Off the sauce, on the juice. Second cycle.

**Lush** · 09-09-2001, 01:45 PM

Juicy colleagues,

Well I'm getting ready to order my gear for my second cycle, and wanted to see what you guys think. And to say thanks to the mods and vets and everybody who takes the time to share thier knowledge and good advice.
I haven't made alot of posts, but I have been following the board religiously for 4 months. I can't believe how much I've learned- I really was a dumb punk messing aroind with 'roids before that.

But alright, here's my background and my cycle plan:
5'8" 165lbs 25 yrs old. Don't know body fat, but estimate 15%.
Been working out on and off for probably 7 years.

my first (serious) cycle was sust 500/week. Got the work out routine and eating habits down pat. Very happy with the gains (despite serious beer intake during cycle).
I want to take it up a few levels now and bulk. not too worried about water retention- it's easy to lose post cycle.

I'm thinking

weeks 1-10
deca 400mg/week
sust250 500mg/week
-injections split into twice per week

weeks 1- 5
d-bol 25mg ED- 10 mg 2hrs before gym. The rest spread evenly

week 13
clomid 300day 1, 100 for the rest
clen

week 14
clomid 50mg ED
clen

week 15
clomid 50mg EOD
clen

90 pills novaldex on-hand.
With a good smattering of ECA days spread out through the whole cycle- I love the stuff.

Suppliments: Whey shakes, L-Glutamine 15g ED, B vitamins (ECA sucks B vitamins..)

The tough part is I have quit drinking. I'm on day 3 and it's not easy ( trust me- I drink alot...). Dreams of incredible juicy gains keep me motivated though.

After reading Iron Game's excellent sust vs. enth thread, I suspect enth 500mg/week would be a better choice than the sust, but I know I can do sust 500/week and not get gyno- so I'll play it safe. Baby steps.

what do you bro's think?

**PaPaPumP** · 09-09-2001, 02:07 PM

I gotta give you props for that one. Looks very good, all around. One thing though, I have heard a couple say that it is possible to get gyno from progestrone from the Deca . And nolva/arim/liq/prov dont combat prog. But, Winny is supposed to take care of extra prog. I'm sure at that dose you'll be fine, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in because you were very helpful to my past post . Anyone else?
-PaPaPumP

The Iron Game · 09-09-2001, 02:32 PM

I am not a fan of deca and with this cycle you have planned deca + dbol + test = water and so its only expected to lose quite a bit of weight post cycle.

I would defintely opt for a test + dbol + eq cycle instead for a number of reasons.

Enanthate is going to take a little while to reach amounts needed to bring growth with it so for this reason I would recommend front loading for the 2 weeks (Sustanon even longer to reach optimal amounts). If you want to use 500mgs throughout the cycle then start off with 750-1000mgs for the first 2 weeks. Dont worry just because you inject 1000mgs does not mean you are using 1000mgs of test. I would do something like this in relation to test:

Enanthate / Sustanon week 1: 750-1000mgs
Enanthate / Sustanon week 2: 750-1000mgs
Enanthate / Sustanon week 3 - 10: 500mgs

You can get away with injecting once a week but I always recommend splitting this up into at least every 5 days of shooting (this is also my preference with eq, deca, cyp)

As for the the dianabol

Week 1 & 2: 40mgs daily
Week 3: 30mgs daily
Week 4: 25mgs daily

Make sure you are dosing the dbol 4 hours apart throughout the day.

The Eq but also applies to the deca if you wish to use that:

Week 1 & 2: 600mgs
Week 3 - 10: 400mgs weekly

Clomid 3 weeks after your last injection:

Day 1: 300mgs daily
Day 2-10 100mgs daily
Day 11-21 50mgs daily

I would also recommend proviron to be ran at the same time as the clomid.

Nolvadex on hand and proviron 25mgs daily, if you start feeling you are holding too much water increase it to 50mgs daily. Again if 50mgs isnt enough then up to 75mgs. It will do no harm to come off the proviron mid cycle for a few weeks and then go back on. During this time off either add 10mgs nolva in there daily or just keep it on stand by.

Peace

btw if you didnt get gyno from sust at 500mgs then it will not develop from enanthate, if you do start suffering it defintely isnt from the test alone. besides that gyno is not even in the mix if you are using an aromatase inhibitor.

**Lush** · 09-09-2001, 02:47 PM

Thanks IG, good info. Some deffinate food for thought.

i have to take off now so, just a quick post. Yeah I wanted to get proviron , but my source doen't have it. He does have liquidex. It's a bit of an investment- but I may just do it.

Let me mull over your words and get back to you l8r.

I must say I do have a serious hard-on for Eq though....

**Nathan** · 09-09-2001, 05:27 PM

I think IG covered it. Except that I would try to find Liquidex instead of Proviron since it'll probably cost about the same except the Liquidex will last much longer (more than one cycle).

**Lush** · 09-09-2001, 05:37 PM

IG,

Thanks bro, I've been pondering it and I think that will be a great cycle. front loading looks good- I hadn't even considered that.

I'd really like to add an anti-aromatase too.

Proviron or liquidex? My source doen't have proviron, but I have another source I can try.

i think i'll just bite the bullet and buy the 20mL (4mg/mL) bottle of arimidex . It's a large initial investment, but running at .25mg/day, it will last 320 days. That's only $1.25/day (CDN bucks too).

Plus CYCLEON rants about it so much, I have to try it....

OK so few of questions:

1. What is the theory behing front loading. does larger initial concentration of enth mean yourbody metabolizes it faster so it starts kicking in well before week 4?

2. With the front loading, (when) will my test levels be higher they would from just enth500/Eq400. weeks 3 through 6?

3. How should I run the arimidex? .25mg/day for whole cycle starting on week 2?

Thanks for the sweet advice IronG.

**Nathan** · 09-09-2001, 05:57 PM

1. that's about right

2. it's hard to say since everyone's different and I'm not exactly sure of what you're asking here.

3. i think you'll find it's a bitch to measure out 1/16ml in order to get 0.25mg anasrtozole ED - try 1/8ml ED or EOD. also, start the Liquidex on day 1 - you are using d-bol and you'd be front-loading and it's just a good idea no matter what.

**Lush** · 09-09-2001, 06:21 PM

Thanks Nathan,

Yeah, 1/16mLis not much. Thought i'd try to find a half mL syringe. If i can't find one, yeah .5mg EOD sounds cool.

Sounds good- liquidex from day one it is.

about question #2. I try to explain better... Alright, test enth 500mg/ week over 10 weeks means around week 4 you should be averaging an extra 500mg's of test flowing in you until the enth starts dropping off after week 10.
The extra test level will be at 0 on day one of the cycle and probably ramp up pretty quick ( like withing a few days) to 500mg at around week 4.

If you up the first 2 weeks to 1000mg, then do you ever average more than 500 mg's in you? Or do you just have a nice smoother ramp up to 500mg on week 4?

I guess I was pretty much trying to get a feel for what a graph of test levels vs. time would look like with and without front loading.

**Nathan** · 09-09-2001, 08:07 PM

Basically, when you have front-load you have more test to de-esterify so that you have more free test in your system sooner and thus you are at therapeutic blood levels in perhaps even week 1.

CYCLEON · 09-10-2001, 12:03 AM

it looks good - I know IG isnt fond of deca (me either) but it looks sound.

1. agree with the front loading
2. without question get liquidex

otherwise - good research ahead of posting!!!!

**pureanger** · 09-10-2001, 06:08 AM

Its a foundation for you next cycle is goo i like to do 500 sust. 400 deca 600 eq and 50 mg of Dbal per day . Your choice on the deca debate but I would say bump your Dbal up to 40-50mg per day other than that everything looks great and looks like you spent alot of time researching this.

Mike · 09-10-2001, 09:44 AM

I dont taper dbol

**Lush** · 09-10-2001, 11:01 AM

Thanks for all the advice bro's. It's much appreciated.

As for tapering d-bol or not.... I plan on starting at 40/day, and then after week 1 or 2 I'll see how the liver is holding up and taper down to 25 or stay at 40 accordingly. (1000mg+ of milk thistle per day also).

My angry friend, thank for the good advice, but I don't know about 50mg/day. I only weigh a buck 65. I'm thinking 40 will be alot. I've never done more than 25/day actually.
Your cycle looks pretty sweet too...

Yeah I'm getting pretty pumped. hope to have all the gear assembled by end of next week- this is deffinately taking it up a few levels from anything I've done. I'll let you know how she goes.

Thanks bro's

CYCLEON · 09-10-2001, 01:09 PM

with those doses, especially if your going to frontload - no need to push the dbol above 40mg and 25mg is fine IMO

**pureanger** · 09-10-2001, 02:02 PM

I think if your hitting everything else at the mgs your hitting them then it wouldnt hurt to be hitting Dbal at 40-50mg per week
sorry CYCLEON to disagree but thats just my opinion LOL

CYCLEON · 09-10-2001, 03:47 PM

pureanger - YOU ARE NEVER ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH ME!!!!!, CANT U READ? IM A SUPER MOD - u cant ever disagree with a supermod

he.. he.. he...

now lets not let it happen again

when every one agrees on everythingm that begins to worry me - as long as u support ur reasons with objective proof or subjective experience, that what makes people think.

**pureanger** · 09-10-2001, 04:22 PM

BOWS TO SUPERMOD CYCLEON

**pureanger** · 09-10-2001, 04:24 PM

NIce smileyfaces makes you look tough hehehehe
just kidding bro

**Lush** · 09-21-2001, 12:54 PM

Well bro's,

My gear showed up last night. Finally!
2 bottles EQ, 3 bottles Test, lots of Naposim 'bols and one beautifull bottle of liquidex.

needless to say, i sucked back some naps and injected 500mgtest & 200mg Eq immediately.

I'm f*$#&ing pumped. can't wait for the naps to start kicking in. All those months of research finally coming into play.

Work seems like filler in between protein breaks now. So does everything outside work too.
I don't even think about broads anymore- just daydreaming about the next work out. (anybody else get like that?)

Thanks for all the advice bro's. I'll keep you guys posted on the upcoming gains.

peace,

**Pete235** · 09-21-2001, 12:58 PM

I'm excited for you bro...just make sure your diet is dialed in as well. You have to be just as militant about what you put in your mouth as you are about what you put in your glutes, delts and quads. Good luck, be safe...GET HUGE!!
Pete

**Lush** · 09-21-2001, 01:05 PM

yeah Pete, thanks for the encouragement-

I'm going for 300+g protein. plus 15g l-glutamine/day.
lots of tuna, cottage cheese, skim milk, chicken breast, eggs o'plenty (whites mostly), 3 whey proteins/day,+1 soy protein/day.

I'm even keeping a protein shake handy (Plus 1 d-bol) in the fridge at night for when i get up for pee breaks.