Hard Gainer

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 12:44 PM

I have been off my 2nd cycle of Test200 for 4 weeks now. While on my cycle, my strength increased drastically but weight gain was minimal. My metabolism is extremely fast. I'm 5'10" and weigh 160lbs. Obviously the Test200 isn't for me when it comes to gaining size. If anyone out there has been through what I'm going through, I would appreciate any advice on which form to take for more weight gain.

**tmeoe** · 11-14-2003, 12:49 PM

well first off post all this info for us, so we can help you out more:

Age
Training experience
exact cycle's done (compund, dose, length)
exact diet (meals, pro, carbs, fat, cals)
training split

Hard to tell where you went wrong with the info you provided

**TheMudMan** · 11-14-2003, 01:56 PM

It's all in the diet............ AS is only there to help. Diet is the main reason most cycles fail.

**Da Bull** · 11-14-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's all in the diet............ AS is only there to help. Diet is the main reason most cycles fail.

Words well spoken

**realityarts** · 11-14-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's all in the diet............ AS is only there to help. Diet is the main reason most cycles fail.

Those people who don't eat enough to gain mass should take extra close note of what Mud wrote, because you're likely to even eat less thinking that the juice will carry you. Not so - you have to eat good food and a lot of it.

I'd also add that rest/sleep/recovery is also very important.

RA

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by tmeoe

well first off post all this info for us, so we can help you out more:

Age
Training experience
exact cycle's done (compund, dose, length)
exact diet (meals, pro, carbs, fat, cals)
training split

Hard to tell where you went wrong with the info you provided

Age: 30
Test200: 1cc a week for 10 weeks
I don't really pay that much attention to what I eat. Basically I eat whatever, I try to stay healthy, but frequently stray away. 5 small meals a day and 300 calorie Protien shakes in between meals. I do focus on getting enough protien daily.
I work out 6 days a week. Alternating chest, bi's, and tri's one day, and shoulders, back, and legs the other.
I've lifted weights since early high school and am very physical. I recently retired from the commercial fishing indusrty in Alaska, which is very physical but there was NO recovery time while working. Just want to bulk up now. Thanks for getting back to me so quick!

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

It's all in the diet............ AS is only there to help. Diet is the main reason most cycles fail.

Thanks for the input. Time to start writing down what I'm taking in. Do you think the test200 @ 1cc a week for 10 weeks is good for weight gain?

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by realityarts

Those people who don't eat enough to gain mass should take extra close note of what Mud wrote, because you're likely to even eat less thinking that the juice will carry you. Not so - you have to eat good food and a lot of it.

I'd also add that rest/sleep/recovery is also very important.

RA

Noted. Thank you for the reply.

**TheMudMan** · 11-14-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by denali

Thanks for the input. Time to start writing down what I'm taking in. Do you think the test200 @ 1cc a week for 10 weeks is good for weight gain?

No I would have ran 400mg for 10 weeks

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

No I would have ran 400mg for 10 weeks

All in one day or split it up?

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 11-14-2003, 02:56 PM

400mg 200mg 2x a week.

Everyone is a hardgainer!

If your not gaining (natural or on AAS) check your diet and training.

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

400mg 200mg 2x a week.

Everyone is a hardgainer!

If your not gaining (natural or on AAS) check your diet and training.

OK, I'll try it like that. Thanks.

**denali** · 11-14-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by whiteykauai

i am a total hard gainer i eat so much...you just really need to dedicate yourself, i did a 4 weeker of dbol and gained 6 pounds, now weeks later kept it all and still gaining naturally now, you just need to eat a lot of good protein carbs and fat, it really isnt hard

Eat, eat, eat. Thnx for the reply.

**BASK8KACE** · 11-14-2003, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by denali

Age: 30
Test200: 1cc a week for 10 weeks
I don't really pay that much attention to what I eat. Basically I eat whatever, I try to stay healthy, but frequently stray away. 5 small meals a day and 300 calorie Protien shakes in between meals. I do focus on getting enough protien daily.
I work out 6 days a week. Alternating chest, bi's, and tri's one day, and shoulders, back, and legs the other.
I've lifted weights since early high school and am very physical. I recently retired from the commercial fishing indusrty in Alaska, which is very physical but there was NO recovery time while working. Just want to bulk up now. Thanks for getting back to me so quick!

Denali,

Based on what you've written in your posts in this thread, there is a lot more you need to examine before you look at changing your doses.

Three things immediately jump out at me about your training, diet, rest and cycle. I have highlighted them in crimson in the above quote and I have commented on them below:

1. Regarding diet "Basically I eat whatever"
You might think you're getting enough calories, but you most likely are not. I have spoken to people in my gym who estimated that they were eating 4000 calories per day. When I got them to write out one or two days of what they had eaten it came close to 2000. That's a BIG difference. If you really want to grow you need to take time to KNOW what you're eating. Yes, this does mean that you need to count calories and the amount of protein you're getting. If you want more info on creating a diet, checkout my 4th post in the following thread:
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ghlight=advice

2. Regarding workout regime--6 days per week, each part 3x's per week:
That's a hell of a lot of training!
You're not giving your body enough time to rest. You're body grows when it's at rest, not while you're in the gym. You need to go to the gym, tear the muscle down by lifting with intensity, then you MUST REST to let your body repair itself and grow. If you continue to go to the gym 6 days per week, you will eventually hit the brick wall of overtraining. When you overtrain you become lethargic, unmotivated, moody/depressed...your body won't grow and your immune system becomes repressed (ie you'll get sick easily).

My advice to you is that you start training each body part 1x per week (except for abs and calves which can be trained almost every day). For example:
--Day 1: Chest/Triceps/Abs
--Day 2: Back/Shoulders/Abs
--Day 3: Rest
--Day 4: Hamstrings/(Lower Back)/Calves/Abs
--Day 5: Quads/Biceps/Abs
--Day 6: Rest
--Day 7: Rest

Stick with this routine for at least 2 months. After 2 months you can increase some body parts to 2 times per week. If you become tired or feel overtrained, go back to training body parts once per week.

3. Regarding training in general:
I don't know your workout regime, but here are some general tips that have helped others:
--Are you are using very heavy weights with bad form? You might be able to move heavy weights but if your form is bad, then you aren't tearing down the muscles for maximum growth. Solution: lower the weight and use Correct, strict form.
--Are you working out with the right amount of intensity? With out intensity, the muscle won’t grow--it must be challenged. Solution: Vary your form (stop using momentum or cheating) and increase your weights until you are doing sets with strict form in which you fail at the 6th - 15th rep.

4. Regarding dose:
Stop believing the myth that more steroids is better.
You should be able to gain on 200mg of testosterone per week. That's more than twice what your body makes normally. However, if you don't eat, sleep and work out correctly, you are not going to get any reasonable gains. You can raise the dose and suddenly see SLIGHTLY more gains, but you're doing yourself a disservice by not getting your nutrition/workout/rest in order first. Don't misunderstand, me...400mg per week is a reasonable dose, but don't blame your lack of growth on your dose of testosterone, because there are several things that you have not addressed regarding your rest, diet and workout.

**groverman1** · 11-14-2003, 07:39 PM

Excellent advice bro, every aspect must be monitored. If not you will def be disappointed. AS is only one part of the puzzle, bottom line.

**Ntpadude** · 11-14-2003, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

400mg 200mg 2x a week.

Everyone is a hardgainer!

If your not gaining (natural or on AAS) check your diet and training.

I think you need to eat enough to gain weight even if not on a cycle... The cycle tends to stear the weight gain more towards muscle gain rather then fat gain.

**denali** · 11-15-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by BASK8KACE

Denali,

Based on what you've written in your posts in this thread, there is a lot more you need to examine before you look at changing your doses.

Three things immediately jump out at me about your training, diet, rest and cycle. I have highlighted them in crimson in the above quote and I have commented on them below:

1. Regarding diet "Basically I eat whatever"
You might think you're getting enough calories, but you most likely are not. I have spoken to people in my gym who estimated that they were eating 4000 calories per day. When I got them to write out one or two days of what they had eaten it came close to 2000. That's a BIG difference. If you really want to grow you need to take time to KNOW what you're eating. Yes, this does mean that you need to count calories and the amount of protein you're getting. If you want more info on creating a diet, checkout my 4th post in the following thread:
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ghlight=advice

2. Regarding workout regime--6 days per week, each part 3x's per week:
That's a hell of a lot of training!
You're not giving your body enough time to rest. You're body grows when it's at rest, not while you're in the gym. You need to go to the gym, tear the muscle down by lifting with intensity, then you MUST REST to let your body repair itself and grow. If you continue to go to the gym 6 days per week, you will eventually hit the brick wall of overtraining. When you overtrain you become lethargic, unmotivated, moody/depressed...your body won't grow and your immune system becomes repressed (ie you'll get sick easily).

My advice to you is that you start training each body part 1x per week (except for abs and calves which can be trained almost every day). For example:
--Day 1: Chest/Triceps/Abs
--Day 2: Back/Shoulders/Abs
--Day 3: Rest
--Day 4: Hamstrings/(Lower Back)/Calves/Abs
--Day 5: Quads/Biceps/Abs
--Day 6: Rest
--Day 7: Rest

Stick with this routine for at least 2 months. After 2 months you can increase some body parts to 2 times per week. If you become tired or feel overtrained, go back to training body parts once per week.

3. Regarding training in general:
I don't know your workout regime, but here are some general tips that have helped others:
--Are you are using very heavy weights with bad form? You might be able to move heavy weights but if your form is bad, then you aren't tearing down the muscles for maximum growth. Solution: lower the weight and use Correct, strict form.
--Are you working out with the right amount of intensity? With out intensity, the muscle won’t grow--it must be challenged. Solution: Vary your form (stop using momentum or cheating) and increase your weights until you are doing sets with strict form in which you fail at the 6th - 15th rep.

4. Regarding dose:
Stop believing the myth that more steroids is better.
You should be able to gain on 200mg of testosterone per week. That's more than twice what your body makes normally. However, if you don't eat, sleep and work out correctly, you are not going to get any reasonable gains. You can raise the dose and suddenly see SLIGHTLY more gains, but you're doing yourself a disservice by not getting your nutrition/workout/rest in order first. Don't misunderstand, me...400mg per week is a reasonable dose, but don't blame your lack of growth on your dose of testosterone, because there are several things that you have not addressed regarding your rest, diet and workout.

Wow, it seems pretty clear to me where I'm going wrong. It's not in just one aspect of my training though, it's in a few, that you addressed. Thanks for taking the time to reply back with such description. I'm changing everything up.

**BASK8KACE** · 11-15-2003, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by denali

Wow, it seems pretty clear to me where I'm going wrong. It's not in just one aspect of my training though, it's in a few, that you addressed. Thanks for taking the time to reply back with such description. I'm changing everything up.

I'm glad it helped, Denali.

Keep us posted on your progress!