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Thread: Second cycle advice (limiting gaining weight)

  1. #1
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Question Second cycle advice (limiting gaining weight)

    Just finished my first cycle of HGH 5iu/day + 10 weeks of test E @ 350mg/week + HCG during cycle + proper pct.

    I have gained around 22 lbs which is not ideal for me since I do boxing and CrossFit and gaining that much weight will be disadvantage somehow. (my current body fat 8-9%).
    I do CrossFit @ 5am and boxing in the afternoon for 5 days/week. (Rest days: swimming/hiking)

    I have a plan to start my second cycle within 10-12 weeks from now on, and wondering to get some idea what should be my second cycle with minimal dosage to mainly increase my strength + endurance and have little/no impact on my weight.

  2. #2
    Eduke93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    Just finished my first cycle of HGH 5iu/day + 10 weeks of test E @ 350mg/week + HCG during cycle + proper pct.

    I have gained around 22 lbs which is not ideal for me since I do boxing and CrossFit and gaining that much weight will be disadvantage somehow. (my current body fat 8-9%).
    I do CrossFit @ 5am and boxing in the afternoon for 5 days/week. (Rest days: swimming/hiking)

    I have a plan to start my second cycle within 10-12 weeks from now on, and wondering to get some idea what should be my second cycle with minimal dosage to mainly increase my strength + endurance and have little/no impact on my weight.
    Generally gaining muscle comes down to food… So that’s down to you and your diet. Seeing as this is your second cycle, Test and maybe a kick starter like Anavar would suit you well for your goals. Anavar is great from lean gains and strength, combined with a base of test.

    Something like 50mg Anavar ED x6 weeks, 12 weeks Test E 500-600mg P/W.

    What PCT did you run with your last cycle, if it worked well then use this again. Did you get blood work?
    Last edited by Eduke93; 05-21-2018 at 04:40 AM. Reason: Spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    Just finished my first cycle of HGH 5iu/day + 10 weeks of test E @ 350mg/week + HCG during cycle + proper pct.

    I have gained around 22 lbs which is not ideal for me since I do boxing and CrossFit and gaining that much weight will be disadvantage somehow. (my current body fat 8-9%).
    I do CrossFit @ 5am and boxing in the afternoon for 5 days/week. (Rest days: swimming/hiking)

    I have a plan to start my second cycle within 10-12 weeks from now on, and wondering to get some idea what should be my second cycle with minimal dosage to mainly increase my strength + endurance and have little/no impact on my weight.
    Run 300mg/wk Test Prop + 300mg/wk of Mast Prop for 8 weeks. Both compounds hold little water and Mast doesn't amortize. Control your salt intake (1500mg/ed or less). You do a ton of cardio based exercise so you should eat 40% of your diet in clean carbs.
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  4. #4
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eduke93 View Post
    Generally gaining muscle comes down to food… So that’s down to you and your diet. Seeing as this is your second cycle, Test and maybe a kick starter like Anavar would suit you well for your goals. Anavar is great from lean gains and strength, combined with a base of test.

    Something like 50mg Anavar ED x6 weeks, 12 weeks Test E 500-600mg P/W.

    What PCT did you run with your last cycle, if it worked well then use this again. Did you get blood work?
    During cycle I run aromasin @6.25 ED + HCG @250mg/twice a week.
    PCT: Nolvadex 20-20-10-10.

    By the way, I prefer to take injection instead of pills since I have one kidney. Can you give me an alternative for anavar?

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    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    Run 300mg/wk Test Prop + 300mg/wk of Mast Prop for 8 weeks. Both compounds hold little water and Mast doesn't amortize. Control your salt intake (1500mg/ed or less). You do a ton of cardio based exercise so you should eat 40% of your diet in clean carbs.
    Is there any reason to switch from Test E to Test Prop ? By the way do you think it's a good idea to run 2.5iu HGH along with and continue it for 6 month?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    During cycle I run aromasin @6.25 ED + HCG @250mg/twice a week.
    PCT: Nolvadex 20-20-10-10.

    By the way, I prefer to take injection instead of pills since I have one kidney. Can you give me an alternative for anavar?
    Could use some masteron instead.

  7. #7
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    You're upset that you gained 22 pounds on cycle and you're still at 8% body fat what the fuck is to be upset about because you can't do CrossFit anymore?

    You should feel good you gained 22 pounds of pure muscle if you're at 8% body fat CrossFit for people who aren't huge the huge guys lift real weights I don't dangle from rubber band from a pull-up bar or do parallettes underneath the squat rack one-legged

    You gained 22 pounds on a 350mg week cycle, your a badass . I wish I can gain 22 pounds in 2 months and stay under 10% body fat you're a lucky guy
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  8. #8
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    well if you want to gain strength only.

    primo
    anavar
    halo
    tbol
    winny is not ideal for you being a boxer, cuzz its hard on joints n tendons.

    add 250 mg test with one or 2 of those dht compounds at high dose.

    id go ; test 250 mg, mast 600 mg and maybe some tbol in front and var on back end

    really though, you should do the same cycle you did just now, it worked, and it worked great.

    steroids are going to build muscle, and from what you said, you had your cycle dialed in perfectly. very conservative dose, short duration, explosive gains with minimal body fat

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    Just finished my first cycle of HGH 5iu/day + 10 weeks of test E @ 350mg/week + HCG during cycle + proper pct.

    I have gained around 22 lbs which is not ideal for me since I do boxing and CrossFit and gaining that much weight will be disadvantage somehow. (my current body fat 8-9%).
    I do CrossFit @ 5am and boxing in the afternoon for 5 days/week. (Rest days: swimming/hiking)

    I have a plan to start my second cycle within 10-12 weeks from now on, and wondering to get some idea what should be my second cycle with minimal dosage to mainly increase my strength + endurance and have little/no impact on my weight.
    22 lbs of lean mass in 10 weeks...? Hmmmmm.....

  10. #10
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    Just saw that you have one kidney... If your weight increase of 22lbs is in fact accurate, then the ONLY possible explanation is that you're holding ~15 lbs of water and since you only have one kidney that actually sounds feasible.

    Growth hormone will make you retain water, so will Test to some degree.. There's no way on God's green earth you gained 22 lbs of muscle in 10 weeks, even half of that is impossible! So the other explanation would be fat gain, but since you're allegedly under 10% bf you clearly didn't gain weight in fat.

    So....something is off here. If an individual gains 5-7 lbs of muscle in 10 weeks I would consider that an EXTREMELY successful cycle. So let's assume you did gain 7 lbs of muscle, that still leaves 15 lbs unaccounted for.

    The only other thing could be water. Are you with me..? So unless your figures are off (which is likely the case) you're holding an extraordinary amount of water. You may want to look in to reducing your sodium and sugar intake, increasing your water intake, and possibly trying a mild diuretic as well. Dandelion root is a natural diuretic and may help you. I'd be careful though being that you're already missing a kidney!
    Last edited by AlphaMindz; 05-22-2018 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    22 lbs of lean mass in 10 weeks...? Hmmmmm.....
    its the equivalent of complaining about having a 10" dick.

    lol
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  12. #12
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    The compounds listed above will focus on strength with the exception of HGH. HGH only builds body tissue (incl. muscle), it doesn't enhance strength. Taking HGH is contrary to the goals you have.

  13. #13
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    You gain muscle by eating in a surplus and training for hypertrophy. Different AAS won't change this but some make you retain much less water. Although it will be very difficult to only gain strength and not gain weight, even though your training may favor strength and power. Otherwise weight classes wouldn't exist.

    With experience you'll learn what scale weight really means and why sometimes you gain a lot but doesn't look like it (and somehow goes away after your cycle or a bulk despite keeping strength gains) while other times a couple pounds and you're stronger and look like you gained more.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    The compounds listed above will focus on strength with the exception of HGH. HGH only builds body tissue (incl. muscle), it doesn't enhance strength. Taking HGH is contrary to the goals you have.
    I'd disagree here it's a misconception but believed by many... The difference is muscle fiber makeup and entrainment of the CNS. Some oral AAS like DHT derivatives do have effects on muscle cells increasing water, sodium/potassium, glucose et.c. but without test or something as a base it is just a temporary effect, just like the conditioning effects of AAS used for bodybuilding contests. With an oral only cycle performance goes up temporarily only to fade off shortly after the cycle...
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  15. #15
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    Increased muscle mass in subjects using AAS has been proposed to result from muscle hypertrophy alone [12] or from both muscle hypertrophy and hyperplasia [38]. Muscle hypertrophy is often evident by increased muscle fiber size and increased number of myonuclei. The latter is associated with satellite cell activation and myoblast infusion with the existing muscle fibers, leading to greater numbers of myonuclei in larger myofibers [39]. In previous studies on subjects with long term AAS supplementation (93.3 years), we observed significant higher frequency of newly formed myofibers in AAS users than in the non-AAS users, indicating that steroid can induce both muscle hypertrophy and hyperplasia [14], [15]. In the present study, long term AAS supplementation was only associated with higher lean leg mass, but not with larger fiber size, indicating that muscle fiber hyperplasia may play a role in the muscle mass enhancement. Coincidently, the number of myonuclei in type I fibers in the doped athletes was significantly higher than in the clean athletes, which may indicate satellite cell activation for muscle fiber hyperplasia.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160183/

    The growth hormone and the IGF and satellite cells will help

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    Run 300mg/wk Test Prop + 300mg/wk of Mast Prop for 8 weeks. Both compounds hold little water and Mast doesn't amortize. Control your salt intake (1500mg/ed or less). You do a ton of cardio based exercise so you should eat 40% of your diet in clean carbs.
    I've red mixed opinions on this

    Some people say the short Esters hold less water and some people say the long Esters hold less water

    What in the shorter Ester hold more water cuz it releases its drug quicker therefore causes more aromatization? I'm not disagreeing I'm just genuinely curious because I prefer to pick compounds that hold less water any insight on this would be great and also helpful to the original poster

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cousinmuscles View Post
    I'd disagree here it's a misconception but believed by many... The difference is muscle fiber makeup and entrainment of the CNS. Some oral AAS like DHT derivatives do have effects on muscle cells increasing water, sodium/potassium, glucose et.c. but without test or something as a base it is just a temporary effect, just like the conditioning effects of AAS used for bodybuilding contests. With an oral only cycle performance goes up temporarily only to fade off shortly after the cycle...
    Cuz,
    We are not in disagreement. I'm not advocating the use of any of those without test. I'm saying that most of them do enhance strength.
    Unless, your saying that the strength increases are temporary. In which case, I wasn't addressing that and thanks for doing so.
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  18. #18
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    You're upset that you gained 22 pounds on cycle and you're still at 8% body fat what the fuck is to be upset about because you can't do CrossFit anymore?

    You should feel good you gained 22 pounds of pure muscle if you're at 8% body fat CrossFit for people who aren't huge the huge guys lift real weights I don't dangle from rubber band from a pull-up bar or do parallettes underneath the squat rack one-legged

    You gained 22 pounds on a 350mg week cycle, your a badass . I wish I can gain 22 pounds in 2 months and stay under 10% body fat you're a lucky guy
    I mainly train crossfit just because to increase my strenght and endurance in boxing and gaining weight means moving up in different weight classes.

  19. #19
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    Just saw that you have one kidney... If your weight increase of 22lbs is in fact accurate, then the ONLY possible explanation is that you're holding ~15 lbs of water and since you only have one kidney that actually sounds feasible.

    Growth hormone will make you retain water, so will Test to some degree.. There's no way on God's green earth you gained 22 lbs of muscle in 10 weeks, even half of that is impossible! So the other explanation would be fat gain, but since you're allegedly under 10% bf you clearly didn't gain weight in fat.

    So....something is off here. If an individual gains 5-7 lbs of muscle in 10 weeks I would consider that an EXTREMELY successful cycle. So let's assume you did gain 7 lbs of muscle, that still leaves 15 lbs unaccounted for.

    The only other thing could be water. Are you with me..? So unless your figures are off (which is likely the case) you're holding an extraordinary amount of water. You may want to look in to reducing your sodium and sugar intake, increasing your water intake, and possibly trying a mild diuretic as well. Dandelion root is a natural diuretic and may help you. I'd be careful though being that you're already missing a kidney!
    I can scan and send a my body composition analysis if it helps, but I'm quite sure that I mainly gain muscle mass. I have really strict diet and already limited my sugar and sodium so don't think it is water.

  20. #20
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cousinmuscles View Post
    You gain muscle by eating in a surplus and training for hypertrophy. Different AAS won't change this but some make you retain much less water. Although it will be very difficult to only gain strength and not gain weight, even though your training may favor strength and power. Otherwise weight classes wouldn't exist.

    With experience you'll learn what scale weight really means and why sometimes you gain a lot but doesn't look like it (and somehow goes away after your cycle or a bulk despite keeping strength gains) while other times a couple pounds and you're stronger and look like you gained more.
    With that said; what do you suggest as a second cycle for retaining less water? and is there any reason some suggest Test P over Test E?

  21. #21
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    well if you want to gain strength only.

    primo
    anavar
    halo
    tbol
    winny is not ideal for you being a boxer, cuzz its hard on joints n tendons.

    add 250 mg test with one or 2 of those dht compounds at high dose.

    id go ; test 250 mg, mast 600 mg and maybe some tbol in front and var on back end

    really though, you should do the same cycle you did just now, it worked, and it worked great.

    steroids are going to build muscle, and from what you said, you had your cycle dialed in perfectly. very conservative dose, short duration, explosive gains with minimal body fat
    I don't really quite get that what do you mean by "tbol infront and var in back" does it mean that if I have a 10 week cycle from week 1-5 go with Tbol and then from then anavar?

    What I'm really looking to have a minimal dosage to increase a little gain so I can take control it and reduce it if necessary but mainly focus on my strength and endurance. Is any of the mentioned AAS have any impact on cardio endurance?

  22. #22
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    Run 300mg/wk Test Prop + 300mg/wk of Mast Prop for 8 weeks. Both compounds hold little water and Mast doesn't amortize. Control your salt intake (1500mg/ed or less). You do a ton of cardio based exercise so you should eat 40% of your diet in clean carbs.
    with your suggested cycle do I really need to run AI along with since you said it wont amortize? and what is the reason of choosing test Prop over test E?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    With that said; what do you suggest as a second cycle for retaining less water? and is there any reason some suggest Test P over Test E?
    Are you planning to compete while on cycle? If not, testosterone is the mildest compound which will yield more gains than AAS used for conditioning/show prep...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    Is there any reason to switch from Test E to Test Prop ? By the way do you think it's a good idea to run 2.5iu HGH along with and continue it for 6 month?
    The main reason is that you're trying to be as lean as possible. The Prop, short ester, will hold less water than Enth, the long ester. As for the HGH, you're young and the gains from the 2.5iu/ed for 6 months probably won't be worth the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    I've red mixed opinions on this

    Some people say the short Esters hold less water and some people say the long Esters hold less water

    What in the shorter Ester hold more water cuz it releases its drug quicker therefore causes more aromatization? I'm not disagreeing I'm just genuinely curious because I prefer to pick compounds that hold less water any insight on this would be great and also helpful to the original poster
    It takes water to break down the ester so the Test can be released into the body. Short esters require less water to break down and so your body retains less water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    with your suggested cycle do I really need to run AI along with since you said it wont amortize? and what is the reason of choosing test Prop over test E?
    300mg/wk of Test will amortize, it's the Mast that won't. For me, I found that anything over 150mg/wk (TRT dose) will increase my E2 to a point where I need an AI. 300mg/wk of Test isn't a ton but it's enough for you to take some AI to control the E2. Don't take too much AI at this Test dose or you'll crash your E2.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    It takes water to break down the ester so the Test can be released into the body. Short esters require less water to break down and so your body retains less water.
    thx.

    so simple I've been searching for THIS answer for 2 years....
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  28. #28
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    The main reason is that you're trying to be as lean as possible. The Prop, short ester, will hold less water than Enth, the long ester. As for the HGH, you're young and the gains from the 2.5iu/ed for 6 months probably won't be worth the money.
    Thanks - I just thought after 30 will be a great time to start using hgh, I also can increase it to 4iu for 4 month. The main reason for me to take hgh to control my body fat and also I have a better recovery/feeling when Im on it.

  29. #29
    Farhad.ganji is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    300mg/wk of Test will amortize, it's the Mast that won't. For me, I found that anything over 150mg/wk (TRT dose) will increase my E2 to a point where I need an AI. 300mg/wk of Test isn't a ton but it's enough for you to take some AI to control the E2. Don't take too much AI at this Test dose or you'll crash your E2.
    With my previous cycle (350 mg/week) I took 6.25 mg aromasin ED . Should I reduce it or the dosage is fine ?!

  30. #30
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    got any pics of this cycle results? I'm very curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    thx.

    so simple I've been searching for THIS answer for 2 years....
    Me too! I guess it happens systemically?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    got any pics of this cycle results? I'm very curious.
    Right now, I just have my body composition analysis after the cycleSecond cycle advice (limiting gaining weight)-after-body-composition.jpg.


    Before starting this cycle my body fat % was 9.8% - I have the full analysis but unfortunately its not in English language.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad.ganji View Post
    With my previous cycle (350 mg/week) I took 6.25 mg aromasin ED . Should I reduce it or the dosage is fine ?!
    For my second cycle I guess I'll go with ScotchGuard02 suggestion " 300mg test prop +300 mg of Mast" So Do i need to to keep the same dosage of AI?
    Last edited by Farhad.ganji; 05-29-2018 at 06:34 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    You're upset that you gained 22 pounds on cycle and you're still at 8% body fat what the fuck is to be upset about because you can't do CrossFit anymore?

    You should feel good you gained 22 pounds of pure muscle if you're at 8% body fat CrossFit for people who aren't huge the huge guys lift real weights I don't dangle from rubber band from a pull-up bar or do parallettes underneath the squat rack one-legged

    You gained 22 pounds on a 350mg week cycle, your a badass . I wish I can gain 22 pounds in 2 months and stay under 10% body fat you're a lucky guy
    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    its the equivalent of complaining about having a 10" dick.

    lol
    Hahah!

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