gear alone doesnt make you grow

**Nailer** · 11-16-2003, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

Lifting to failure every time is hard on the nervous system (especially with naturals). The CNS takes a long time to recover from going to failure.

But yeah, you have to progressivly increase the amount of weight you use to see continued muscle growth. I think it's better to do it without reaching failure though.

....you also work out 20 mins a day....

IMHO, hit the weights harder..

**TheMudMan** · 11-16-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle

i think a lot of people don't lift heavy enough for low reps to get big. I see a lot of people at the gym complaining that they don't get big, but I watch them workout and each set is 10+ reps and not even to failure. Besides warmups and cool downs, most of my lifts are between the 2-5 rep range.

diet is also key, especially if your body type is an ecto or endomorph. those people have to really down the calories to increase mass.

See this is also not the same for everyone............ For me training heavy is 6 to 8 reps............. I would not grow on 2 reps.......... or at least not see the gains I wanted to see.................... Training must be by the individual because evryone has different genetics.

Diet is key............... no way around it. You can have your resting, training, and all the gear you want but if diet isn't where it should be then you will not grow. No way around it.

This is a good thread and I see a lot of great points being brought up.

**tmeoe** · 11-16-2003, 10:19 AM

I use to think i had my diet in check, but after reading through the threads here last summer i realized i wasn't eating nearly enough. At first the thought of 4000cals a day just seemed insane and i would feel like i was about to burst after eating that much. Then after awhile my body got used to it and now if i don't get that much i just don't feel right.

The point is that you shouldn't go into your cycle unless your diet has been in check for awhile. If it isn't you could still gain 10lbs or so just from increasing your diet 1000cals.

**TheMudMan** · 11-16-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by tmeoe

The point is that you shouldn't go into your cycle unless your diet has been in check for awhile. If it isn't you could still gain 10lbs or so just from increasing your diet 1000cals.

Yes a lot of guys think they are at their "natural" limit but really they are not. It's their diet that keeps them from reaching it in most cases if not all.

**Ntpadude** · 11-16-2003, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

See this is also not the same for everyone............ For me training heavy is 6 to 8 reps............. I would not grow on 2 reps.......... or at least not see the gains I wanted to see.................... Training must be by the individual because everyone has different genetics.

Diet is key............... no way around it. You can have your resting, training, and all the gear you want but if diet isn't where it should be then you will not grow. No way around it.

This is a good thread and I see a lot of great points being brought up.

I dont gain anything on fewer reps... I have to admit I havent tinkered with what works for me naturally since I started a cycle but naturally I gain the most using larger number of reps and somewhat lighter weights. I have tried the maximum lift in 6-8 reps thing and it just doesnt seem to earn in as many gains for me.

**Ntpadude** · 11-16-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by tmeoe

I use to think i had my diet in check, but after reading through the threads here last summer i realized i wasn't eating nearly enough. At first the thought of 4000cals a day just seemed insane and i would feel like i was about to burst after eating that much. Then after awhile my body got used to it and now if i don't get that much i just don't feel right.

The point is that you shouldn't go into your cycle unless your diet has been in check for awhile. If it isn't you could still gain 10lbs or so just from increasing your diet 1000cals.

I have a hard time keeping my digestive system from just packing out... its like I eat so much and whey sometimes slows you down as milk, whey and cheese products can be a constipator, after about a week I just have to force myself to sit on the toilet and force it out... this weekend I took a few too many flax seed caps on purpose to loosen things up and damn, dumped 6 lbs into the toilet just on saturday... oh well this is one of those pretty subjects that are almost better left unsaid, but after emptying out, my appetite returned big time and its left me hungrier then I've been in a couple weeks.

**rainbowsheep** · 11-16-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nailer

....you also work out 20 mins a day....

IMHO, hit the weights harder..

What does my lifting 20 minutes a day have to do with CNS taking a long time to recover after reaching failure?

***asymmetrical1*** · 11-16-2003, 10:44 PM

i can't get through quads in a 1hour 45 minute session

**rainbowsheep** · 11-16-2003, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by whiteykauai

there is no way that you can get a real workout by lifting weights for 20 minutes, it just doesnt seem feasible...rainbow you should work out 2 groups of body, and be in the gym for atleast an hour

Sure there is. Pick three to four exercises.

Example: Squats, Deads, Chinups or Incline Bench.

Do 3 sets of 6 or 8. There plently of time in twenty to thirty minutes if you don't screw around (I don't include warmup in the twenty minutes). Repeat four to five times a week.

Generally, I like to do full-body workouts, as I feel they keep me in better shape.

***asymmetrical1*** · 11-16-2003, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

Sure there is. Pick three to four exercises.

Example: Squats, Deads, Chinups or Incline Bench.

Do 3 sets of 6 or 8. There plently of time in twenty to thirty minutes if you don't screw around (I don't include warmup in the twenty minutes). Repeat four to five times a week.

Generally, I like to do full-body workouts, as I feel they keep me in better shape.

maybe if i was dennis james and had people to move weights for me....
i spend 20 min a workout moving weights

**rainbowsheep** · 11-16-2003, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by asymmetrical1

i can't get through quads in a 1hour 45 minute session

How often do you do that quad workout?

From the research I've read, protein synthesis returns to normal at about two (or sometimes three) days after working out.

***asymmetrical1*** · 11-16-2003, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

How often do you do that quad workout?

From the research I've read, protein synthesis returns to normal at about two (or sometimes three) days after working out.

2 times a week

**Ntpadude** · 11-16-2003, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by rainbowsheep

How often do you do that quad workout?

From the research I've read, protein synthesis returns to normal at about two (or sometimes three) days after working out.

I tried a few months at different rates and I found for myself, the best results come from 2 days off between workouts, I disregard the 7 day week so one so my workout day rotates thru the days of the week. Did the short workout everyday, the eod day stuff... I found it was better to workout everything and take 2 days to heal/grow/recover. Plus workout chest, go immediately to legs, chest rests while doing legs then back to chest, then arms, do other parts of legs... can keep busy right along and of course you have to stop every so often and take a 10 minute break because like chest exercise also works arms, so when you have every muscle needing a 10 minute then everything has to stop for a few. Then you can get the muscles near the others worked out earlier...

**rainbowsheep** · 11-16-2003, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by whiteykauai

this is my work out cycle
day1 back/traps/abs
day2 chest/shoulders/calves
day3 rest
day4 legs/abs
day5 arms
day6 rest
then repeat, i am never in the gym for less than an hour, this is a killer routine

I would think that your muscles would get detrained after seven days.

Of course, I'm used to natural lifting physiology. I'm not very read-up on AAS-assisted lifting, unfortunately.

**BASK8KACE** · 11-17-2003, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by depdaddy

...some young guys in their 20s think if they take 250mg test a week they will grow..all they have done is shut down their nat production and re-placed it with synthetic test...Depdaddy

Depdaddy,

I agree with the spirit of your post, but the statement you made above is not correct.

Warrior already mentioned this, but I want to chime in on this too, because this is a myth that's still running rampid.

250mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone per week (such as cypionate or enanthate ) is far more than twice the amount of testosterone in the normally functioning male body. Depending on whether a man's testosterone level is at the high or low end of the normal range, 250mg of test per week could be more than triple the normal amount. So, 250mg of test per week does far more than just shut down a person's system and replace it with an equivalent amount of synthetic testosterone. A person can certainly make dramatic muscular changes using 2-3 times the amount of testosterone needed to function normally--IF diet, rest and lifting intensity/form are correct.