Please clarify some info I got

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-30-2018, 03:26 PM

I got a name, for what I thought was going to be a local source, turned out it was a guy who was fucking huge and recommended me his TRT doc

He said that a T level of 800-1000 was good, I thought normal range was 400ish-1000ish naturally. Wouldn't you want it closer to 1200-1500?
He said clomid can shut you down (I thought it was supposed to help get your levels back to normal during PCT) and recommended Nolvadex instead. But I thought Nolvadex was an AI.

Recap:
-Do people not go to TRT doc for scripts for cycles?
-What should T levels be during a cycle?
-Does clomid actually shut you down?

Could someone please clear up some of my confusion

**cousinmuscles** · 05-30-2018, 03:49 PM

Clomid is not suppressive, it stimulates natural testosterone production.

1200-1500 ng/dl, it may raise your estrogen too high and will thicken your blood over time, why try to manage these issues when you'll feel the same at 800.

T levels on a 5-600mg cycle will be 3-4000 ng/dl when it has built up in your system, could be higher or lower as this depends on how long after the last injection you tested, if your gear is correctly dosed et.c.

A doc shouldn't prescribe you cycle dosages, thats nuts. But if you can get pharmaceutical grade testosterone, more power to you. Read the stickies though just in case you end up getting dangerous advice from people who have gotten things backwards...

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-30-2018, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

Clomid is not suppressive, it stimulates natural testosterone production.

1200-1500 ng/dl, it may raise your estrogen too high and will thicken your blood over time, why try to manage these issues when you'll feel the same at 800.

T levels on a 5-600mg cycle will be 3-4000 ng/dl when it has built up in your system, could be higher or lower as this depends on how long after the last injection you tested, if your gear is correctly dosed et.c.

A doc shouldn't prescribe you cycle dosages, thats nuts. But if you can get pharmaceutical grade testosterone, more power to you. Read the stickies though just in case you end up getting dangerous advice from people who have gotten things backwards...

Thanks for taking the time to respond Cousin
So is there even any point in cycling if you can get on a TRT program and always have your levels around 800-1000?

**David LoPan** · 05-30-2018, 06:16 PM

Why would you want TRT with those Test numbers?

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-30-2018, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by David LoPan

Why would you want TRT with those Test numbers?

What numbers do you want to aim for in order to maximize gains?

**Couchlockd** · 05-30-2018, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

What numbers do you want to aim for in order to maximize gains?

The thing is as cousin muscle said, there's really no difference in muscle building between a 800 and a 1500 level

I mean if you're talking about getting the most gains you possibly could you would want your levels to be around 5,000 but that comes with a host of side effects and you will not bounce back and be able to produce an 800 level naturally after some kind of last like that

Basically a 1500 level is like a super Natty it's not anything close to being enhanced like 5000 is

To maximize natural games I would like to be around 800 to 1000 but I'm not I'm 300 and honestly I did pretty good most of my life at a low testosterone level but mind you I'm 35 years old too and I have less risks to my health than someone who's Young

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-31-2018, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle

The thing is as cousin muscle said, there's really no difference in muscle building between a 800 and a 1500 level

I mean if you're talking about getting the most gains you possibly could you would want your levels to be around 5,000 but that comes with a host of side effects and you will not bounce back and be able to produce an 800 level naturally after some kind of last like that

Basically a 1500 level is like a super Natty it's not anything close to being enhanced like 5000 is

To maximize natural games I would like to be around 800 to 1000 but I'm not I'm 300 and honestly I did pretty good most of my life at a low testosterone level but mind you I'm 35 years old too and I have less risks to my health than someone who's Young

Yeah Im in the mid 400s. But I feel tired, weak, and 0 libido all the tiiiime. Gotta make some changes

**Couchlockd** · 05-31-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

Yeah Im in the mid 400s. But I feel tired, weak, and 0 libido all the tiiiime. Gotta make some changes

how old are you.?

do you work out at all?

**cousinmuscles** · 05-31-2018, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

Yeah Im in the mid 400s. But I feel tired, weak, and 0 libido all the tiiiime. Gotta make some changes

Mid 400s isn't that low but I was a bit below 400 and had many issues with recovery, sleep, but no issues with libido. I ended up on TRT after a cycle and my life has improved. Though in this regard as m.hornbuckle said TRT is TRT, not a bodybuilding enhancement protocol. 1200-1500 will not really enhance you that way. A cycle dosage of 500mg test per week will. But this brings side effects so once you are done, you want to go back to normal levels to let things stabilize and let your body recover.

Honestly it is best you try and figure out the cause of your issues first as it may not be solved by TRT or another solution exists where you don't end up relying on testosterone injections. Naturally produced test is much better as our bodies produce hundreds of hormones all being balanced by each other...

**Chrisp83TRT** · 05-31-2018, 04:04 PM

Horn what’s your TRT dosage ? I’m the same age as you and just curious where your levels are at ?

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-31-2018, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle

how old are you.?

do you work out at all?

31, 5 days / week

**HoldMyBeer** · 05-31-2018, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

Mid 400s isn't that low but I was a bit below 400 and had many issues with recovery, sleep, but no issues with libido. I ended up on TRT after a cycle and my life has improved. Though in this regard as m.hornbuckle said TRT is TRT, not a bodybuilding enhancement protocol. 1200-1500 will not really enhance you that way. A cycle dosage of 500mg test per week will. But this brings side effects so once you are done, you want to go back to normal levels to let things stabilize and let your body recover.

Honestly it is best you try and figure out the cause of your issues first as it may not be solved by TRT or another solution exists where you don't end up relying on testosterone injections. Naturally produced test is much better as our bodies produce hundreds of hormones all being balanced by each other...

I agree about the natural levels. I think my biggest problem is, I was in the mid 500s, but still had the same symptoms (checked thyroid and about of a dozen other things) so my PCP decided to try Androgel . Which cured all of my ailments (this was before I started researching anything about steroids ). I should have done my research instead of just trusting him, though it was me who suggested we try it. He is not even a specialist. My levels went up to mid 800s, but about 6 months later it wasn't working as well, and my testis started to get smaller. I asked the doc about it and he told me to stop taking it cold turkey, not PCT or anything. Levels are now in the mid 400s, and I feel worse than I did before.

IDK what I am going to do. Im a mess. I am trying to avoid test altogether. I am taking some questionable mk2866 and rad140 because I want to be bigger, stronger, better. But I feel like that is a reach. I really dont want to be dependent on a chemical but I just feel like shit every day (bigger, stronger, lower body-fat arguably more importantly depending on which day you ask me). Seems like all roads point to chemical assistance unfortunately.

**Couchlockd** · 05-31-2018, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

Horn what’s your TRT dosage ? I’m the same age as you and just curious where your levels are at ?

well I was "given trt" 2 years ago (384ng) the Dr. wanted to do 200 mg 1x a month for3 months and then take bloods.

well I came here and saw that was not correct.

I took that script for watson test, and used it firmly first cycle.

I did pct after a 15 week cycle. took bloods 8 months later, (8 months after pct) and was 436ng.

so I've never actually ran trt dose yet, but after this blast, I will go 80 mg 2x a week.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 05-31-2018, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle

well I was "given trt" 2 years ago (384ng) the Dr. wanted to do 200 mg 1x a month for3 months and then take bloods.

well I came here and saw that was not correct.

I took that script for watson test, and used it firmly first cycle.

I did pct after a 15 week cycle. took bloods 8 months later, (8 months after pct) and was 436ng.

so I've never actually ran trt dose yet, but after this blast, I will go 80 mg 2x a week.

200mg once a month ?!? Wtf was this doctor thinking ? Trying to put you in a depression.
Yeah I’m on 75mg twice a week I assume for life.

**HoldMyBeer** · 06-01-2018, 11:42 AM

Alright got an appointment with the TRT doc. I read mk2866 may drop T levels a bit, but rad140 may raise them a bit
I am thinking stop the rad140 a few days before right?

**cousinmuscles** · 06-01-2018, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

Alright got an appointment with the TRT doc. I read mk2866 may drop T levels a bit, but rad140 may raise them a bit
I am thinking stop the rad140 a few days before right?

If you want to skew results you'll have to try much harder than that. Drink lots of booze, no sleep, 100g sugar an hour before, eat licorice daily for a couple days before etc. Remember you are playing with fire and the decision is for life, if you regret this or stop using AAS and wish to be natural again a year later, your chances may be completely gone, and you may have been able to solve your libido issues without TRT!

**HoldMyBeer** · 06-01-2018, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

If you want to skew results you'll have to try much harder than that. Drink lots of booze, no sleep, 100g sugar an hour before, eat licorice daily for a couple days before etc. Remember you are playing with fire and the decision is for life, if you regret this or stop using AAS and wish to be natural again a year later, your chances may be completely gone, and you may have been able to solve your libido issues without TRT!

Yeah, thats a good point. Dudes supposed to be cool anyways, may not even be necessary.
Solve libido issues without TRT... Dump girlfriend and get a hotter one?
JK, yeah I looked into a lot of things consulting my PCP, nothing worked. He offered to write me a script for for the libido issue, but I dont want to have to take a pill at 31, should just be there. Ive just been living with it for a while now. Kinda sucks. And I got a ton a shit on my plate RN, I dont want to be feeling tired and weak with no drive during it. I think it is time to make a change.

**HoldMyBeer** · 06-01-2018, 05:56 PM

First of all, I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions Cousins.
I am assuming that just doing cycles instead of TRT will fry my ability to naturally produce just as bad as TRT correct?

**cousinmuscles** · 06-02-2018, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

First of all, I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions Cousins.
I am assuming that just doing cycles instead of TRT will fry my ability to naturally produce just as bad as TRT correct?

No problem,

Even 25mg test per week will shut you down. From what I know the longer you are shut down the more difficult becomes recovery. For the HPTA shutdown is equal since it is all done by the exogenous hormone telling it to stop working. Whether higher dosages can cause other damage perhaps to the testicles I don't know.

**almostgone** · 06-02-2018, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

Yeah Im in the mid 400s. But I feel tired, weak, and 0 libido all the tiiiime. Gotta make some changes

You need to know your free T levels, E2 levels, and SHBG levels. Total T can be upper end of the the range, but if it is aromatizing to E2 or your SHBG is at the high end, your free T can be bottom end.
Free T is what does the work.
Visit out TRT forum, pull relevant labs, and post up in there.

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...nt-anti-aging/