Question on cutting....

[talon]

Hey brothas. I got a quick question about cutting post-cycle. Is this a wise choice? From what I have read and researched you want to keep the same caloric intake and eat in the same manner you were on the cycle when getting off. Now this is where I come in confused. If I wanted to start a cutting diet (lower calories/carbs.) when I get off would this be dumb mistake or somthing I can work with? If its not a good thing to do, what would the waiting period be before I could start a cutting cycle? For instance I am 188lb now, I want to bulk, on the cycle, up to around 205lb to 210lb, then cut back down to around 180ish with hopefull 6% to 7% bf.......

[Pheedno]

I'd wait for as long as you were on. It can take wks to months to get T. Test levels to the peak normal level(level is individualistic). Anytime before it does stabilize, is a possible environment for catabolism.

[Testify]

Why would you want to bulk up and then end at a weight that is less than what you are at now? If that was you in your old avatar, you are not overweight, so I am confused.

T

[Ryanhallmark]

Why would you want to bulk up and then end at a weight that is less than what you are at now? If that was you in your old avatar, you are not overweight, so I am confused.

T

He would have more mass, but less body fat, I think that is what he is trying to get at.

[talon]

I'd wait for as long as you were on. It can take wks to months to get T. Test levels to the peak normal level(level is individualistic). Anytime before it does stabilize, is a possible environment for catabolism.

Pheedno this is exactly what I was worried about. You see by decreasing the carbs, in theory, you would lessening the glyc. reserves in the muscle belly and fibrils, thus increasing your chances of causing a catabolic enviroment. So if, for example, I was on a ten week cycle the best thing would be to wait ten weeks, get blood test, make sure test. count is up, then begin the cutting program? So keeping the food intake I was consuming during the bulking phase for 10 weeks post cycle would be long enough?

[talon]

Why would you want to bulk up and then end at a weight that is less than what you are at now? If that was you in your old avatar, you are not overweight, so I am confused.

T

No bro, I wanted to do a 10 week bulking phase, plus the cycle. After 10 weeks, post cycle, I wanted to cut, maybe even for contest purposes, but not sure on that. Anyways I wanted to know if this would be smart preceding the cycle. You see if I bulked to 210 maybe more, then cut it back down to 180ish, I guestimated that would be my body weight at 6 to 7 percent b.f., it could be more, just a guestimation. That wasnt the important part, just know if I could start a cutting cycle was.....I was hitting at, when corralating what I was saying to b.f., exactly what RyanHall. was saying.....

[Pheedno]

Pheedno this is exactly what I was worried about. You see by decreasing the carbs, in theory, you would lessening the glyc. reserves in the muscle belly and fibrils, thus increasing your chances of causing a catabolic enviroment. So if, for example, I was on a ten week cycle the best thing would be to wait ten weeks, get blood test, make sure test. count is up, then begin the cutting program? So keeping the food intake I was consuming during the bulking phase for 10 weeks post cycle would be long enough?

I would keep cals 500 above maintenance for 5wks past cycles end, then gradually decrease cals to maintenance over the following 5. If you start putting on fat from 500 cals above maintenace, keep the cals the same, just utilize some cardio to boost the metabolism so those cals are used more effeciently

[talon]

I would keep cals 500 above maintenance for 5wks past cycles end, then gradually decrease cals to maintenance over the following 5. If you start putting on fat from 500 cals above maintenace, keep the cals the same, just utilize some cardio to boost the metabolism so those cals are used more effeciently

So pheed. when you say 500 above maintenance is that 500 above the energy equation calories in=energy out or is that 500 above the amount of calories I was bulking with? For example, say on a day to day basis my maintenance dose of calories, to maintain energy and muscle mass, was 2,000, but on the cycle my caloric intake for bulking was 5000. Would I take 2,500 in and taper back down to 2,000 or would I take 5,000 in and taper down to 5,000, post cycle? You see event he latter of the two is pheasable for me, because my metab. is usually in overdrive, so as you suggested, a little cardio would keep fat off of me even at that intake....

[Testify]

I was just confused because you looked lean in the pic from your original avatar - maybe that is just an old pic? I cut during PCT using Clen and moderate cardio - but not really serious cutting, like for a contest. I was already fairly lean, so I only lost a few pounds. I don't think lost much of the muscle gains, and am not sure how much the clen helped in that. I read that it is anticatabolic, but to what extent? If you are worried about losing a lot of muscle during serious cutting, I don't know the answer. I think Pheedno's advice is probably right on though.

T

[Pheedno]

So pheed. when you say 500 above maintenance is that 500 above the energy equation calories in=energy out or is that 500 above the amount of calories I was bulking with? For example, say on a day to day basis my maintenance dose of calories, to maintain energy and muscle mass, was 2,000, but on the cycle my caloric intake for bulking was 5000. Would I take 2,500 in and taper back down to 2,000 or would I take 5,000 in and taper down to 5,000, post cycle? You see event he latter of the two is pheasable for me, because my metab. is usually in overdrive, so as you suggested, a little cardio would keep fat off of me even at that intake....

If your maintenace is 2000, you shouldn't be eating 5000 on cycle to bulk. My maintenance is around 3000, and I bulk with 4000.(I assume your were just using that as an example)
You being 6t and about 190, you maintenace cals(considering you work out 5+ day a wk) are going to be upwards of around 2900.

Basically, your looking for 210Lbs post cycle. X that by 15, and you got maintenance+ 3150, add 500 to that= 3650. Use that for 5wks, and then taper down wk to wk untill you hit maintenance of 3100-3150. At that point, I 'd sit on maintenane for 2wks, see if weight is dropping, if it's constant, your cals are suffecient and you've got the total for your calorie load day when you cut. If it's dropping in that 2wks, you need to raise your cals by 200 to re-set maintenance, this just meaning your metabolism is super fast

[talon]

If your maintenace is 2000, you shouldn't be eating 5000 on cycle to bulk. My maintenance is around 3000, and I bulk with 4000.(I assume your were just using that as an example)
You being 6t and about 190, you maintenace cals(considering you work out 5+ day a wk) are going to be upwards of around 2900.

Basically, your looking for 210Lbs post cycle. X that by 15, and you got maintenance+ 3150, add 500 to that= 3650. Use that for 5wks, and then taper down wk to wk untill you hit maintenance of 3100-3150. At that point, I 'd sit on maintenane for 2wks, see if weight is dropping, if it's constant, your cals are suffecient and you've got the total for your calorie load day when you cut. If it's dropping in that 2wks, you need to raise your cals by 200 to re-set maintenance, this just meaning your metabolism is super fast

Great, this rectifies my question. Yes, Pheedno I was just using 2,000/5,000 calorie intakes as examples. So after ten weeks 5 weeks at maint plus 500, then 5 weeks at maint, I can begin the cutting diet I have? Thanks Pheedno for your help. Very good advice brotha.

[Pheedno]

Great, this rectifies my question. Yes, Pheedno I was just using 2,000/5,000 calorie intakes as examples. So after ten weeks 5 weeks at maint plus 500, then 5 weeks at maint, I can begin the cutting diet I have? Thanks Pheedno for your help. Very good advice brotha.

That should be fine bro. What's you cutter look like?

[talon]

That should be fine bro. What's you cutter look like?

Oh boy, its a long one. Me and big o legs worked on this one and its design. Its basically the same cutting program he used for past contests and the one he is using for his upcoming contest in Nov., with some personal changes. It basically consists of 3 differentiating carb. diets peaced together on a rotation to allow sufficient energy, yet the lower amount of carbs. you need to cut. There is a low carb. day, a med. carb day, and a high carb. day. The split would be like this:
Monday- Light day
Tuesday- Light Day
WEdnesday- Mod Day
Thursday- Heavy Day
Friday- Light Day
Saturday- Mod Day
Sunday- Heavy Day
This gives high carb loading on Sun. for energy reserves through the week and one on Thurs. before legs (such a large muscle group). If you would like the complete diet I can post it. Its pretty complex, but very effect in it means.

[Pheedno]

I get the just of it. I usually use either a 50g decrease over a 4 day period and then carb load to original- 400, 350, 300, 250, 400

or I'll do a 4 day constant low(200), and then every fifth day jump it to 400

[talon]

I get the just of it. I usually use either a 50g decrease over a 4 day period and then carb load to original- 400, 350, 300, 250, 400

or I'll do a 4 day constant low(200), and then every fifth day jump it to 400

Exactly, this is basically the same in its means. It helps to trick the body into a faster metabolism, while still supplying the energy for the needs of a person trying to maintain muscle mass. I hope to lose about 2lb a week on it. This would be about a 12 to 15 week cutter.