Old man cycle, advice appreciated

[oldmaninahurry]

Hi! I'm nearly 50, everything is functioning great, I'm very fit. I kill it in the gym but muscle growth is slow with an old man's test, and I likely have like 10 years left in the bank before it's all downhill.

So I'm considering 500mg test e a week split into 2 doses for 10 weeks. then 2 weeks off, then PCT. I did a very light cycle ~20 years ago and nothing since then.

I've got nolva and clomid and HCG for the PCT or for in-cycle issues. All the gear is UGL but a person who I trust, and who has a lot of experience in these things, vouches for it.

I did all the blood tests (blood panel, liver, kidney, hormones, PSA, cholesterol), and everything looks OK. The only thing out of normal range is elevated LDL by a small margin, but I've had that my whole life and I eat really clean.

I'd love to hear answers about an older guy like me:

- How much of my gains (approx, if the cycle goes 'normally') will I hold onto once the PCT is over - like, will my old man testosterone levels decrease what I can hold onto?

- Will having lower test to begin with make it harder for my endogenous test to recover, compared to a younger male?

- If anyone else did a cycle around 50 years old, do you have any comments about risks, mitigations, tips etc?

Much obliged, Sirs.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Gains will be diet and genetic dependent…holding onto them after PCT is always a challenge. Have you considered TRT and “cruising” afterwards? Especially with low T now…

Recovery is always the issue, especially after we begin to age. Hard to quantify what your numbers will be but done correctly, getting back to baseline is achievable.

Having lower levels at the start won’t matter because you’re flooding your body with exogenous test so your levels will rise artificially. Afterwards though is the issue.

I’d consider TRT or those 12 weeks of being Superman will be fleeting…

I’m 47 and have been on TRT for 7 years, I’d never go back

Not shitting on your plan but trying to set some realistic ideas. You can definitely put on some mass and keep it by running a cycle but eating, PCT and lifting when you’re recovering had to be spot on

[warchild]

50yo and want to PCT? Go TRT and stay on it. 10 weeks is way to short of a cycle anyways.

[Cylon357]

Good advice from these two already.

Keep an eye on DHT with that much test. Even HRT can spike your PSA for a bit, and as a fellow member of the 50+ club, that has to be the single most annoying and somewhat unanticipated aspect of my journey.

[oldmaninahurry]

Gains will be diet and genetic dependent…holding onto them after PCT is always a challenge. Have you considered TRT and “cruising” afterwards? Especially with low T now…

Recovery is always the issue, especially after we begin to age. Hard to quantify what your numbers will be but done correctly, getting back to baseline is achievable.

Having lower levels at the start won’t matter because you’re flooding your body with exogenous test so your levels will rise artificially. Afterwards though is the issue.

I’d consider TRT or those 12 weeks of being Superman will be fleeting…

I’m 47 and have been on TRT for 7 years, I’d never go back

Not shitting on your plan but trying to set some realistic ideas. You can definitely put on some mass and keep it by running a cycle but eating, PCT and lifting when you’re recovering had to be spot on

Thanks for responding! I'm here for a reality/expectation check, so thanks a lot for this!

The country I live in doesn't really have TRT as "a thing" for people with expected-low-end T (e.g. older people), but I can dig into that more. I'm not super keen on being on self-prescribed T using UGL product for the rest of my life, not least because I might not always be able to get good/clean product due to factors beyond my control, or I may have to go abroad for work/family reasons and don't want to carry a controlled substance.

PCT, lifting and eating properly after a cycle is all good on-paper, but I'm aware that things can change at the time, e.g. hormonal imbalance may reduce my discipline due to poor outlook or whatever.

I'll think I should see a private endocrinologist to investigate the prescription T option, although the outlook might not be great I should at least cover it.

[oldmaninahurry]

50yo and want to PCT? Go TRT and stay on it. 10 weeks is way to short of a cycle anyways.

Thanks! Cycle too short, +1 on the TRT, check!

[oldmaninahurry]

Good advice from these two already.

Keep an eye on DHT with that much test. Even HRT can spike your PSA for a bit, and as a fellow member of the 50+ club, that has to be the single most annoying and somewhat unanticipated aspect of my journey.

OK, thanks, what will elevated DHT manifest as in terms of negative effects?

I was sort of thinking about prostate, as well. I don't currently have any prostate issues, but from what I've read a lot of men our age have, or will soon get, some degree of prostate enlargement, either from prostatitis or tumor. Often the tumor is benign and slow-growing enough that it won't kill a man before other natural causes (which is why PSA-diagnosed overkill response from medical establishments is now a recognized issue, and one that a family member was affected by). But a concern I had was that at this age I'm more likely have some relatively benign tumor somewhere, like my prostate, and a cycle might turbocharge its growth.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Great call on the endocrinologist and makes sense to not want to be dependent on UGL. I can’t argue with either….

The cypionate ester won’t really start to do its thing until roughly week 6, so taking it to 12-16 is pretty common. When you plateau, then it’s time to start dialing it down and preparing for PCT.

It’s late and I’m tired but wanted to give you a proper response. There’s also a 40+ section and a TRT section, plenty of us in that over 45 bracket as well.

Welcome to the forums by the way, lots of amazing people here to help!

[AR's King Silabolin]

Hi! I'm nearly 50, everything is functioning great, I'm very fit. I kill it in the gym but muscle growth is slow with an old man's test, and I likely have like 10 years left in the bank before it's all downhill.

So I'm considering 500mg test e a week split into 2 doses for 10 weeks. then 2 weeks off, then PCT. I did a very light cycle ~20 years ago and nothing since then.

I've got nolva and clomid and HCG for the PCT or for in-cycle issues. All the gear is UGL but a person who I trust, and who has a lot of experience in these things, vouches for it.

I did all the blood tests (blood panel, liver, kidney, hormones, PSA, cholesterol), and everything looks OK. The only thing out of normal range is elevated LDL by a small margin, but I've had that my whole life and I eat really clean.

I'd love to hear answers about an older guy like me:

- How much of my gains (approx, if the cycle goes 'normally') will I hold onto once the PCT is over - like, will my old man testosterone levels decrease what I can hold onto?

- Will having lower test to begin with make it harder for my endogenous test to recover, compared to a younger male?

- If anyone else did a cycle around 50 years old, do you have any comments about risks, mitigations, tips etc?

Much obliged, Sirs.

Jupp.
Fast one day a week and skip breakfast 1-2 days a week.
Metabolic syndrome is our biggest concern in the 50s, and those two are better than any medicine for it. And its for free.

LDL is not important. Just VS LDL is dangerous. If u cut out fructose, u should be ok.

Meaning, bacon will not increase VS LDL and will not clog arteries. But its indeed prosessed and with lots of nitritt added which could increase cancerrisk for some.

Those things are important now, not the cycle.
After u should drop PCT and start TRT.
We are too old for PCT now. If i wanna juice in our age, then u must start TRT. There is no other way.

Too simplyfy. Do the 5 2 diett. 48 hours fasting a week. Cut out fructose. Start TRT.
Then for the rest, do what u want.

And, training in a fasting state is just as good as lots of carbs, pwos, intras.
Break fast with a little protein after training.
Then go home and eat what u want.

Youtube is all over with more info on this, and i can confirm. It works.

Sent fra min SM-G998B via Tapatalk

[AR's King Silabolin]

....sr

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[sargon]

I'll just piggy back onto TRT, I've been on it for 10 years and it is life changing.

[Cylon357]

OK, thanks, what will elevated DHT manifest as in terms of negative effects?

I was sort of thinking about prostate, as well. I don't currently have any prostate issues, but from what I've read a lot of men our age have, or will soon get, some degree of prostate enlargement, either from prostatitis or tumor. Often the tumor is benign and slow-growing enough that it won't kill a man before other natural causes (which is why PSA-diagnosed overkill response from medical establishments is now a recognized issue, and one that a family member was affected by). But a concern I had was that at this age I'm more likely have some relatively benign tumor somewhere, like my prostate, and a cycle might turbocharge its growth.

The only real negative I have associated with elevated DHT is BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia ie normal non malignant prostate growth). I should add that my hair started thinning in my mid 20s, so hair loss has not been a concern of mine for 20 years or more. Anyhow, my PSA score moves with my DHT. There were 1.9 and roughly 45 (15 to 59 range) and have been as high as 3.5 and 119 on serm based HRT. I should add that this is true going down, too. I have modified doses and when DHT goes down, so does PSA.

Other things that I have experienced with higher DHT are assertiveness and mental clarity. The assertiveness borders on aggression at some points, but I direct that into the gym so it works well.

Prostatitis... yeah, I have had bouts of that too. It can be scarey to see a PSA score of 5.3 or 6.2, I assure you. Antibiotics start working notably in 24 hours for me, and my doc is well versed enough in HRT and me in particular such that I need only call and say 'hey doc, my prostatitis is acting up again' and he writes the script.

One thing that most docs will throw out there when talking about DHT is finasteride / dutasteride. Some men tolerate them quite well, others, myself included, do NOT. It is more fair to say that I am an over responder to fina... point being, that if you get to the point where you are thinking about finasteride, look into microdosing.

[oldmaninahurry]

The only real negative I have associated with elevated DHT is BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia ie normal non malignant prostate growth). I should add that my hair started thinning in my mid 20s, so hair loss has not been a concern of mine for 20 years or more. Anyhow, my PSA score moves with my DHT. There were 1.9 and roughly 45 (15 to 59 range) and have been as high as 3.5 and 119 on serm based HRT. I should add that this is true going down, too. I have modified doses and when DHT goes down, so does PSA.

Other things that I have experienced with higher DHT are assertiveness and mental clarity. The assertiveness borders on aggression at some points, but I direct that into the gym so it works well.

Prostatitis... yeah, I have had bouts of that too. It can be scarey to see a PSA score of 5.3 or 6.2, I assure you. Antibiotics start working notably in 24 hours for me, and my doc is well versed enough in HRT and me in particular such that I need only call and say 'hey doc, my prostatitis is acting up again' and he writes the script.

One thing that most docs will throw out there when talking about DHT is finasteride / dutasteride. Some men tolerate them quite well, others, myself included, do NOT. It is more fair to say that I am an over responder to fina... point being, that if you get to the point where you are thinking about finasteride, look into microdosing.

My PSA is 1.25 µg/l (normal upper bound stated as < 1.4 µg/l on my results), so I agree 5.x or 6.x would be scary AF!

The lab I use doesn't even do DHT, as far as I can see, but it's useful to know about, thank you. Maybe another lab has a test for it that I could use if and when I do go on-cycle or TRT.

[Cylon357]

My PSA is 1.25 µg/l (normal upper bound stated as < 1.4 µg/l on my results), so I agree 5.x or 6.x would be scary AF!

The lab I use doesn't even do DHT, as far as I can see, but it's useful to know about, thank you. Maybe another lab has a test for it that I could use if and when I do go on-cycle or TRT.

Man, I don't even know what 1.25 PSA must be like. I was 1.9 in my mid to late 30s and held there until HRT.

If you are in the US and using one of the major labs, they almost certainly have DHT somewhere. It might be called fully spelled out as dihydrotestosterone so maybe the search for DHT doesn't find it.

[Iranon]

Be smart and be safe, listen and read then decide what is best and healthiest for you.

I would never recommend anyone just jump on TRT because of their age, best to get blood work and see if you need it.

finasteride at a 1mg dose ED (every day) is probably a good idea to slow or stop BPH, you can take 5mg Cialis also and this should negate any erectile dysfunction plus the 500mg of test a week will negate it even more. At 50 your Doctor should have no problem prescribing these for you.

Gains form PEDS are temporary, sucks but it's the truth.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Hi! I'm nearly 50, everything is functioning great, I'm very fit. I kill it in the gym but muscle growth is slow with an old man's test, and I likely have like 10 years left in the bank before it's all downhill.

So I'm considering 500mg test e a week split into 2 doses for 10 weeks. then 2 weeks off, then PCT. I did a very light cycle ~20 years ago and nothing since then.

I've got nolva and clomid and HCG for the PCT or for in-cycle issues. All the gear is UGL but a person who I trust, and who has a lot of experience in these things, vouches for it.

I did all the blood tests (blood panel, liver, kidney, hormones, PSA, cholesterol), and everything looks OK. The only thing out of normal range is elevated LDL by a small margin, but I've had that my whole life and I eat really clean.

I'd love to hear answers about an older guy like me:

- How much of my gains (approx, if the cycle goes 'normally') will I hold onto once the PCT is over - like, will my old man testosterone levels decrease what I can hold onto?

- Will having lower test to begin with make it harder for my endogenous test to recover, compared to a younger male?

- If anyone else did a cycle around 50 years old, do you have any comments about risks, mitigations, tips etc?

Much obliged, Sirs.

Do have your labs available to post? Most specifically the hormonal information…

If you’re comfortable, post them up but be sure to black out any relevant information regarding your identity.

Curious to see what your baseline levels are. The problem with just going off of objective blood work results is the variance of the “normal” range is massive.

Subjective insights that you can share with your healthcare provider are pertinent…especially when it comes to mood, energy, fatigue, sex drive, ED and your overall sense of well being.

Woman have been prescribed hormones for decades, hormonal health in men is newer and still carries a taboo with some HC providers (it’s absurd).
You’re your own best advocate and like Iranon stated, no one should just “jump on” TRT because it’s for life…but it can also be life changing. No way in hell would I ever go back, and when it comes to PED, it’s MUCH easier to hold onto those gains when you’re supplying your body with an exogenous source of testosterone .

Welcome to the “blast and cruise” lifestyle…

[oldmaninahurry]

Do have your labs available to post? Most specifically the hormonal information…

If you’re comfortable, post them up but be sure to black out any relevant information regarding your identity.

Curious to see what your baseline levels are. The problem with just going off of objective blood work results is the variance of the “normal” range is massive.

Subjective insights that you can share with your healthcare provider are pertinent…especially when it comes to mood, energy, fatigue, sex drive, ED and your overall sense of well being.

Woman have been prescribed hormones for decades, hormonal health in men is newer and still carries a taboo with some HC providers (it’s absurd).
You’re your own best advocate and like Iranon stated, no one should just “jump on” TRT because it’s for life…but it can also be life changing. No way in hell would I ever go back, and when it comes to PED, it’s MUCH easier to hold onto those gains when you’re supplying your body with an exogenous source of testosterone .

Welcome to the “blast and cruise” lifestyle…

Results, sure, thanks for the interest! Here are all the hormone results. Some are in nmol/l so I also converted them to ng/dl as well, which I believe is used in the US, because most of the English-speaking Internet seems to use ng/dl! Included in brackets is are the preference ranges for normality that this country (and therefore its endocrinologists) use.

Testosterone 12.7 nmol/l (8-30) =366 ng/dl

SHBG 25 nmol/l (14-71) =721 ng/dl

Free androgen index 50.8% (20-81%). When I selected the test it translated to something like "Free testosterone (calculated)". I did order a proper free T test as well, it just takes longer to be processed, and I'm still waiting for it. From reading around, the free T % is calculated from T, albumin and SHBG. Using an online calculator, and making as assumption of a normal reference for albumin (because I didn't get it tested separately, will do next week), this works out as 2.35% free testosterone, or 7 nmol/l (=202 ng/dl). I don't really know how these calculations work, I'm just pasting the figures it gives out.

Estriadol <88.0 pmol/l (<161). I don't know why they don't give an exact figure, maybe <88 is too low to detect?

DHEAS 5.0 µmol/l (3.7-12)

FSH 4.3 IU/l (1-12)

LH 1.13 IU/l (0.8-7)

Regarding my quality of life, it's really good, especially compared to when I didn't look after myself properly (i.e. most of my life). I don't drink, I eat super clean and log everything I eat, I sleep 7-8hrs a night, I drink a lot of water, I have plenty of energy, my intellect is as sharp as it ever was, I wake up with a hardon ("wood") maybe every other day, I have the mojo to masturbate (no partner) about 2 out of every 3 days. Were I to go back to real sex I think erection duration may be an issue, but there are pills for that. My cardio is great, I can run a marathon. My BF% is low enough that I can see my abs (in the right light), but I'm not as ripped as I was because I'm trying to gain right now. Mood is good with others, but lately I've felt an encroaching sense of vulnerability and worry about mortality, myself, my kid and the state of the world that I never had before. All in all I couldn't reasonably/honestly make a case for TRT based on quality of life.

Great point about women being prescribed hormones routinely for decades! I hadn't thought of that.... wow.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Objectively your numbers are ok the lower side for sure, but it sounds like you feel great…congrats!

If it’s not broke, why try and fix it?

[oldmaninahurry]

Objectively your numbers are ok the lower side for sure, but it sounds like you feel great…congrats!

If it’s not broke, why try and fix it?

Yep, the intial idea was to "just do a cycle". But almost everybody I spoke to online (on this forum and 2 other fora) said (paraphrasing) "nobody this age does PCT, PCT is risky, you won't hold gains very well, just TRT afterwards".... so the conversation turned into "why can't you TRT?".

Anyway, it sounds to me like I should hold off doing a cycle until I can commit to TRT afterwards, a) because it's a good idea to hold gains, and b) because I might need it because PCT fails me. And TRT is not something I would to commit to, unless like you say, "something needs fixing".

I got what I needed, some great reality checks and insight that helped me reach a conclusion - no cycle for now. Thanks a lot brothers! Next stop: investigating natural test boosters.

[Cylon357]

Yep, the intial idea was to "just do a cycle". But almost everybody I spoke to online (on this forum and 2 other fora) said (paraphrasing) "nobody this age does PCT, PCT is risky, you won't hold gains very well, just TRT afterwards".... so the conversation turned into "why can't you TRT?".

Anyway, it sounds to me like I should hold off doing a cycle until I can commit to TRT afterwards, a) because it's a good idea to hold gains, and b) because I might need it because PCT fails me. And TRT is not something I would to commit to, unless like you say, "something needs fixing".

I got what I needed, some great reality checks and insight that helped me reach a conclusion - no cycle for now. Thanks a lot brothers! Next stop: investigating natural test boosters.

There are a handful of natural test boosters that I find interesting for older gents like ourselves that are not HRT'ing.

Longjack
Mucuna Pruriens
Shilajit
DAA

Are all interesting products with at least some evidence supporting test increases. Well, not mucuna so much, that is just a feel good for me. The other 3 are worth looking at. You can search for their entries over at examine.

Nothing beats the real thing tho, so be advised, this is a slippery slope!

[SampsonandDelilah]

Yep, the intial idea was to "just do a cycle". But almost everybody I spoke to online (on this forum and 2 other fora) said (paraphrasing) "nobody this age does PCT, PCT is risky, you won't hold gains very well, just TRT afterwards".... so the conversation turned into "why can't you TRT?".

Anyway, it sounds to me like I should hold off doing a cycle until I can commit to TRT afterwards, a) because it's a good idea to hold gains, and b) because I might need it because PCT fails me. And TRT is not something I would to commit to, unless like you say, "something needs fixing".

I got what I needed, some great reality checks and insight that helped me reach a conclusion - no cycle for now. Thanks a lot brothers! Next stop: investigating natural test boosters.

Your wisdom shines through brother, congrats…
You should see how many “experienced” twenty something’s roll though here, ask the same questions and ignore every fucking piece of advice given. It’s almost cliche.

Anyways, I’m impressed. It’s not like it’s going anywhere and mindsets can always be changed.

Stay well