About to start! What you all think??

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 11:55 AM

bros,

I have been working out for 4 years and all natural so far. Unfortunately I have started to max out my natural gains I think. For the past 7 months I have not gained any weight. My diet is still very good, still gets lots of rest, but I think I reached my genetic cap.

There is a guy in my gym who can hook me up with some gear. All I am looking for is a jump start that will get me over my natural limitations so I can start gaining mass again. I am not really interested in water retetion or bloating because I want to keep my ripped look that I worked really hard for. This is the cycle I have been looking at:

wks 1-2: EQ 300mgs/wk
wks 2-4: EQ 400 mgs/wk
wks 4-7: EQ 600 mgs/wk
wks 7-9: EQ 400 mgs/wk
wks 10:EQ 300 mgs
wks 6-13: Tren 50mgs ED

Clomid PCT starting last 3 days after last fina pin.Will have nolva on hand in case gyno wants to show up.

What you guys think? I am aware of the fina sides I know about fina dick and all, but I am not a big fan of test, dont really care for the bloating and water retention. I know people who have done tren only cycles with no problems on that department. All I want is to jump start my natural gains again, will that do it?

Please bros help!

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 11:58 AM

I forgot my stats: 6'1, 187 lbs, 28 years old. And btw, I don't mind ED injections, so that is not a problem to me.

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 11:59 AM

What are your stats: Age, weight, height, how many cycles ran

I will tell you now that cycle is going to shut you down hard without test............ there's no need to pyramid the EQ at all

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:01 PM

oh I thought I would have to pyramid the EQ that's what the bro at the gym said... Can I start at a higher dose then?

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 12:02 PM

How many cycle have you ran before and if so what were they?

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:02 PM

Mudman, this will be my first cycle. Thanks for your help

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 11-11-2003, 12:04 PM

Run a test for sure, and dont pyramid the EQ.

**Testify** · 11-11-2003, 12:04 PM

I would do a Test only cycle for 10 weeks. Get some anti-Es to help with water retention.

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:06 PM

Are there any alternatives to test? I am not really looking for a big bulking cycle, my primary concerns are strength and quality gains maybe to overcome my plateau.

**01dragonslayer** · 11-11-2003, 12:06 PM

If this your first cycle I would opt not to use tren . Tren is usually for the more expirienced cycler. Bloating and water retention should be minimal with proper anti-e supplemention. No need to pyramid your doses either. Run a constant dose throughout the entire cycle. IMO test should be included in every cycle because of its awesome synergistic properties. A enth/EQ stack would be optimal for a newbie. Throw in some winny toward the end to help harden you up and solidify your gains. Train hard and eat clean and watch yourself grow.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 11-11-2003, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by noobie

Are there any alternatives to test? I am not really looking for a big bulking cycle, my primary concerns are strength and quality gains maybe to overcome my plateau.

no, run test. and most would say run it alone.... make sure you reasearch a lot more before you go buying your stuff, or listening to the guy at your gym, that doesnt know dick

***50%Natural*** · 11-11-2003, 12:09 PM

That bro at the gym needs to get a clue. What the hell does that guy know? Oh well, at least you can get knowledgeable help here, run the test cycle. It is real cheap and for godsake don't pyramid, that is a perception of the past and of the uneducated.

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by 01dragonslayer

If this your first cycle I would opt not to use tren. Tren is usually for the more expirienced cycler. Bloating and water retention should be minimal with proper anti-e supplemention. No need to pyramid your doses either. Run a constant dose throughout the entire cycle. IMO test should be included in every cycle because of its awesome synergistic properties. A enth/EQ stack would be optimal for a newbie. Throw in some winny toward the end to help harden you up and solidify your gains. Train hard and eat clean and watch yourself grow.

I agree............ but not on the winny........ 3 compounds for a first cycle is not needed and EQ and Winny will cause lots of joint pain. You need test bro.

This is what I would run:

1 - 13 Enan 500mg
1 - 12 EQ 400mg
1 - 15 Nolva 10 mg ED
Start PCT 3 weeks after last EQ injection:

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2 - 11 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 12 - 21 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:11 PM

Can I brew test from synovex then?

**tmeoe** · 11-11-2003, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

I agree............ but not on the winny........ 3 compounds for a first cycle is not needed and EQ and Winny will cause lots of joint pain. You need test bro.

This is what I would run:

1 - 13 Enan 500mg
1 - 12 EQ 400mg
1 - 15 Nolva 10 mg ED
Start PCT 3 weeks after last EQ injection:

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 2 - 11 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva
Day 12 - 21 50mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva

Agreed, good looking cycle for the solid gains your looking for

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:13 PM

OK I will elaborate, my source has been having problems apparently he was busted a couple of weeks ago and he is chilling for a little bit. I called him about test he said I'd have to wait but he also mentioned the synovex. What you bros think

***50%Natural*** · 11-11-2003, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by noobie

OK I will elaborate, my source has been having problems apparently he was busted a couple of weeks ago and he is chilling for a little bit. I called him about test he said I'd have to wait but he also mentioned the synovex. What you bros think

synovex=testprop=3 or 4 shots a week

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:17 PM

Yeah I know I will have to take more shots, but that's alright. If you bros think I need to add test then I will do it, but it is the only way I could get it right now. I heard that brewing synovex is a lot harder than brewing fina, that's why I am kinda iffy about it

**Ntpadude** · 11-11-2003, 12:20 PM

You may have a misconception about test, I think the EQ offsets or prevents the water bloat but in any case when you come off the test, the water bloat goes away very quickly, or can be prevented entirely "as you go" if you take liquidex every other day while on test. One thing to consider is EQ will shut down the testosterone production so you may end up with 1/10 the testosterone in your system that you have now, this may inhibit some of the gains and cause lack of testosterone side effects. I would recommend some testosterone stacked with this, but it doesnt have to be high doses that might cause some of the water retention side effects, you want enough so that you dont crash and its not pleasant for a man to drop to almost zero testosterone in his system, you might possibly even have health damaging effects from the zero testosterone while on cycle (like osteoporosis of the bones, excessive shrinking of dick and balls, with testosterone actually your dick/balls wont shrink as much as with an EQ "only" cycle).

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:25 PM

I think that maybe I do have a misconception about test... Will the test prop from synovex do the job? If so, what dose do you bros suggest?

**Ntpadude** · 11-11-2003, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by noobie

I think that maybe I do have a misconception about test... Will the test prop from synovex do the job? If so, what dose do you bros suggest?

No way for you to get test cyp or test enanthate ? These are more convenient once a week testosterones and can probably mix right with the eq or take shots on same day... you get sore for couple days after shot so you want to have time to heal and be able to work out... taking shots all thru the week for me would keep me from proper workouts. Make your "days off" or rest days between workouts like the ones following injections.

The water bloat from test is not actually from test, it comes from estrogen being converted from testosterone so take some estrogen inhibitors and this stops this.

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 12:31 PM

I've read that it's hard to completely remove the estradiol when converting synovex............. good way to end up with gyno if you're not careful.

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:34 PM

That's what I heard too that's why I am skeptical about coverting synovex. I wish I could get enan, but it sucks my source is shut down for the next couple of months so I don't know what to do... oh well...

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by noobie

That's what I heard too that's why I am skeptical about coverting synovex. I wish I could get enan, but it sucks my source is shut down for the next couple of months so I don't know what to do... oh well...

I would wait then

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:43 PM

yeah... little depressed here, thought I was going to start soon, but it is ok. Thanks bros.

**Ntpadude** · 11-11-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by noobie

yeah... little depressed here, thought I was going to start soon, but it is ok. Thanks bros.

Just hang around... post some messages, maybe a source will PM you and then you ask for references, ask the references if he is OK and honest and maybe things will work out... you cant ask for a source... prospective sources come to you.

If not go to your gym buddy and ask if "he" will let you get in touch with his sources directly or do you a favor.

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 12:50 PM

OK I will wait, maybe someone will PM me.

Thanks a lot ntpadude. How do you quote by the way

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-11-2003, 01:40 PM

Bro, for my first cycle, I did EQ, Test. I got no bloat and with a lose dose, I transformed my body. I know you want to start ASAP, but in the long run you will be a happier person if you wait and get the correct stuff. Be careful if you get PM's. A lot of bro's out there just waiting to scam you....Make sure you PM a mod with the sources name.

**noobie** · 11-11-2003, 01:52 PM

Thanks bro

**BigSexy50** · 11-11-2003, 03:14 PM

Mudman, why do you recommend nolva over liquidex ?? Can you use both ??? What is most effective ??

**Nailer** · 11-11-2003, 03:21 PM

Sounds like guy at gym only carries Equipose and wants to get rid of it. I suggest you rely on the suggestions/info here at AR. Good luck

**TheMudMan** · 11-11-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by BigSexy50

Mudman, why do you recommend nolva over liquidex ?? Can you use both ??? What is most effective ??

I like nolva because it's a good anti-e, it helps with your lipids, and it still allows for some conversion of estrogen but stops it from binding to receptor sites. liquidex stops conversion all together and unless you are prone to gyno, running a heavier cycle, or know you bloat badly I don't think it's needed. I feel the little bit of estrogen is good........... JMO

Yes you can use both l-dex and nolva........ I'm running both in my cycle now.

**Consistency** · 11-11-2003, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

"you might possibly even have health damaging effects from the zero testosterone while on cycle (like osteoporosis of the bones, excessive shrinking of dick and balls, with testosterone actually your dick/balls wont shrink as much as with an EQ "only" cycle).

i thought only your balls would shrink.... your dick also????

**Phyll** · 11-11-2003, 07:05 PM

bump... I want to know exactly what shrinks too lol

**someday** · 11-11-2003, 07:20 PM

dick wont shrink just the balls...

I'd say if your up for it noob why not a 6 week test prop only cycle....little bloat but still great gains and recovery shouldn't be that bad you could start clomid the day after last shot and have the entire cycle done with in 9 weeks just to get your feet wet. The prop will hurt more then test e or cyp but if your worried about bloat thats the way i'd go. Also somebody correct me if im wrong but nolva will do nothing for fina gyno if i remember correctly...i believe you need bromo to counter it because its progesterone related.