Dabbling ideas for 3rd cycle

**Octaneforce** · 01-27-2018, 06:24 PM

Id like to do a test prop/npp/dbol cycle in the spring. I was thinking 525 test and 525 npp weekly. Dbol dose im not sure i need some suggestions for that. This leaves me with 2 questions:
I know 525/525 sounds high but its ugl gear so its probably a little underdosed. Atleast this particular brand felt a little low to me. Consistent and painless oil, but just a smidge low on the potency. This dose comes out to about 2.5cc per pin every other day. Is this too much oil at once? Will i have to inject every day to lower the volume? I did 1.7cc eod during my last cycle with no issues

Also, is it possible to use dbol without looking like the michilin man? Id like to do a clean bulk with very little salt. I really want to try dbol but im worried about the water weight.

**ThatGuy82** · 01-28-2018, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Id like to do a test prop/npp/dbol cycle in the spring. I was thinking 525 test and 525 npp weekly. Dbol dose im not sure i need some suggestions for that. This leaves me with 2 questions:
I know 525/525 sounds high but its ugl gear so its probably a little underdosed. Atleast this particular brand felt a little low to me. Consistent and painless oil, but just a smidge low on the potency. This dose comes out to about 2.5cc per pin every other day. Is this too much oil at once? Will i have to inject every day to lower the volume? I did 1.7cc eod during my last cycle with no issues

Also, is it possible to use dbol without looking like the michilin man? Id like to do a clean bulk with very little salt. I really want to try dbol but im worried about the water weight.

Could always replace the Dbol with tbol? 40mg per day weeks 1-8... Less bloat and water weight than Dbol

**Octaneforce** · 01-28-2018, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Could always replace the Dbol with tbol? 40mg per day weeks 1-8... Less bloat and water weight than Dbol

Funny i was just about to mention that i did tbol during my last cycle. I liked it but i needed 90mg a day to see the affects and it bloated me quite a bit. Made me strong as hell tho. So thats why i wanted to try dbol . Also it seems that dbol kicks in alot faster than tbol from what ive read

**ThatGuy82** · 01-29-2018, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Funny i was just about to mention that i did tbol during my last cycle. I liked it but i needed 90mg a day to see the affects and it bloated me quite a bit. Made me strong as hell tho. So thats why i wanted to try dbol. Also it seems that dbol kicks in alot faster than tbol from what ive read

Yeah I've never tried Dbol so I cannot compare. I preloaded my first 3 weeks with 750mg test E and 40mg Tbol and noticed a good amount of bloat. This week though I'm back down to 500mg of test and keeping the tbol at 40mg so I'm hoping this bloat subsides a bit because just with that and eating a constant 3800cal per day ...bro... I felt so damn full all day like I was about to push out a 10lb baby at any given moment.

Hopefully someone who has tried Dbol and tbol at different times can chyme in here.

**Octaneforce** · 01-29-2018, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by ThatGuy82

Yeah I've never tried Dbol so I cannot compare. I preloaded my first 3 weeks with 750mg test E and 40mg Tbol and noticed a good amount of bloat. This week though I'm back down to 500mg of test and keeping the tbol at 40mg so I'm hoping this bloat subsides a bit because just with that and eating a constant 3800cal per day ...bro... I felt so damn full all day like I was about to push out a 10lb baby at any given moment.

Hopefully someone who has tried Dbol and tbol at different times can chyme in here.

What was your ai dose? Tbol doesnt aromatize so if less test brings your bloat down then it was probably estro related bloat. When i got bloated on tbol it was Usually diet related

**ThatGuy82** · 01-29-2018, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

What was your ai dose? Tbol doesnt aromatize so if less test brings your bloat down then it was probably estro related bloat. When i got bloated on tbol it was Usually diet related

AI was started week 2 At .25mg eod. Def estro related bloat here ...as well as upping my calorie intake. I began this cycle at around 18% bf too, so this cycle is def going to be a challenge ...Basically a recomp cycle here.

**ThatGuy82** · 01-29-2018, 07:33 PM

But I was just saying that if youre worried about the bloat with dbol just use the Tbol... it basically does the same thing as dbol (even if you have to take a bit more) and works well with a longer ester test to get those good pumps in early in the first few weeks... without the bloat lol

**Clove1234** · 01-29-2018, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

What was your ai dose? Tbol doesnt aromatize so if less test brings your bloat down then it was probably estro related bloat. When i got bloated on tbol it was Usually diet related

Just wanted to say, i got some good info relating to “estrogen related bloat” from some experts on this thread. I think its a myth now. Obviously some compounds will make you hold more water but imo estrogen isn’t what makes you feel bloated. It’s diet. I was miserably bloated, felt like a whale. Did nothing but change my diet and its all gone.

**Clove1234** · 01-29-2018, 08:13 PM

One of the points that was made to me is think about a shredded or very lean female, they have higher levels of estrogen then males and can get a lean look. I know a lady at my gym who is completely natural, she is a freak though. Striated delts and back.

**ThatGuy82** · 01-29-2018, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Clove1234

One of the points that was made to me is think about a shredded or very lean female, they have higher levels of estrogen then males and can get a lean look. I know a lady at my gym who is completely natural, she is a freak though. Striated delts and back.

Well yes, to a certain extent. However too much estrogen, or estrogen dominance can cause toxic fat gain, water retention, bloating etc. It's definitely not the main cause in bloat (which I agree with is mostly diet) but it definitely adds to it. This is why it is not recommended to cycle above 13-15% bf because the estrogen excess is already present causing most of the initial bloat in the beginning. But I love seeing the transformation around week 8-12 once most of my solid gains have been made and I get my estrogen in check with AI and low dose nolva (gyno prone). I drop the tbol at week 8 and switch to 100mg winny. Drop calories/carb cycle... Bloat no more lol

**Tzan** · 01-29-2018, 08:58 PM

I've ran a cutter before with kickstarting the cycle with dbol for the first 5wks at 50mg. As long as your diet is clean and you have some armidex on hand(that's what I used) I don't see any issue at all with using it. Love the almost immediate strength gains dbol provides

**GearHeaded** · 01-29-2018, 09:33 PM

525mg of test with 525mg of NPP is just fine. thats not a super high dose. I've ran triple that. NPP is very side effect free for guys that are not prolactin sensitive. its a great compound.
if you want help growing and adding on some size then yes Dbol is really good to add to that stack. I recommend the taper method of Dbol so you have time to acclimate to the gains and don't just gain water weight that you piss away.
looks like this
Dbol
50mg a day weeks 1-4
30mg a day weeks 5-7
20g a day week 8-10

be aware that Dbol converts to a powerful form of estrogen. if your gyno prone or worried then run Nolva on this cycle. have Letro on hand as well. and use an AI like aromasin sparingly, or only if needed .

**Octaneforce** · 01-29-2018, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

525mg of test with 525mg of NPP is just fine. thats not a super high dose. I've ran triple that. NPP is very side effect free for guys that are not prolactin sensitive. its a great compound.
if you want help growing and adding on some size then yes Dbol is really good to add to that stack. I recommend the taper method of Dbol so you have time to acclimate to the gains and don't just gain water weight that you piss away.
looks like this
Dbol
50mg a day weeks 1-4
30mg a day weeks 5-7
20g a day week 8-10

be aware that Dbol converts to a powerful form of estrogen. if your gyno prone or worried then run Nolva on this cycle. have Letro on hand as well. and use an AI like aromasin sparingly, or only if needed .

Wow 10 weeks on dbol? I thought the rule is 6 weeks max for any oral. I'll have to stock up on tudca and nac. Anyway i was actually gonna pm you for your dbol tapering method so im glad you told me here. Ill definitely go with that dose plan. Im very gyno prone. Was planning on running 20mg nolva ed and 25mg aromasin ed. I know you are an advocate of higher estro so that must sound high to you. I guess i could bump it down to 12.5mg of aromasin ed.

**guitarzan** · 01-30-2018, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Wow 10 weeks on dbol? I thought the rule is 6 weeks max for any oral. I'll have to stock up on tudca and nac. Anyway i was actually gonna pm you for your dbol tapering method so im glad you told me here. Ill definitely go with that dose plan. Im very gyno prone. Was planning on running 20mg nolva ed and 25mg aromasin ed. I know you are an advocate of higher estro so that must sound high to you. I guess i could bump it down to 12.5mg of aromasin ed.

20mg of nolva ed sounds pretty high too

**GearHeaded** · 01-30-2018, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Wow 10 weeks on dbol? I thought the rule is 6 weeks max for any oral. .

thats not really a "rule"

its dependent on the oral itself and the dose. heck you can run VAR for a year straight !! VAR is prescribed to treat alcoholic liver disease, so NO its not bad on the liver, it helps regenerate it. thats why I find it crazy when guys tell girls who take VAR to take liver support with it (even though their dose is so low the same as a prescribed liver patient dose), LOL. its all 'cookie cutter bro science' being spread out there.

now back to the Dbol .. your really only taking a mild normal dose for the first 4 weeks. your tapering things down over time and thats why you can run it so long and you should run it long. 20mg of Dbol is no harder on your liver then one beer a day. big deal.... sure run TUDCA and NAC, heck I even do that when off cycle. my point is that a 10 week taper of Dbol is way more effective and has less sides then a stupid 4 week blast of Dbol.. the taper method is tried and true. the 4 week blasts is what gives Dbol a bad name from newbs that don't know what they are doing and say they lost all their gains and only got bloated from dbol

**Octaneforce** · 01-30-2018, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

20mg of nolva ed sounds pretty high too

Im just gyno prone and super neurotic. Gyno scares the shit out of me lol.

**Octaneforce** · 01-30-2018, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

thats not really a "rule"

its dependent on the oral itself and the dose. heck you can run VAR for a year straight !! VAR is prescribed to treat alcoholic liver disease, so NO its not bad on the liver, it helps regenerate it. thats why I find it crazy when guys tell girls who take VAR to take liver support with it (even though their dose is so low the same as a prescribed liver patient dose), LOL. its all 'cookie cutter bro science' being spread out there.

now back to the Dbol.. your really only taking a mild normal dose for the first 4 weeks. your tapering things down over time and thats why you can run it so long and you should run it long. 20mg of Dbol is no harder on your liver then one beer a day. big deal.... sure run TUDCA and NAC, heck I even do that when off cycle. my point is that a 10 week taper of Dbol is way more effective and has less sides then a stupid 4 week blast of Dbol.. the taper method is tried and true. the 4 week blasts is what gives Dbol a bad name from newbs that don't know what they are doing and say they lost all their gains and only got bloated from dbol

Alright im sold! Thanks for educating me. Im
Also gonna keep prami and caber on hand. I figure I'll have both in case i get nasty sides from one of them.

**GearHeaded** · 01-30-2018, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Alright im sold! Thanks for educating me. Im
Also gonna keep prami and caber on hand. I figure I'll have both in case i get nasty sides from one of them.

more keepable gains brother !

definitely a good idea keeping
Prami
Letro
Nolva
Aromasin

on hand and ready to go

**Iron Frenchie** · 01-31-2018, 07:18 AM

I would lower the test up the NPP and drop the dbol . Maybe tbol if you have to do a oral. Test and nandrolone create a lot of estrogen when combined. Then your adding dbol on top... and your prone to gyno. I would rethink this.

**ScotchGuard02** · 02-01-2018, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Id like to do a test prop/npp/dbol cycle in the spring. I was thinking 525 test and 525 npp weekly. Dbol dose im not sure i need some suggestions for that. This leaves me with 2 questions:
I know 525/525 sounds high but its ugl gear so its probably a little underdosed. Atleast this particular brand felt a little low to me. Consistent and painless oil, but just a smidge low on the potency. This dose comes out to about 2.5cc per pin every other day. Is this too much oil at once? Will i have to inject every day to lower the volume? I did 1.7cc eod during my last cycle with no issues

Also, is it possible to use dbol without looking like the michilin man? Id like to do a clean bulk with very little salt. I really want to try dbol but im worried about the water weight.

Octane are you still 22 or is that profile old? I've pinned 3cc/eod before. Not really a big deal. 525/525 is a great cycle. I've ran one like it in the past and made great gains. I really likes the NPP short ester but the Test Prop hurt like a MUTHER!

**Octaneforce** · 02-03-2018, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Octane are you still 22 or is that profile old? I've pinned 3cc/eod before. Not really a big deal. 525/525 is a great cycle. I've ran one like it in the past and made great gains. I really likes the NPP short ester but the Test Prop hurt like a MUTHER!

Im 24 I'll be 25 while im on this next cycle. So i guess the profile never updates?
Test prop doesnt bother me at all. I must be lucky!

**ScotchGuard02** · 02-06-2018, 02:35 PM

Yeah, I guess the "age" in "profile" doesn't update automatically. It wouldn't be hard to calculate the "age" from the birth date in java. Anyway, you must have a cast iron butt. LOL

**Octaneforce** · 02-07-2018, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Yeah, I guess the "age" in "profile" doesn't update automatically. It wouldn't be hard to calculate the "age" from the birth date in java. Anyway, you must have a cast iron butt. LOL

Lmao. My rotation is calf, quad, tricep, shoulder. Ive always been resilient against pip so i hope it stays that way!