The lie about sterile injections

**symatech** · 08-10-2005, 04:12 PM

I have read more than once and talked to more than one doctor (one was ER) and they all said alcohol doesn't sterilize the injection site. This has been discussed before and I think the general consensus was that it's better than not swabbing at all. Iodine is definately the most effective way, but who want to go through that trouble.

Besides, there is no such thing as a sterile injection even at a hospital with iodine unless you are in a clean room -which nobody is-. I wouldn't worry about it, just keep swabbing and you'll be ok.

**956Vette** · 08-10-2005, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by symatech

I have read more than once and talked to more than one doctor (one was ER) and they all said alcohol doesn't sterilize the injection site. This has been discussed before and I think the general consensus was that it's better than not swabbing at all. Iodine is definately the most effective way, but who want to go through that trouble.

Besides, there is no such thing as a sterile injection even at a hospital with iodine unless you are in a clean room -which nobody is-. I wouldn't worry about it, just keep swabbing and you'll be ok.

havent read everything in this thread, but sym basically summed it up perfectly. alcohol swabs can just smear around dirt, etc. Best practice (imo) is to inject after a shower and still go about the usual swab protocal

**symatech** · 08-10-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by 956Vette

havent read everything in this thread, but sym basically summed it up perfectly. alcohol swabs can just smear around dirt, etc. Best practice (imo) is to inject after a shower and still go about the usual swab protocal

yeah that's why they advise you to swab in a circular motion from the point of insertion outward. This is to take any dirt etc and spread it away from the injection site.

also, injecting after a shower is good because the muscles are generally more relaxed. For me it's made them much easier.

**Hazard** · 08-10-2005, 04:50 PM

to clarify sterilization for some of you...... it is IMPOSSIBLE to sterilize your skin! YOU CAN'T DOIT.

I work in a hospital and my job is to sterilize the instruments used for surgery. When instruments come down... they are often bloody.... these instruments get soaked in a special solution to loosen up dried blood... and to also kill any "living" organisms on the instrument. After that... the instruments go through a washer where they are subject to various solutions and VERY VERY hot water...... once they come out of that washer they are "clean" but not yet "sterile"......

In order to sterilize there are 5 methods..... the ones used at my hospital are: Steam(auto clave), GAS (ETO), and Hydrogen Peroxide (plasma). While im not familiar with the other 2 methods... i believe they are "Laser" and "Nuclear" tho im not 100% sure on that.

Anyways..... the "Clean" instruments get set up again in the proper order. Then they go into a canister which is lined with filters. The canister is then locked and it's ready to sterilize. Single instruments go into "peel packs" or single packs and those are sealed shut.

Most surgical instruments get steam sterilized (auto claved) - they are generally sterilized for 4(four) minutes at 270 degrees farenheight - then they go through a 20 minute drying period. once they come out of the sterilizer... they can then be called "STERILE"..... until they are opened

It is extremily important to have that surgical room as clean as possible!

Other surgical supplies like light cords and cameras get sterilized via Hydrogen peroxide (plasma) they are also sealed.

Gas (ETO) sterilization is getting cut back more and more. It's just inconvenient because when you gas sterilize.... you generally hafta wait 24 hours before you can use the instrument/s. The only things that really get gas sterilized anymore are your scopes (flexible/rigid ureteroscopes) and other various things of the like.

Also.... remember..... YOU CAN NOT STERILIZE A PROTEIN! Meaning.... if there is a chunk of meat left on an instument.... and it goes through un-noticed..... that instrument wont be sterile.

The closest thing to sterilization without actually sterilizing is called "Cidex" (Gluteraldehyde) - this solution is EXTREMILY toxic.... it can permamntly bleach your skin! In order to be effective... w/e your trying to "clean" (notice is aid clean.... because it's still nto "sterile") has to be soaked in a cleaning solution... then whiped down.... rinsed..... and then placed into "cidex" for 45 minutes.....

Sorry for the long post... and while it was off topic..... i had to post it up anyways. All this talk about sterilizing your skin and such was just eating away at my nerves.....

ALL IN ALL...... YOUR SKIN WILL NEVER BE STERILE! NEVER!
~haz~

**dirtyvegas** · 08-10-2005, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Slypknot

True, unless it makes more sense to actually use something which kills bacteria - such as iodine... which is what I'm considering changing over to....

maybee anti-bacterial soap then alcohol after the injection, just a thought.

**symatech** · 08-10-2005, 05:17 PM

hazard - thank you for the informative post!

**956Vette** · 08-10-2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by dirtyvegas

maybee anti-bacterial soap then alcohol after the injection, just a thought.

you would be suprised how many anti-bact soaps kill little to no bacteria at all

**trisdog** · 08-10-2005, 05:34 PM

forget alcohol pads use some whisky! lol

**Hazard** · 08-10-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by symatech

hazard - thank you for the informative post!

quite welcome

**Joey2ness** · 08-10-2005, 06:09 PM

so if i doused alcohol all over my myself and light it on fire, then will it kill 99.9% of the bacteria

alcohol V.S regular soap
which one kills more bacteria

**G-13** · 08-10-2005, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Slypknot

Ok, I've got several friends in the medical field and we got to talking about injections. I mentioned that I'm always very careful (because they were obviously concerned) and that I use alchohol like it's my job.

WELL.... one of these cats is an MD, the others are EMT's....they ALL kinda chuckled and let me in on a secret which I hope you bro's can either validate or dismiss. Alchohol does NOTHING for sterilizing an injection spot. In order for alchohol to actually kill bacteria it requires 30-60 coverage (which is why medical instruments are soaked rather than just dipped).

The ONLY thing they recommended to use for cleaning was iodine (which is what is used in surgery rather than alchohol).

Thoughts? I hate to think I've been wasting my time rubbing alchohol on the vials, injection spots, etc when it really does nothing but smell up the bathroom!

They are absolutely correct, alcohol is an emulsafier we should be using betadine or iodine, but for spot injections it's fine.

**beachbum28** · 08-10-2005, 11:13 PM

If you are worried that ach doesn't work, which it should be rubbed on several times allowing at leat 3 minutes to work, use the decolorized iodine...no color..no stain...and work 100% Try some bleach on dat ass.. i know that kills bac... Just kidding.. try the decolorized id... although iodine is like 45% ach

**The Baron** · 08-11-2005, 11:06 AM

Sterilizing would be great, but thoroughly cleaning the site and killing a significant amount of remaining germs is a hell of a lot better than just jabbing. It is a cost/benefit ratio thing. An alcohol wipe is cheap and only takes a few seconds and does a very good job of cleaning the site. Betadine or iodine might kill more germs than alcohol, but one must be ready to tolerate all the staining, etc, and I have not seen pre-packaged wipes such as the alcohol ones. One thing is for sure... doing SOMETHING for cleanliness is better by far than doing NOTHING. With a box of 100 swabs costing two bucks at walgreen's, I don't mind buying and using them. Same with good old soap and water. Gotta hit the rain locker anyway, so I am with everybody else on shooting after showering. Every injection carries a risk. To the greatest degree practical, one should minimize this risk.

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