my workout intensity decreased and lifts were not as frequent I saw progress come to a near halt. I was stronger and recovered better but without adding more work I just cruised and didn't optimize the potential, in fact, basically neutralized it.
    I would urge that you make sure you can take in the required clean kcals and if you decide to go ahead attack your lifting like nothing else, with common sense to avoid injury.

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    Domtux is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post
    I understand the reference of casual lifting to be your norm, but not during your cycle. Still want to throw in that AAS improve recovery and effectiveness and for me I had to work harder to get the added benefit. I had a cycle where I got injured (unrelated to lifting) and was mid cycle and opted to continue. When my workout intensity decreased and lifts were not as frequent I saw progress come to a near halt. I was stronger and recovered better but without adding more work I just cruised and didn't optimize the potential, in fact, basically neutralized it.
    I would urge that you make sure you can take in the required clean kcals and if you decide to go ahead attack your lifting like nothing else, with common sense to avoid injury.
    Thanks for the anecdote. Yeah, I've already started the workout plan and eating I plan to do later, so I can test it out. I think things should work out. A problem I have is that I eat at a University dining hall (I'm a researching grad student, its really cost effective) for almost all of my meals, so getting the calorie numbers down is hard. Any suggestions there? I essentially have infinite anything, but I'm not looking to bring in a scale with me haha.

  16. #16
    TRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domtux View Post
    Thanks for the anecdote. Yeah, I've already started the workout plan and eating I plan to do later, so I can test it out. I think things should work out. A problem I have is that I eat at a University dining hall (I'm a researching grad student, its really cost effective) for almost all of my meals, so getting the calorie numbers down is hard. Any suggestions there? I essentially have infinite anything, but I'm not looking to bring in a scale with me haha.
    I would play around with an online nutritional database (for example, google 'nutritional information chicken breast' and use one of the ones that come up that is user friendly and that you like). You can select per chicken breast rather than grams and it will give you the approximate grams per breast, per medium sweet potato, per cup of x, etc. and you can eyeball from there. Just watch your weight and adjust. Not ideal but should work. Might be difficult first run because of possible bloat from test if e2 a little high (apex not dialed in), etc. There is some margin for error but you don't want to let kcal get out of hand or do too few so you waste the cycle.

    May want to post up the diet issue in the diet and nutrition section and get some input there, as I'm sure there are a lot of pearls in that forum!

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