Test P / Winstrol Cycle - Thoughts?

[Natedawg75]

I currently take Triamterene 37.5 mg / HCTZ 25mg tabs x 1 /day. BP stays at around 118/72
My diet will be solid. Lean diet and plenty of fish, no red meat, grilled chicken, Omega 3, Oats, Almonds, Black Beans, Avocado, Strawberries, Grapes, Apples, Oranges, Watermelon, Garlic, Carrots, Salads, NO SAT FAT or SUGAR, Pomegranate Juice, Turmeric - etc. I eat very clean.
1500 calorie diet per day
100 ounces of water per day

43 years old, 200lbs, 5' 8". No heart/liver/kidney issues. Good cholesterol scores. I am on Test Replacement Therapy. My Rx per week is .4ml x 3 per week Monday, Wednesday, Friday subcutaneous plus taking 1mg tablet per week of Anastrozole

Goals: Add some moderate bulking, increase strength, definition, and add some serious cutting.

Cycle:
Weeks 1-10: 500mg per injection x 2 per week Tuesday, Friday intramuscular, Testosterone Propionate
Weeks 5-10: 30mg/ day tablet, Winstrol tablet

PCT:
Week 12 - 17: 40mg / day tablet, Nolvadex .

My questions:

Reminder: My normal Rx, I am currently taking HCG /B12 .4ml x 3 per week Monday, Wednesday, Friday subcutaneous injection & 1mg per week tablet of Anastrozole (1 tab per week).

1. How and when do I take HCG and Anastrozole?
2. After PCT, do I just resume my normal Rx?

Thanks for the help and advice!

[Natedawg75]

Body fat 10%

[Wannabhuge14]

I currently take Triamterene 37.5 mg / HCTZ 25mg tabs x 1 /day. BP stays at around 118/72
My diet will be solid. Lean diet and plenty of fish, no red meat, grilled chicken, Omega 3, Oats, Almonds, Black Beans, Avocado, Strawberries, Grapes, Apples, Oranges, Watermelon, Garlic, Carrots, Salads, NO SAT FAT or SUGAR, Pomegranate Juice, Turmeric - etc. I eat very clean.
1500 calorie diet per day
100 ounces of water per day

43 years old, 200lbs, 5' 8". No heart/liver/kidney issues. Good cholesterol scores. I am on Test Replacement Therapy. My Rx per week is .4ml x 3 per week Monday, Wednesday, Friday subcutaneous plus taking 1mg tablet per week of Anastrozole

Goals: Add some moderate bulking, increase strength, definition, and add some serious cutting.

Cycle:
Weeks 1-10: 500mg per injection x 2 per week Tuesday, Friday intramuscular, Testosterone Propionate
Weeks 5-10: 30mg/ day tablet, Winstrol tablet

PCT:
Week 12 - 17: 40mg / day tablet, Nolvadex .

My questions:

Reminder: My normal Rx, I am currently taking HCG /B12 .4ml x 3 per week Monday, Wednesday, Friday subcutaneous injection & 1mg per week tablet of Anastrozole (1 tab per week).

1. How and when do I take HCG and Anastrozole?
2. After PCT, do I just resume my normal Rx?

Thanks for the help and advice!

1500 calories seems very low to me. Being that your already 10% body fat, how much lower could you possibly want to go?

Your goals don’t really run concurrent with one another. At 1500 calories you aren’t going to be adding any muscle and you will most likely feel lethargic 24/7 so your strength is going to go down, not up.

There is no reason to do pct since you are on trt. Pct is for guys trying to recover natural test levels.

Test propionate needs to be infected ed or eod at the very minimum to keep your levels stable. You are most likely not going to need the anastrozole so I’d hide that on your back shelf and forget about it.

Doesn’t really seem like you have much of an understanding of cycling basics so I’d be doing more research before jumping into something serious. Best of luck to you.

[CALLMEOCT]

Test Prop should be injected EoD or ED; not twice a week. You may want to reconsider and go with Test Enth. Also; Test Prop usually comes dosed at 100mg per ML; 500mg would probably require a full syringe and i doubt anyone rational would inject 500mg of prop in one single shot; oh man the pip...

Also.. 1500 Calories?! Man; my girlfriend Cutting eats more than that!!

[Windex]

Need to research more.

Diet is quite poor. No reason a 62 year old women should be eating more calories than you.

If you are actually 200 lbs 10% body fat eating like that then you should be qualifying for the olympia in 6 months.

Smells like a troll - been a lot lately.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Need to research more.

Diet is quite poor. No reason a 62 year old women should be eating more calories than you.

If you are actually 200 lbs 10% body fat eating like that then you should be qualifying for the olympia in 6 months.

Smells like a troll - been a lot lately.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw it listed as ml as opposed to mg . Eating lots of oranges and 1500 calories a day . That is a weight watchers weight loss target ........ lol , I thought from what I learned backpacking it takes 1500 calories a day to prevent the body from eating it's own muscle ...........

Then switch when listing protocol at 500mg of prop 2 x's a week .

I even noticed this as a bit off the chain in a bad way .

So it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks . Just maybe I have gained a little and I did say a little knowledge here and there .......... You young guys are just to smart . lol !

[Natedawg75]

Hey...newbie. I’ll do my research...not a problem. Originally wanted to go Test E but wanted the shorter ester. As far as diet, I am more of a triathlete so I’m more use to that diet as opposed to what your body builder eats calorie wise. And honestly, transparently, I really struggle with eating a lot. So you got jokes...cool. Got any wisdom or guidance? I can switch to Test E. I can up my calories. What else?

[Natedawg75]

So, after reading, looks like I should start my HCG back maybe during the last 2 weeks of cycle and continue usage. Use Anastrozole after my cycle ends and maybe use Nova for at least 4 weeks after cycle to help balance - again using Test E instead of Prop.

Diet probably needs to be ~2600/day?

Hey not a troll...just looking for someone who is knowledgeable to help point a new guy in the right direction. We were all new once right?

[Wannabhuge14]

So, after reading, looks like I should start my HCG back maybe during the last 2 weeks of cycle and continue usage. Use Anastrozole after my cycle ends and maybe use Nova for at least 4 weeks after cycle to help balance - again using Test E instead of Prop.

Diet probably needs to be ~2600/day?

Hey not a troll...just looking for someone who is knowledgeable to help point a new guy in the right direction. We were all new once right?

Hcg is used starting with your first injection. The whole idea is to keep your balls pumping and not letting them turn off...If you don’t want kids then it’s not really such a necessary thing. Again toss the anastrozole in the trash, it’s not even a pct item, that’s usually done with clomid and nolvadex and nothing else.

[CALLMEOCT]

So, after reading, looks like I should start my HCG back maybe during the last 2 weeks of cycle and continue usage. Use Anastrozole after my cycle ends and maybe use Nova for at least 4 weeks after cycle to help balance - again using Test E instead of Prop.

Diet probably needs to be ~2600/day?

Hey not a troll...just looking for someone who is knowledgeable to help point a new guy in the right direction. We were all new once right?

Cycle Length 12 Weeks
WEEK 1 to 12 Test E 250 - 250 twice a week.
MK677 25mg Dosed once a day throughout the Cycle.

Winstrol 50mg WEEK 9 up to PCT

PCT - 14 days after Last injection of Test E
4 Weeks PCT as described
Clomid 50 25mg 25mg -
Nolvadex 40mg 20mg 20mg 20mg

Supplements
Fish Oil
Liver Support (NAC; TUDCA...)

Diet Wise; i'd aim for at least 2600Calories; and thats at least; and would take care of a decent amount of protein intake.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Cycle Length 12 Weeks
WEEK 1 to 12 Test E 250 - 250 twice a week.
MK677 25mg Dosed once a day throughout the Cycle.

Winstrol 50mg WEEK 9 up to PCT

PCT - 14 days after Last injection of Test E
4 Weeks PCT as described
Clomid 50 25mg 25mg -
Nolvadex 40mg 20mg 20mg 20mg

Supplements
Fish Oil
Liver Support (NAC; TUDCA...)

Diet Wise; i'd aim for at least 2600Calories; and thats at least; and would take care of a decent amount of protein intake.

I am an old fart and I like Test Cypionate better that Test E I see better results and less fluid retention and the Test E will take longer to get out of system at the end and will linger into PCT . I did not see that the newbie even has considered a PCT .

Why would a tri athlete only eat 1500 calories a day ? WTF you should burn as many if not more than any beginning lifter and I think 2500 calories of the right food would be a stretch to gain any mass of noticable amount ...... My 60 year old ass takes in 4000 calories when bulking and I have almost zero metabolism ................. so IMHO this young man need to hit the nutrition section before he even considers a cycle and 1500 calories a day sounds like a joke for a tri athlete ............ Is a full Triathlon not an event that has running , swimming , and biking ....... like the max of a cardio w/o ..... WTF just backpacking we burn 800 to 1100 calories an hour and we have to stop to eat and get to eat all the food from the shit food isle in the grocery store I mean If I a 60 year old backpacker needs 7000 calories a day how could a real triathlete only eat 1500 calories a day > I am stumped ...... I am not the smartest tool in the shed but 1500 calories a day sounds like what a girl would eat as a gymnast . I still wonder if this post is not from a troll



If it is 1st cycle and this newbie can learn to eat 3 x's as much = 4500 calories a day his 1st cycle should be so simple with no stack at all .
Only 2 pins a week and .25mg of Astrosonal - Arimidex I get 30mg a mth from my Dr.

1) Basic that you have not educated on yet is Blood Work
2) Do one ml Test Cypionate which = 200mg every 3 days
3) If U have no AI then 1/2 ml = 100mg EOD this should elevate the need for AI
3) The day after take .25mg of Astrosonal


One last question are you over the age of 30 . I am 60 an these young guys teach me so much ! You gotta read and learn Gear is not dangerous if done correctly and with good nutrition . I started at 19 and had to get my Mammary glands removed at the age of 27 so read and educate before you medicate

[Natedawg75]

CALLMEOCT - You helped me and read my question / understood the question and stayed on point. I could have been more clear and next time will be more clear on information along with doing more research. As a newbie there is so much information and its at times an overload of information. Thanks for being patient

Old fart from N GA - I have respect for you. I'm sure you have forgotten more than I know. I was at a 1500 calorie diet per day because I once weighed 245 and needed to drop weight. I could have been more clear about those details. Your absolutely right about a tri ath needing more than 1500 calories. I didn't want to be transparent about my fat issues. Still don't. I'll take your advise on hitting the nutrition section. Who knows, maybe one day we can have a beer. Im in Chatt. I didnt realize that Test C has better results than E with less fluid retention - that's something that would be helpful to me as I do not need to retain too much fluid. So I guess an old dog taught a new dog something.

[JaneDoe]

Goals: Add some moderate bulking, increase strength, definition, and add some serious cutting.

In my opinion, you should not start a 1500 kcal diet a day. Why ?
It will induce your metabolism rate to decrease, which will prevent the burning of body fat !!

If it were you, I'd start this plan with your maintenance calories (TDEE) and cut 200 kcal in the first week. And in the following weeks, between 200 and 500 kcal per day. So keep your weight loss between 700 grams and 1 kg of your body weight per week!
And if you find out, for example, that you are losing less than 700 grams to 1 kg per week (your calorie deficit would need to be adjusted down). And if you realized that you are losing more than 1 kg of body weight per week, it is a sign that you would have to adjust your calories to prevent muscle loss by increasing your calories up !!

Cycle:
Weeks 1-10: 500mg per injection x 2 per week Tuesday, Friday intramuscular, Testosterone Propionate
Weeks 5-10: 30mg/ day tablet, Winstrol tablet

PCT:
Week 12 - 17: 40mg / day tablet, Nolvadex .

Many experienced members here of the forum indicate taking HCG during the cycle, brother.
Why ?
The HPTA axis shuts off during the cycle and not after it!
Implementing 250 ui HCG twice a week prevents you from shutting down!

Well, I see you giving a high dose of AI (1 mg anastrozole in the cycle)

If you need AI, it would be a quarter of the 0.25 pill taken every two)
But let me point out, you have better options than implementing Anastrozol right away !!

A serm like Nolvadex blocks estrogen receptors, unlike Anastro, which inhibits ..- Nolvadex may be responsible for the use of testosterone propionate in the cycle !!! Winstrol is not estrogenic. This anabolic steroid does not aromatize, preventing the estrogenic side effects of Winstrol ...

(Nolvadex is commonly used at a dose of 10 mg throughout the cycle!

And let me tell you, your PCT will be better if you include Nolvadex and Clomid together, they work in synergy.

PCT should start 3 days after last testosterone propionate application


PCT SERMS
Many forum gurus claim that Nolvadex and Clomid enter competition mode. Nolvadex does more for LH and Clomid for FSH !!
In other words, both together will improve your recovery.

You should do 4 weeks of PCT SERM:

Nolvadex: 40mg / 40mg / 20mg / 20mg

Clomid
100mg / 50mg / 50mg / 50mg

Some men add 2 more weeks of just 20 mg of Nolvadex in some cases. But this is not necessary.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

In my opinion, you should not start a 1500 kcal diet a day. Why ?
It will induce your metabolism rate to decrease, which will prevent the burning of body fat !!

If it were you, I'd start this plan with your maintenance calories (TDEE) and cut 200 kcal in the first week. And in the following weeks, between 200 and 500 kcal per day. So keep your weight loss between 700 grams and 1 kg of your body weight per week!
And if you find out, for example, that you are losing less than 700 grams to 1 kg per week (your calorie deficit would need to be adjusted down). And if you realized that you are losing more than 1 kg of body weight per week, it is a sign that you would have to adjust your calories to prevent muscle loss by increasing your calories up !!





Many experienced members here of the forum indicate taking HCG during the cycle, brother.
Why ?
The HPTA axis shuts off during the cycle and not after it!
Implementing 250 ui HCG twice a week prevents you from shutting down!

Well, I see you giving a high dose of AI (1 mg anastrozole in the cycle)

If you need AI, it would be a quarter of the 0.25 pill taken every two)
But let me point out, you have better options than implementing Anastrozol right away !!

A serm like Nolvadex blocks estrogen receptors, unlike Anastro, which inhibits ..- Nolvadex may be responsible for the use of testosterone propionate in the cycle !!! Winstrol is not estrogenic. This anabolic steroid does not aromatize, preventing the estrogenic side effects of Winstrol ...

(Nolvadex is commonly used at a dose of 10 mg throughout the cycle!

And let me tell you, your PCT will be better if you include Nolvadex and Clomid together, they work in synergy.

PCT should start 3 days after last testosterone propionate application


PCT SERMS
Many forum gurus claim that Nolvadex and Clomid enter competition mode. Nolvadex does more for LH and Clomid for FSH !!
In other words, both together will improve your recovery.

You should do 4 weeks of PCT SERM:

Nolvadex: 40mg / 40mg / 20mg / 20mg

Clomid
100mg / 50mg / 50mg / 50mg

Some men add 2 more weeks of just 20 mg of Nolvadex in some cases. But this is not necessary.

Also look at Proviron (Read about it in this forums section that describes different compounds) as a form of Ai with benefits way above many popular ones .

Hey Newbie I am up through Choo Choo all the time for a while anyway .... Backpacking in the fall and spring . Hope to be moving to the Panhandle of FL before Christmas ............ Signal Mtn has some pretty wild parties I have attended ! May ride up that way Sun with my GF just because it is a short trip and fun place to go !

Hey Old Fart is a status that should be desired (Eventually anyway) ! The altertinitive is not so good IMHO !

[JaneDoe]

Also look at Proviron (Read about it in this forums section that describes different compounds) as a form of Ai with benefits way above many popular ones .

Hey Newbie I am up through Choo Choo all the time for a while anyway .... Backpacking in the fall and spring . Hope to be moving to the Panhandle of FL before Christmas ............ Signal Mtn has some pretty wild parties I have attended ! May ride up that way Sun with my GF just because it is a short trip and fun place to go !

Hey Old Fart is a status that should be desired (Eventually anyway) ! The altertinitive is not so good IMHO !

This is not new here in the forum !!!

GeadHead already told me about the effect of Proviron, Masteron .. as anti-estrogen.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Also look at Proviron (Read about it in this forums section that describes different compounds) as a form of Ai with benefits way above many popular ones .

Hey Old Fart is a status that should be desired (Eventually anyway) ! The altertinitive is not so good IMHO !

as a form of Ai with benefits way above many popular ones .

Never even implied it was new or never heard of ? Do I sense a bit of resentment towards me ? No sweat I will leave this thread and let you enjoy sharing your knowledge .......

[JaneDoe]

No hard feelings, bro .. I just said that, because I already knew what you mentioned above. But still thanks for your advice.