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  1. #1
    Leroy Brown is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001

    permanent atrophy?

    Hi guys. My friend did a cycle of andro last summer and his balls shrunk from it and never returned to their original size. He's doing his first real juice cycle now. He has clomid for post cycle. Do you think his balls would come back with the clomid post cycle? I thought it would be a good idea for him to take a shot of hcg NOW, so he doesn't have permanent atrophy. What do you think?

  2. #2
    bex's Avatar
    bex is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    crown jewels.......
    Muscle growth, testicular Atrophy,
    and other odds and ends...

    by Jose Antonio, Ph.D.

    Mmm...what can possibly shrink your family jewels but enhance your
    physique and make those of the fairer sex turn their heads to check out your

    Androgens, steroids , anabolic steroids, or anabolic-androgenic steroids. A rose
    by any other know the rest! All the above terms refer basically to
    the same compound. Perhaps you know them best as "roids", "juice", "gear"
    or some other pet name that only you and the needle know.

    First of all, what is a steroid ? All steroid hormones are derived from
    cholesterol? Yeah, big bad cholesterol, contributor to the number one cause of
    death in the U.S. But we all need cholesterol for LIFE and of course, for steroid
    synthesis. If you were to look at the molecular structure of cholesterol and all
    of the hormones derived from it, you would see how structurally similar all
    steroids are. In fact, if you looked at the structure of testosterone (the male sex
    hormone) vs. estradiol (the female sex hormone), you'd be shocked to see how
    similar they are! Without getting into any intense biochemistry, all it takes is
    one chemical step via an aromatase enzyme to convert muscle-building
    testosterone into fat-depositing estradiol.

    The word steroid, does not differentiate between the female sex steroids
    (collectively called estrogens) and the male sex steroids (collectively called
    androgens). So if someone comes up to you at the gym asking if you've used
    steroids, just let them know that you leave the birth control medications in
    the hands of your significant other. (They'll likely leave with a dazed and
    confused look...)

    ANDROGENS. If you look up the word androgen in any medical dictionary
    you will see that it is typically defined as "a substance which produces or
    stimulates the development of male characteristics." Testosterone, is the most
    important androgen, and its effects have been divided into what are referred to
    as anabolic and androgenic effects. Anabolic effects refer to the stimulation of
    skeletal muscle mass growth in adult humans while the androgenic effects are
    those which "masculinize" (i.e. put hair on your chest, so to speak)

    Now way back when, someone had a brilliant idea. Let's separate the anabolic
    from the androgenic effects. I mean who needs extra hair on their backs and
    knuckles anyways. Let's make these steroids purely anabolic (hence, the term
    anabolic steroids ). Well, it was a nice idea, but it has not been shown that you
    can completely separate these two characteristics. All androgens have both
    anabolic AND androgenic effects. In fact, all of these androgens interact with
    the SAME RECEPTOR sites in skeletal muscle.

    Anabolic vs. Androgenic Properties

    Like I said before, it is impossible to completely separate the androgenic
    (masculinizing) and anabolic (muscle-building) effects of androgens. The way
    scientists examine an androgen's anabolic vs. androgenic properties is to
    compare the growth response of the prostate vs. that of the levator ani muscle
    when an animal is treated with an androgen. For example, when you
    compare straight testosterone vs. the nandrolones (ex. Deca -Durabolin ), you'll
    see that the nandrolones have 80% less of an effect on the prostate but had
    240% greater anabolic effects on skeletal muscle!! Could this be why so many
    bodybuilders love Deca?

    So yes, there are certain androgens which have different anabolic and
    androgenic properties, but suffice it to say that they all have both.

    Androgen Receptor Saturation

    And what about the notion that circulating levels of androgens at
    concentrations normally found in healthy, adult males is enough to saturate
    the androgen receptor? Remember the androgen receptor is located within
    muscle cells and the receptor binds to the androgen presented to the cell. The
    androgen acts as kind of a key and the receptor is the lock to a biological door.
    When that door is opened, it results in a myriad of biological processes, among
    which include MUSCLE GROWTH! Not all androgens will have equal effects
    on muscle EVEN THOUGH they all bind to the same receptor. It's like having
    many keys that open the same door, but certain keys just work better than

    So if the normal amount of circulating androgen is enough to saturate the
    androgen receptor (i.e., there are enough keys [hormone] to fit every lock
    [receptor]), then how can taking extra exogenous androgen produce a greater
    anabolic effect? The idea that taking extra androgen down-regulates (i.e.,
    decreases the level of androgen receptor protein) the androgen receptor is
    accepted by many scientists and has been popularized by many writers in the
    bodybuilding community. There is however one problem with this idea.
    There is evidence that the opposite may occur!

    See if you can follow this. If taking extra androgen, down-regulates the
    receptor, then removal of all androgen, should up-regulate (i.e., increase the
    level) the receptor. Well, guess what? That doesn't happen! In fact, if you
    remove all androgen. And the way we do this, at least in animals, is to castrate
    them, you know cut off the testes. In certain muscles, this causes a
    DOWN-REGULATION of the receptor while in others no change occurs.
    Furthermore, the re-administration of androgen UP-REGULATES the receptor
    in certain muscles.

    So it is possible, though not yet definitively shown, that taking high doses of
    androgens may actually up-regulate the androgen receptor. This may explain
    why modern bodybuilders grow to the monstrous sizes that they do. It's as if
    they are making their muscles more sensitive to effects of androgen!

    Bottom Line

    The compounds athletes take (to build muscle) are typically called anabolic
    steroids. All of these hormones have both anabolic and androgenic effects.
    And all anabolic steroids are androgens. If have read in numerous articles
    how some writers refer to testosterone as an androgen, but something like
    nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin) is not an androgen, but an anabolic
    steroid. Sorry, but they're wrong. I don't care if you take oxandrolone
    (Anavar ), nandrolone decanoate (Deca-Durabolin), stanozolol (Winstrol ),
    oxymethelone (Anadrol ), or the other hundred or so steroids derived from
    testosterone. THEY ARE ALL ANDROGENS!

    BTW, androgens or "roids" do cause your testes to shrink (not your penis,
    although many in the gym crowd believe so), but it is *usually* a temporary
    side effect. Once you've cycled off the stuff, your testes *should* resume their
    normal size.

    About the author:

    Jose Antonio, Ph.D. is an adjunct professor at University of Texas, Arlington
    and Dallas.

  3. #3
    REM is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001

    Re: permanent atrophy?

    Originally posted by Leroy Brown
    Hi guys. My friend did a cycle of andro last summer and his balls shrunk from it and never returned to their original size. He's doing his first real juice cycle now. He has clomid for post cycle. Do you think his balls would come back with the clomid post cycle? I thought it would be a good idea for him to take a shot of hcg NOW, so he doesn't have permanent atrophy. What do you think?
    hi leroy is this andro a pink small pill you talking about??

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