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  1. #1
    F40
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    How do AAS ACTUALLY build muscle?

    Simple enough question but one I feel still needs to be answered in more clarity.
    It's not enough to say that they "boost testosterone " etc etc....... so what?? What does that ACTUALLY mean? How does this impact on the MUSCLES? What is the role of training - does training augment the usage of AAS or do AAS augment training?

    I AM INTERESTED IN THE BIOLOGY - protein/synthesis/nitrogen balance/water retention/glycogen balance/hormones/strength....
    How do these processes change in relation to being natural?

    It's a big question but EVERY newbie needs to know the answer.

    F40
    Last edited by F40; 09-03-2003 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Dude-Man's Avatar
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    basically, AS give you a positive nitrogen balance. If you use the search button, or any of the links on the homepage, you could've found this. Each steroid functions differently, but the net result is usually the same. Go to drug profiles on the main page, and go through each steroid. Voila, there's your answer.

  3. #3
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    without a scientific breakdown which I really cant give you but many can...testosterone is the male hormone responsible for muscle growth, with testosterone peaks boosted, this makes for more muscle growth

  4. #4
    daem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisAdams
    basically, AS give you a positive nitrogen balance. If you use the search button, or any of the links on the homepage, you could've found this. Each steroid functions differently, but the net result is usually the same. Go to drug profiles on the main page, and go through each steroid. Voila, there's your answer.
    to expound, the positive nitrogen balance improves protein synthesis so fuel in the form of solid food and MRP bars/shakes is not wasted. protein is synthesized throughout the body and shuttled into the muscle fibers along with carbohydrates to replenish glycogen reserves when they are depleted.

    basically heavy and hard training for hypertrophy is more efficient and recovery is aided with any steroid , but as chris said, different drugs have different effects and properties.

    i also agree on you checking out the profiles section to collect more information about each compound.

  5. #5
    D3m3nt3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daem
    to expound, the positive nitrogen balance improves protein synthesis so fuel in the form of solid food and MRP bars/shakes is not wasted. protein is synthesized throughout the body and shuttled into the muscle fibers along with carbohydrates to replenish glycogen reserves when they are depleted.

    basically heavy and hard training for hypertrophy is more efficient and recovery is aided with any steroid , but as chris said, different drugs have different effects and properties.

    i also agree on you checking out the profiles section to collect more information about each compound.
    Told you someone could give you a scientific breakdown

  6. #6
    talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3m3nt3d
    Told you someone could give you a scientific breakdown
    From what Ive studied a pos. nitro balance has to be achieved for anabolism. Steriods cause this from a retention and a larger addition of nitrogen. Steroids do bind to the andro. receptor causing a faster and more powerful translation and transcription process (DNA-tRNA-mRNA-RNA-AA syntesis-protein synthesis). This will cause an influx of amino acids, which yes all fight for certain carriers, but give more to grow on. I think "gear" will also cause a faster more violent synapse, activating actin more aggressively and shifting myosin harder, for a stronger contraction. It also volumizes the intra-muscular cell better, resulting in a better blood flow..aka. "the pump". This volume inducing affect also causes the glycogen reserves to be "filled" faster in the muscle, this plus the influx of amino acids causes the skeletal muscle fiber to heal faster.
    Last edited by talon; 09-03-2003 at 10:27 AM.

  7. #7
    Rookiejay's Avatar
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    Just want to through a related question ------ What causes the enormous strength? Is that a part of the receptor being affected or it's a "side effect" (in a good way) of AS.

  8. #8
    D3m3nt3d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by talon
    From what Ive studied a pos. nitro balance has to be achieved for anabolism. Steriods cause this from a retention and a larger addition of nitrogen. Steroids do bind to the andro. receptor causing a faster and more powerful translation and transcription process (DNA-tRNA-mRNA-RNA-AA syntesis-protein synthesis). This will cause an influx of amino acids, which yes all fight for certain carriers, but give more to grow on. I think "gear" will also cause a faster more violent synapse, activating actin more aggressively and shifting myosin harder, for a stronger contraction. It also volumizes the intra-muscular cell better, resulting in a better blood flow..aka. "the pump". This volume inducing affect also causes the glycogen reserves to be "filled" faster in the muscle, this plus the influx of amino acids causes the skeletal muscle fiber to heal faster.
    Yeah Talon,
    I have the anabolics 2002 book which has really good info on both steroids and diuretics and it talks about testosterone and the whole "chemistry" breakdown...science bores me bro..not my strongpoint on steroid knowledge

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by talon
    From what Ive studied a pos. nitro balance has to be achieved for anabolism. Steriods cause this from a retention and a larger addition of nitrogen. Steroids do bind to the andro. receptor causing a faster and more powerful translation and transcription process (DNA-tRNA-mRNA-RNA-AA syntesis-protein synthesis). This will cause an influx of amino acids, which yes all fight for certain carriers, but give more to grow on. I think "gear" will also cause a faster more violent synapse, activating actin more aggressively and shifting myosin harder, for a stronger contraction. It also volumizes the intra-muscular cell better, resulting in a better blood flow..aka. "the pump". This volume inducing affect also causes the glycogen reserves to be "filled" faster in the muscle, this plus the influx of amino acids causes the skeletal muscle fiber to heal faster.
    Very well put Talon. I recently took a college biology class and studied protein synthesis, ATP energy transfer, trascription and translation. It is very hard to talk about these kinds of things when I try to answer my friends questions about what they do. However, I look smart as hell to them when I do try to describe this whole process in the most generic of terms.

  10. #10
    talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rookiejay
    Just want to through a related question ------ What causes the enormous strength? Is that a part of the receptor being affected or it's a "side effect" (in a good way) of AS.
    Basically put, a large amount of test. and the volumizing affect accounts for the strength. Since your muscle fibrils (not fibers, Im talking about the individual muscle "cell" where the actual actin/myosin is) are volmized they have a larger supply of blood. Since your red blood cells carry O2 to the muscle, one can see that the muscle has more oxygen. Thus, it can readily convert ADP to ATP and one can see again that more ATP means more energy/strength, because it is the energy compound for any cellular/muscular action. This is the same concept as "Blood Loading", when athletes do this for sporting events.
    Last edited by talon; 09-03-2003 at 10:57 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by talon
    Basically put, a large amount of test. and the volumizing affect accounts for the strength. Since your muscle fibrils (not fibers, Im talking about the individual muscle "cell" where the actual actin/myosin is) are volmized they have a larger supply of blood. Since your red blood cells carry O2 to the muscle, one can see that the muscle has more oxygen. Thus, it can readily convert ADP to ATP and one can see again that more ATP means more energy/strength, because it is the energy compound for any cellular/muscular action. This is the same concept as "Blood Loading", when athletes do this for sporting events.
    Wow, he's smart and not just a post whore....ha ha ha...LOL...you see no matter what I still whore....LOL

  12. #12
    talon's Avatar
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    F40 get what you were looking for?

  13. #13
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    well even though talon stole 4 post counts from this thread-I am only going to steal one.

    Good read.

  14. #14
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    Okay so I gotta HiJack this one a little. Does anyone take creatine on cycle? Will it help? If your muscles better use ATP while on, wouldn't you think having a better supply of ATP would further gains. Just wondering, and I am sure this has been answered like 5 billion times. Thanks all. Mark

  15. #15
    xxxl83 is offline Productive Member
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    Well here is something I'm surprised no one touched upon:
    AAS block cortisol receptors. Thats what is responsible for alot the other things that everyone else mentioned. That is why it's so important to regain normal hpta function as soon as possible after cycle.

    xxxl83

  16. #16
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    Androgens do the following: stimlation of protein synthesis and the consequent increase in skeletal muscle mass along with retension of water, nitrogen, and such ions as calcium, sodium, potassium, chloride, Since skeletal muscle does not contain specific receptors for androgens it has been proposed that adrogens may exert their anabolic actions in muscle by competing with glucocorticoids for their cytosolic receptors, thus inhibiting or preventing the catabloic actions of the glucocorticoids. On a side note since stress, increases cortisol levels in the body, it follows that a constant worry is bad for your muscles.
    On the genetic level, steroids bind to a receptor, on binding ligand, this activated complex can interact with chromatin and regulate transcription of target genes. This means more protein sytheisis, the cell factory goes into over drive. You start making more of everything even cancer cells if you have some. Not a good thing at all. Actually it's pretty bad if you have cancer in the family or prostrate probems, but thats another story. So if you sit on your ass and load up on steroids you will grow and get big. If you work your muscles you will grow expotentially more. Why? Another big mystery but working the muscle and increase activity of cells is thought to increase the turnover rate of available receptors to activated receptors. More receptors more protein synthesis. So to maximize your gear you must work out. I think you asked how does a muscle get stronger? It has been awhile since I read up on this, but I think there are tiny fibers than contract within the muscle. A stronger muscle has more of these fibers. You can't build more muscle cells, but you can build more of these tiny fibers and that is how you get stronger. Once again a little rusty, but I think I have the basic principle. Amazing stuff isn't it?

  17. #17
    talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfenske
    Okay so I gotta HiJack this one a little. Does anyone take creatine on cycle? Will it help? If your muscles better use ATP while on, wouldn't you think having a better supply of ATP would further gains. Just wondering, and I am sure this has been answered like 5 billion times. Thanks all. Mark
    Well you see the natural creatanine in your body readly converts ADP (di phosphate) back to ATP (tri phosphate), well that what its purpose is when involved in a muscular contraction. Now when you injest creatine (a dervative of creatanine) you, supposably, up the amount of creatanine in your body thus converting more ADP into ATP, therefore having more energy and getting stronger faster.

  18. #18
    Dude-Man's Avatar
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    The only thing i'd worry about going on creatine is that some reports say it's a little tough on the liver, so if you're taking l7-aa orals, you've got to be careful..
    Other than that, i say go for it! especially if you're not taking any orals.

    Never ever ever take tylenol on cycle.

  19. #19
    rxarms's Avatar
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    Take creatine with alkasetzer. You get better absorption and need less, means less toxic on liver

  20. #20
    talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxarms
    Androgens do the following: stimlation of protein synthesis and the consequent increase in skeletal muscle mass along with retension of water, nitrogen, and such ions as calcium, sodium, potassium, chloride, Since skeletal muscle does not contain specific receptors for androgens it has been proposed that adrogens may exert their anabolic actions in muscle by competing with glucocorticoids for their cytosolic receptors, thus inhibiting or preventing the catabloic actions of the glucocorticoids. On a side note since stress, increases cortisol levels in the body, it follows that a constant worry is bad for your muscles.
    On the genetic level, steroids bind to a receptor, on binding ligand, this activated complex can interact with chromatin and regulate transcription of target genes. This means more protein sytheisis, the cell factory goes into over drive. You start making more of everything even cancer cells if you have some. Not a good thing at all. Actually it's pretty bad if you have cancer in the family or prostrate probems, but thats another story. So if you sit on your ass and load up on steroids you will grow and get big. If you work your muscles you will grow expotentially more. Why? Another big mystery but working the muscle and increase activity of cells is thought to increase the turnover rate of available receptors to activated receptors. More receptors more protein synthesis. So to maximize your gear you must work out. I think you asked how does a muscle get stronger? It has been awhile since I read up on this, but I think there are tiny fibers than contract within the muscle. A stronger muscle has more of these fibers. You can't build more muscle cells, but you can build more of these tiny fibers and that is how you get stronger. Once again a little rusty, but I think I have the basic principle. Amazing stuff isn't it?
    Well this is basically what I said in lamens terms, well sorta...LOL... Rx these little muscle "cells" your are talking about are fibrils, which I spoke on earlier. When the ANDROGENIC steroid enters the body, yes it does fight with the cyotisitic receptors, with a end product of decreased catabolism and muscle atrophy. It also slow the buildup of cytosol, during long and enduring workouts. As far as what you said about the steroid being picked up by the andro receptor of the cell, increasing its output of the translation to transcription process, is true as this is what I stated earlier. Yet, I dont think it will increase the production of cancer cells in the body. Your not producing cells as a bi-product, but more of a mass production of aminos. These aminos already fight for certain carriers in your body, so the one left out would be metabolized by the liver and/or wasted.
    As you said you dont build muscle, you increase the size of the fibrils, especially the fast glycolitic variety, you also increase the amount of CT between the cell of the muscle. Collectively these changes promote signifigant increases in muscle strength and size.
    Last edited by talon; 09-04-2003 at 01:01 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by talon
    Well you see the natural creatanine in your body readly converts ADP (di phosphate) back to ATP (tri phosphate), well that what its purpose is when involved in a muscular contraction. Now when you injest creatine (a dervative of creatanine) you, supposably, up the amount of creatanine in your body thus converting more ADP into ATP, therefore having more energy and getting stronger faster.
    BUMP for the creatine users, as you do hold water, also, which hydrates the muscle, but is common knowledge to most users....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by talon
    Well this is basically what I said in lamens terms, well sorta...LOL... Rx these little muscle "cells" your are talking about are fibrils, which I spoke on earlier. When the ANDROGENIC steroid enters the body, yes it does fight with the cyotisitic receptors, with a end product of decreased catabolism and muscle atrophy. It also slow the buildup of cytosol, during long and enduring workouts. As far as what you said about the steroid being picked up by the andro receptor of the cell, increasing its output of the translation to transcription process, is true as this is what I stated earlier. Yet, I dont think it will increase the production of cancer cells in the body. Your not producing cells as a bi-product, but more of a mass production of aminos. These aminos already fight for certain carriers in your body, so the one left out would be metabolized by the liver and/or wasted.
    As you said you dont build muscle, you increase the size of the fibrils, especially the fast glycolitic variety, you also increase the amount of CT between the cell of the muscle. Collectively these changes promote signifigant increases in muscle strength and size.
    Damn Talon, I'm impressed!!

  23. #23
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    So strength increases have nothing to do with the neuro-muscular junction?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMC78
    So strength increases have nothing to do with the neuro-muscular junction?
    Well, if you increase the amount of "charge" between the synaptic end bulb and the actual sarcolemma of the muscle (aka the synaptic gap), you would increase the amount of ACh the binds to the receptors of the sarcolemma, thus increasing the electrical wave/impulse which causes the calcium in the fibril to shift troponin, shifting tropomyosin, thus making actin shift myosin. This increase would cause a harder contraction=more strength....So yes it has alot to do with it bro...

  25. #25
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    I was gonna post but WHORE KING and RX beat me to it.
    They both surprised me to be honest.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bermich
    I was gonna post but WHORE KING and RX beat me to it.
    They both surprised me to be honest.
    Talon may post a lot but he knows his shit, anyway no one will ever get with D00fy when he was on, im sure alot of the bro's that have been here a while remember who I am talking about...I have been on here almost 2 or 3 yrs..cant remember, but D00fy has posted more than me still..and he did it in like 2 or 3 months =\

  27. #27
    Sigmund Froid is offline Associate Member
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    Let's not forget other non-AR mediated pathways, like a reduction in cortisol levels which results in less catabolism. Then there is an increase in creatine storage. Then there is an increase in water retention. AAS also allows you to work out harder and more frequently without over training. All of these things work together to create an anabolic environment.

    -SF

    -SF

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Froid
    Let's not forget other non-AR mediated pathways, like a reduction in cortisol levels which results in less catabolism. Then there is an increase in creatine storage. Then there is an increase in water retention. AAS also allows you to work out harder and more frequently without over training. All of these things work together to create an anabolic environment.

    -SF

    -SF
    Yes, cortisol is a catabolic substance produced by the body, which acts to cause muscle atrophy. So, yes, with a reduction of this you would inturn create a larger anabolism process. Like I said earlier with an increased creatine phosphate storage, you would be able to readily convert more ADP, into ATP. By the way ADP is broken down ATP, usually a product extracted from a muscular contraction. Like Sigmund said you would have an increase in water retention. Now lets look at this from a different standpoint. Ok. ATP is used to cock the head of the outer h-zone of the z-band of a muscle fibril. This causes the actin in a muscular filament to be moved toward the center of the sarcomere of the fibril. So common sense would tell that, more ATP equals more movement of the i-band and shortening of the z to z lines of the fibril. AKA a muscular contraction (more contractions of each individual fibril, larger contraction of the muscle fiber, boom more strength.)
    You guys also gotta remember what I was trying to hint on earlier and what MMC78 was suggesting. Axons extending from the motor neurons of the body end with a synaptic or axon end bulb. In this end buld is a substance called AcH. This substance travels across the synaptic cleft ( the space between the end bulb and the actual sarcolemma.) Well, to make a long story short this substance causes an electrical wave/impulse, as mentioned ealier in this thread, which causes the sarcoplasm reticulum to release calcium and start the contraction proces. Well the reason Im telling you about this substance is really important. There is another substance called Achesterase. This substance in antagonistic (opposite) of Ach. It will cause the release of the synaptic or axon end bulb from the sarcolemma. Thus ending the contraction process. Well, from my studying I found that a.a.s. cause a decrease in this Achesterase. Well, you can now see the importance here. Less Achesterase will cause less detachements of the synaptic or axon end bulb resulting in more neurotransmission, thus more and more powerful contractions. Thus, more strength.
    Last edited by talon; 09-04-2003 at 11:02 PM.

  29. #29
    F40
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    Guys - your help is ALWAYS appreciated...

    BUT please fellas - ENGLISH - me no understand..
    (wayyy over my head)

  30. #30
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    Magic!!!


    -B

  31. #31
    talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F40
    Guys - your help is ALWAYS appreciated...

    BUT please fellas - ENGLISH - me no understand..
    (wayyy over my head)
    LOL, sorry F40, this thread was for you, but I tend to expand on this stuff when given a chance. I also teach a small anatomy and physiology 1 and 2 class (basically a tutoring club/class, but a little larger) from time to time and I teach basic, I mean really basic anatomy to the new employees at my gym, because this stuff intrests me to the highest degree. If you want to know something specifc, just let me know through the board and I will try to explain, this time, in more lamens terms. Sorry bro....

  32. #32
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    [QUOTE=talon]. I also teach a small anatomy and physiology 1 and 2 class (basically a tutoring club/class, but a little larger) from time to time and I teach basic, I mean really basic anatomy to the new employees at my gym [QUOTE]


    Im impressed!

  33. #33
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    This is not a whore post...LOL. Thanks guys for the positive feedback on the info Im providing. I love anything to do with anatomy of the muscles, biomechanical movement, etc. etc. If anyone ever needs help figuring things out or dealing with muscles/movement of the human body, let me know.

  34. #34
    talon's Avatar
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    BUMP...for big o legs...dont even start or say it bro's i know...bwa ha ha...LOL... but he wanted to read up on some of this stuff and pm'd me, so I wanted him to check it out

  35. #35
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    great thread

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