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Thread: Possible high e2?

  1. #1
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Possible high e2?

    Long time lurker, first real post and such. Hi!
    So im about 6 weeks through my first cycle. Planning on 16 weeks.

    T 3 s t E n t h at 300 e 3 d
    A v r 25x2 ed first 6 wks (done with that on Wednesday)


    Have exem for ai, and tamo for pct.


    First cycle bloods pulled at 3.5 weeks


    At this point i was taking ex 12.5mg eod, but stopped because I felt e2 might have been crashing. And I had read a few places around here and elsewhere saying it was a good thing to have elevated e2, for growth, and if you arent gynoing dont worry about it.
    Feeling strong most days, have added nearly a plate to bench, dead, squat.


    So onto where we sit today. Resting heart rate has gone up a bit the past week 70 to 77, bp up a little + ~ 10 each to 95/150. Feeling hotter than usual, tho i run hot af all the time anyways. Today i noticed my nipples were a little more erect than usual, like bigger at the gym in the mirror. But not looking like gyno as far as fat behind them, like just hard and sensitive. I got light headed and weak towards end of workout, but that also could have been that i didnt eat enough. (only a bowl of cereal before pulling heavy and some cardio) So I have taken 12.5 ex today and yesterday. Planning on pulling bloods tmrw through private MD labs. My local lab is super close and convenient.


    So questions,


    1. To AI or not?


    2. Should I order the same test? It was Hormone Panel with F&T Testosterone LC / MS-MS under the bodybuilding section, or something more for estrogen?


    3. If e2 isnt high, what else could be going on?


    Thanks for reading!
    Last edited by nightmareocyk; 08-04-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #2
    i_SLAM_cougars's Avatar
    i_SLAM_cougars is offline Senior Member
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    Why do you think your E2 is high? Got sore nips?

    also, welcome to the forum!
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  3. #3
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    sorry for the crazy formating, everything i was doing kept getting flagged for spam. And thanks!
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  4. #4
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    First cycle bloods pulled at 3.5 weeks
    Testosterone , Total, LC/MS 2663.4 HIGH 264.0-916.0 ng/dL
    Estradiol 33.2 NORMAL 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
    LH <0.2 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
    FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL

  5. #5
    cylon357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmareocyk View Post
    sorry for the crazy formating, everything i was doing kept getting flagged for spam. And thanks!
    Ah, that's what was going on. I was thinking 'you know, you do not have to speak in code HERE' lol

  6. #6
    Charlie67's Avatar
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    If I'm reading all this right, you took bloods at 3.5 weeks and your E was in the normal range. But then you dropped your AI? And now it's 3 weeks later with no AI. So your 6 weeks into a 16 well cycle, Is that right?

    Do you know what your BF % is? I only ask because if you're carrying a little bit of abdominal fat you're likely we converting at a bit higher rate then you realize. From what you say, it seems like your estrogen has gone back up... But also you could be retaining a lot of water. I would be if I was taking 600T with no AI. New bloods is the only way to know for sure.

    What to do? Well, how do you feel? You seem to be getting stronger... You probably look bigger... Can you deal with the puffy nipples? If so, maybe consider just a carrying on. Or, since you know you WERE taking the right amount of AI (because your bloods were normal), go back on AI as you mentioned you had. it really comes down to how you feel. I'd keep an eye on your blood pressure, if you feel like you're retaining water, that could add to it... But that's an awfully high blood pressure. Hopefully it was just a fluke reading.

    This is your first cycle, so I'd keep running only the Test... But you could add a little Masteron to alleviate some of the nipple stuff If you chose not to run an AI.

    If you want someone to tell you what to do... I would tell you to get new blood work which will tell you (for future cycles) how much 600 Test effects your E. and If you can deal with the side effects at your given estrogen level, do it. If you're really uncomfortable, add a small amount of AI and bring it down a bit.

    Please do your own research, and make the decision you feel is best for you. Don't listen to me or anyone else who you've never met, lol.

    Best of luck,
    C-
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  7. #7
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Ah, that's what was going on. I was thinking 'you know, you do not have to speak in code HERE' lol
    Yeah man, it was frustrating. Had it typed out all nice, then had to mangle it all up to beat the spam filter. Gotta get to 25 post ASAP!


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  8. #8
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie67 View Post
    If I'm reading all this right, you took bloods at 3.5 weeks and your E was in the normal range. But then you dropped your AI? And now it's 3 weeks later with no AI. So your 6 weeks into a 16 well cycle, Is that right?
    Yeah, like i said, was running AI but dropped it cause i felt like i was low. Then kinda decided to just run without, see if i was sensitive. Iím just unsure if ai was hindering my gains in the beginning keeping e so low.

    Bf is up around 25, i know i know, high. Ive battled it my whole life, despite being active physically all the time. (Manual labor job and gym for years) Been dropping weight this year, but wanted to add a lil muscle and start cutting more fat after cycle. It gets old plateauing for months while dieting lol. Plus side is i have always managed to hold onto most muscle while losing weight. I was 240 pre cycle, 250 now. Have been between 210-290 in my adult life. Lost 25 of fat this year. 225 lbs kinda lean is my goal eventually.

    Iíll have to see what it all looks like after bloods are back, was planning on pulling mid cycle anyway! What package do you guys like ordering from privatelabsmd? I got that one mentioned above before, but was unsure if it had all i needed?

    Thanks!


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  9. #9
    Charlie67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmareocyk View Post
    Iíll have to see what it all looks like after bloods are back, was planning on pulling mid cycle anyway! What package do you guys like ordering from privatelabsmd? I got that one mentioned above before, but was unsure if it had all i needed?
    I don't use privatelabs, I use labsMD, but they're pretty much the same. You'll get a lot of opinions on "must have" labs, and you can go crazy on blood work... In my opinion, for your first cycle, what you really want to know MID-CYCLE is if your gear is legit and what your estrogen does, and hematocrit level. In the long run, you'll want to keep tabs on lipids and general health markers like you'd get at a physical from your doctor, and to work out recovery post-cycle.

    What you got is ok (assuming it's a female hormone panel or similar), it tells you total test. Ideally you would add a Ultra sensitive Estradiol. The normal Estradiol can be off for men, I'm not sure it's a big enough difference to matter all that much, maybe someone else will chime in.

    Best of luck,
    C-
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  10. #10
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Thank you for the response. Ive read about getting a sensitive estrogen. The one i got at 3.5 weeks just has a regular estrogen, but includes everything else you mentioned. (Id post a link but cant because im under the post count) I did pull pre cycle, bit it was from my primary and in a different format.

    Thanks again!


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  11. #11
    DeeCee112's Avatar
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    If your allowing your estrogen to run high your nips will be a little more sensitive and harder, this doesn't necessarily mean your headed for gyno.

    Few options: return to no AI and keep an eye out, half the AI dosage or switch to a low dose of Nolva if you want to reap the benefits of estrogen AND prevent gyno. This won't help water retention or blood pressure rises or any other estrogen related sides but if they were good anyway then no worries.
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  12. #12
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    If your test was 2600 and your E2 was 33 that’s honestly too low imo. I myself would let it get a tad higher, that “in range “ bullshit is for someone with natural test levels....not 2600 lol i think u will be fine it wouldnt hurt to pull bloods 3 weeks later after u back off ur ai some
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  13. #13
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    If your allowing your estrogen to run high your nips will be a little more sensitive and harder, this doesn't necessarily mean your headed for gyno.

    Few options: return to no AI and keep an eye out, half the AI dosage or switch to a low dose of Nolva if you want to reap the benefits of estrogen AND prevent gyno. This won't help water retention or blood pressure rises or any other estrogen related sides but if they were good anyway then no worries.
    Yeah, i think ill try running 12.5 ex e3d, on pin days. Or maybe on the day after since the t e s t would be highest in my system then? Ive read about using Nolva, but like all things internet forums, people are all over the place about it lol. Thatís honestly been one of the hardest parts about learning about this stuff! I do take some sups to combat water retention, so maybe its worth a shot. Thank you for your input.


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  14. #14
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    If your test was 2600 and your E2 was 33 thatís honestly too low imo. I myself would let it get a tad higher, that ďin range ď bullshit is for someone with natural test levels....not 2600 lol i think u will be fine it wouldnt hurt to pull bloods 3 weeks later after u back off ur ai some
    This is also the train of thought i was on when i cut Ai. Like if your test is 3-4 times ďnormalĒ, then it would make sense to run higher estrogen too? As long as you arent gynoing. My joints are a weak point so i def like estrogen for that... Thank you for your response.


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  15. #15
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    if your on cycle and your trying to put on size, then your E2 is supposed to be high . 'normal' ranges of E2 on a blood test were developed for 'normal' people , not steriod users. the range does not apply to you while your on cycle (thats a mistake a lot of guys make)
    heck bodybuilders will purposely take female birth control pills while on cycle just to try and elevate estrogen levels as high as possible . so I wouldn't even bother to check estrogen levels or worry about them one bit while on cycle (unless your genetically prone to gyno or estrogen sensitivity)
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  16. #16
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    and keep in mind guys that gyno is a genetic condition that your either pre disposed to or not. you can't just suddenly get gyno cause your E levels are elevated unless your genetically pre disposed to gyno.. I can take 2000mg of test per week with 50mg of Dbol a day with no AI and not even get a sensitive nip. where as someone else can take 300mg of test and end up getting gyno .
    the answer for those guys who are gyno prone is not to take AI's, as they are not meant to prevent gyno, the answer is simply NOT to cycle with compounds that aromatize in the first place
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  17. #17
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    if your on cycle and your trying to put on size, then your E2 is supposed to be high . 'normal' ranges of E2 on a blood test were developed for 'normal' people , not steriod users. the range does not apply to you while your on cycle (thats a mistake a lot of guys make)
    heck bodybuilders will purposely take female birth control pills while on cycle just to try and elevate estrogen levels as high as possible . so I wouldn't even bother to check estrogen levels or worry about them one bit while on cycle (unless your genetically prone to gyno or estrogen sensitivity)
    Yeah, that makes sense. Iíve seen you mention the birth control thing before, crazy! I dont think that im gyno prone, ive been pretty big at points in my life and still kept a leaner chest. Still am pulling mid cycle just to see how things look after the var. Thank you for the input!


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  18. #18
    nightmareocyk is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    and keep in mind guys that gyno is a genetic condition that your either pre disposed to or not. you can't just suddenly get gyno cause your E levels are elevated unless your genetically pre disposed to gyno.. I can take 2000mg of test per week with 50mg of Dbol a day with no AI and not even get a sensitive nip. where as someone else can take 300mg of test and end up getting gyno .
    the answer for those guys who are gyno prone is not to take AI's, as they are not meant to prevent gyno, the answer is simply NOT to cycle with compounds that aromatize in the first place
    In the future i do want to run lower test with another non or low aromatizing formula. Its just i went with the test only first cycle most people seem to recommend. I look forward to the experience after seeing the possibilities...


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