u can flame me/ but please answer this question

**Polska** · 02-08-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by chipper22

thanx man!!!

well is there anything i can do to minimize these sides b/c i have to do this for my photo shoot in 7 weeks and i cant get my hands on any test/ and could you clear up the question of will i be able to make natural gains after i am through w/ this cycle.

You'll be able to... but make sure to do pct properly. to minimize sides I'd definately take glucosamine for the joints..... plus lots of milk thistle and cranberry extract for the liver....

**scottninpo** · 02-08-2004, 01:12 PM

there's nothing i know of that you can take to help with the sides from winnie, other than glucosamine chondroitin, but like he said, it takes a month to kick in

**Devourer** · 02-08-2004, 01:13 PM

my roommate just looked at this and said hey great way to explode the joints! and my tendons hurt just thinkin about it! lol

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

Well, again, most guys will NOT advocate a Winstrol only cycle. But, If you must, I strongly suggest taking GLUCOSAMINE. I would start taking it a month before getting on Winstrol because it take that long for it to kick in and help your joints.

where can i get glucosamine????

**jbol** · 02-08-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

True!!! For under 200.00, you can easily get some test and run it in there along with it.

yes,a very very good idea......

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:19 PM

how could running test in there with it help me out/ wouldnt that make more sides???

**Devourer** · 02-08-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by chipper22

how could running test in there with it help me out/ wouldnt that make more sides???

the test would help out the joints for sure...

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:27 PM

would taking test with the winny cause it to be harder for my nat. test to kick back in after the cycle is over??

**Devourer** · 02-08-2004, 01:30 PM

im gonna say no cause you should run pct anyways...

**Shortyrock13** · 02-08-2004, 01:30 PM

To answer part of your question... winny alone, even at say 50mg eod, for 6 wks, u will notice some changes in your physical appearence that would probably not have been attainable in the same amount of time naturally.

Alot of guys on the board have a hard on for test(pardon the pun). For good reason, it makes you feel awesome, great gains, and for the most part if you're smart about things, very keepable.

Bro's here will always tell you... never cycle without test, blah blah. Not necessairly based on their own personal experience, but based upon what they've been told. Alot of info just keeps getting regurgitated without being questioned. True, test will help solidify gains of other compounds, as well as keep your soldier working during cycle. It will also bloat you (which can be controlled w/ anti-e's), and potentially give you tits(which also can be controlled).

But the fact is, during the so called 'golden age' of BB, the harder stuff was not messed with in the way it is today. I really don't think those guys were all up on test all the time, every cycle. If they were then I stand corrected. What Im getting at is that I'd rather look like Franco Columbo than Lee Priest.

The question you need to ask yourself is if the sides are worth the rewards. The V will harden you, and give you a good strength boost, size gain shouldn't be an issue really on V alone. It will also affect your joints, probably give you limp dick(when no test is present), and potentially affect your hair line.

Recovery time without Clomid? well longer than with clomid, but it's different for different people. I know bro's who have run several cycles w/out test (alot of winny onlies) and liked the results, and they said they felt fine after about 2 months(all the way back to normal). Though your individual results will probably vary.

In the end though, the most important thing in any cycle, regardless of what you're using, is your training(& recovery) and diet. If you're not trying to gain size on test, you need to be extra careful about your diet and keep cals low(u can cut with it, but its hard).

yes u can cycle winny without test, your results will not be as dramatic though. A total waste? probably not. I think of a total waste as a cycle where im essentially the same as I would be naturally had i trained similarly. Not doing PCT, not such a great idea, but again it will not kill you as its been done before and people eventually recover, but it can take a long time. And as anyone who has been on any test cycle, coming off and having the low test sucks. Thats what will happen when the winny shuts you down.

You can still get clomid from some of the still active liquid research companies and its not expensive. Peace.

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:35 PM

thanx for that post rock/ ok i am gonna do the winny only/ please tell me what i need to do to make my nat test kick back in when i am through/ please tell me what other precautions i can take. and also does winny always thin hair??

**scottninpo** · 02-08-2004, 01:35 PM

speaking from personal experience, cycling with out test is not worth it, yes, you will get some results, but nothing like you would if you had used test as a base, i'll say it again, it's not worth putting your body through the stress of aas, if you're not going to use test, trust me, i've been there, and shortyrock, great post

**scottninpo** · 02-08-2004, 01:38 PM

chipper, you're starting to piss me off, just like every other hard headed newbie, you come on here asking for our advice, when all you really want to here is that what you want to do is great, well fine, go ahead, do 150mg a week of winny, drink lots of cranbury juice and take glucosamine and run pct of clomid and nolva like i outlined in my previous post, let me ask you one question, why the hell did you ask for our opinion if you were only going to ignore it anyway?

**Devourer** · 02-08-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by scottninpo

speaking from personal experience, cycling with out test is not worth it, yes, you will get some results, but nothing like you would if you had used test as a base, i'll say it again, it's not worth putting your body through the stress of aas, if you're not going to use test, trust me, i've been there, and shortyrock, great post

ill second that. personally ive run things without test. and i WONT do it again. yes its possible to run anything by itself. and you will make better gains then natural MOST of the time. but just like you can go into the gym and lift like a jackass and still make gains you can make better gains if you go to the gym and know what you're doing.

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:42 PM

i can see where your coming from/ but i am not trying to piss you off. i really have to do something for this photo shoot and i dont want to take the risk of running to many drugs. i am scared all of that will mess me up to bad. i dont see how test w/ winny can be better than just winny if i am not wanting to get bigger. man dont get mad i'm just trying to understand some sh1t

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:44 PM

i dont want major gains/ i dont think yall understand that i just want to harden up??

**jbol** · 02-08-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by chipper22

thanx for that post rock/ ok i am gonna do the winny only/ please tell me what i need to do to make my nat test kick back in when i am through/ please tell me what other precautions i can take. and also does winny always thin hair??

big mistake bro,and youll find out you really should have listened to the bros.

**Devourer** · 02-08-2004, 01:46 PM

it takes ALOT of TIME to get big man. ive been consistently lifting and juicin for years and im by no means big. personally i dont think you are ready to juice. find a good diet and exercise routine and stick to it religiously. and in the meantime research research research. by the way whats your training history and stats?

**scottninpo** · 02-08-2004, 01:46 PM

sorry bro, i'm just a little ansy cause my cycle is going to start in a week and i'm excited, if you're just looking to harden up, just go with the cardio and diet, you'll be fine, no need for the winstrol , maybe use an eca stack as well

**jbol** · 02-08-2004, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by chipper22

i can see where your coming from/ but i am not trying to piss you off. i really have to do something for this photo shoot and i dont want to take the risk of running to many drugs. i am scared all of that will mess me up to bad. i dont see how test w/ winny can be better than just winny if i am not wanting to get bigger. man dont get mad i'm just trying to understand some sh1t

once again, you dont HAVE to do aas,and if your worried about messing yourself up,you can and probably will mess yourself up without any test

**chipper22** · 02-08-2004, 01:53 PM

no problem bro/ i know yall are gettin pissed off w/ my post but i am trying to do the research- you see i have been naturaly for over 5 years and i always gain muscle and then lose it while cutting. i dont lose all of it but i lose some.. and when i do get cut i dont have that hard, muscle bulging look. that is what i am looking for. you see i have a 30 year old friend who tells me winstrol will give me what i am looking for b/c he has been there and done it. he also says what i do gain off of winstrol i will be able to keep. i dont wanna run the test b/c i can get big naturally/ its just i cant get the cut look i want.?
sorry for aggin this on fellas, but i am really wanting that hard look.

**scottninpo** · 02-08-2004, 02:03 PM

sounds to me like it's your diet and workout routine that's holding you back, you probably restict cals too much when cutting and try to cut too quick and lose muscle because of it, read up in the diets forum, lots of great info in there about natural cutting and bulking, 7 weeks is plenty of time to get where you want

**musclehead1** · 02-08-2004, 02:04 PM

not sure if this applies to winny but if u do a cycle arent u gonna be breaking out and that isnt goin to be good for ur photo shoot. Also is tha guy at the gym the same guy that sold u the winny because if it is he may jus be trying to make a buck outta u.