PWO Simple Carbs

[tunedx]

I'm not sure weather it matters or not but is there ideal simple carb for post-workout meals? I usually consume anything from banana, rasains, pear, or apple.

Any idea weather detrox (corn sugar) is recommended?

[gbrice75]

Dextrose? Depending on who you ask, it's a pretty popular PWO simple carb. Alot of people will do 50/50 dextrose/maltodextrin.

Currently you're eating fruit which is not the best choice. Fructose doesn't do much at all to restore muscle glycogen, rather it is mainly used to replenish liver glycogen. Not what you want PWO.

Personally, i'm a fan of complex carbs PWO, regardless of cutting/bulking. Oats are my #1 choice.

[tunedx]

Pwo is normally fast burning carbs. I read this everywhere! What combo of complex/simple carbs? Can elaborate why u choose complex carbs?

[gbrice75]

Pwo is normally fast burning carbs. I read this everywhere! What combo of complex/simple carbs? Can elaborate why u choose complex carbs?

Definitely not true!! There are plenty of people who use complex carbs PWO. Furthermore, it depends on the goal. I don't use simple for anything, but I would NEVER use them on a cutting diet.

Simple carbs create a spike in insulin . This is sometimes a desirable effect, because insulin is a very anabolic hormone and responsible for shuttling nutrients into muscle cells. Unfortunately, insulin is also responsible for shuttling nutrients into fat cells. When insulin is spiked, there is a greater chance of storing bodyfat.

Complex carbs will still cause insulin activity, but not a huge spike. Complex carbs help keep blood glucose levels more stable, which overall is better IMO. Basically, spiking insulin isn't worth the negative effects it causes. It will not make that much of a difference with regards to muscle growth anyway.

Make sure your diet is on point and you are getting plenty of PWO nutrition. All of this other stuff is labored over way too much IMO, and most of the time it's by people who don't even have good diets to begin with. Bad diet + simple PWO carbs = no gains.

[Damienm05]

^^ Good post. Listen to the man.

[Bob segal]

that's not true about your theory on fat gain from insulin spike.

its called anabolic window which u already know about, at that time you are in a catabolic state(muscle tear down) simples carbs(sugar) consumed with fast acting protein, gets you out of catabolic and into anti catabolic that's your GOAL (quick as possible cutting or bulking), and that's why you consume solid food(complex carbs) later on, since it takes a good hour and half to fully digest and use nurients. when you train a muscle it will act like a sponge to the pwo simple carb/protein drink, and u need to get the accurate number of carbs so there isnt any overspill of unwanted simple carbs that would contribute to fat gain

[Damienm05]

that's not true about your theory on fat gain from insulin spike.

its called anabolic window which u already know about, at that time you are in a catabolic state(muscle tear down) simples carbs(sugar) consumed with fast acting protein, gets you out of catabolic and into anti catabolic that's your GOAL (quick as possible cutting or bulking), and that's why you consume solid food(complex carbs) later on, since it takes a good hour and half to fully digest and use nurients. when you train a muscle it will act like a sponge to the pwo simple carb/protein drink, and u need to get the accurate number of carbs so there isnt any overspill of unwanted simple carbs that would contribute to fat gain

Very 1998. They used to think leeches were a good medical treatment too.

[baseline_9]

that's not true about your theory on fat gain from insulin spike.

its called anabolic window which u already know about, at that time you are in a catabolic state(muscle tear down) simples carbs(sugar) consumed with fast acting protein, gets you out of catabolic and into anti catabolic that's your GOAL (quick as possible cutting or bulking), and that's why you consume solid food(complex carbs) later on, since it takes a good hour and half to fully digest and use nurients. when you train a muscle it will act like a sponge to the pwo simple carb/protein drink, and u need to get the accurate number of carbs so there isnt any overspill of unwanted simple carbs that would contribute to fat gain

You cannot make a statment that GB is incorrct with the point he made obout insulin spiking increasing fat gain without backing it up

You have not backed up your first statment with that post bro...

[songdog]

this stuff is a lil over my head.

[tunedx]

that's not true about your theory on fat gain from insulin spike.

its called anabolic window which u already know about, at that time you are in a catabolic state(muscle tear down) simples carbs(sugar) consumed with fast acting protein, gets you out of catabolic and into anti catabolic that's your GOAL (quick as possible cutting or bulking), and that's why you consume solid food(complex carbs) later on, since it takes a good hour and half to fully digest and use nurients. when you train a muscle it will act like a sponge to the pwo simple carb/protein drink, and u need to get the accurate number of carbs so there isnt any overspill of unwanted simple carbs that would contribute to fat gain

I've heard this method before. Consume pwo meal consisting of simple carbs and fast acting protein and within hour eat meal rich in complex carbs and solid protein.

[tunedx]

So whats the final outcome? Complex carbs or simple carbs along with full meal within hour?

[baseline_9]

So whats the final outcome? Complex carbs or simple carbs along with full meal within hour?

Its goal dependent aswell...

Cutting i would say stick to complex

If your looking to gain weight then you could do either...

When i get back on the gaining weight thing i will be consuming cooked oats and whey PWO

[gbrice75]

that's not true about your theory on fat gain from insulin spike.

its called anabolic window which u already know about, at that time you are in a catabolic state(muscle tear down) simples carbs(sugar) consumed with fast acting protein, gets you out of catabolic and into anti catabolic that's your GOAL (quick as possible cutting or bulking), and that's why you consume solid food(complex carbs) later on, since it takes a good hour and half to fully digest and use nurients. when you train a muscle it will act like a sponge to the pwo simple carb/protein drink, and u need to get the accurate number of carbs so there isnt any overspill of unwanted simple carbs that would contribute to fat gain

Your first mistake is making the above statements as if they are fact. Notice in my post, I gave my OPINION and what I believe works best.

Having said that, I partially agree - the 'anabolic window' is well known and after an intense workout, your muscles are definitely primed for nutrient uptake. That does not mean that gaining fat due to spiking insulin is automatically impossible. Who says every last bit of nutrients go 100% to your muscles? What's the magic number? 50g carbs? 75g?

It boils down to individual goals, and most importantly what works best for your own body. I am genetically predisposed to adding bodyfat, so simple carbs will never be an option for me. For others, they work great.

PS - one last bit on this - spiking insulin also increases your chances of becoming more insulin resistant over time. This is another negative effect I was referring to earlier. Again, I don't find that the (perceived) benefits of spiking insulin outweigh the negatives.

Very 1998. They used to think leeches were a good medical treatment too.

Lmao! They also used to refer to Coca Cola as a 'health tonic' !!!

[baseline_9]

I actually prefer to atempt to spike insulin pre workout in an attempt to hault the release of cortisol while training...

Dextrose, glutamine, bCAA's, creatine will remain as a pre workout drik for me when gaining or cutting...

[I_Want_Abs]

It all depends on the individual and their goals. What has worked before and what your current diet is like....

I have cut down mid last year on a semi keto diet consuming nothing but protein and fats in my shake pwo.

Then we come to this year and I am nearing the end of my contest prep now (only 5 more weeks!) and have only yesterday traded my pwo shake of WPI + Casein + coco pops for solid food consisting of egg whites and oats. I was still dropping weight using coco pops (Hi GI carbs!) and still would be, however I prefer to keep my meals all whole food now due to such restricted calories.

I guess what I am trying to say is, there are many ways to get from point A to B. Some ways work for people while others don't. Get your diet in check, do some research and trial and error. You'll soon see what works for YOU! I'm doing my whole contest prep diet myself, guess where that came from.... Years of trial and error and finally knowing how my body reacts to what I eat and do.

[Swifto]

I regularly eat fruit PWO, banana's mainly in my PWO shake.

You guys dont think that taking in protein and fats PWO will slow or decrease the rise in insulin PWO?

Muscle glycogen also isnt going to be restored immediately PWO.

There are many ways to skin a cat PWO. Some pretty knowledgeable minds advise taking in simple carbs PWO, Dorian to name one. There are also a few nutritionists at PM.com they also suggest or advise clients on taking simple carbs, protein and a small amount of fat PWO.

[baseline_9]

Swifto has touched on a good point that I have talked about before…

Muscle glycogen will NOT be replenished PWO by simply taking in a large simple carb meal….

100% Replenishment of MG takes hours, if not days….

Do you think a bodybuilder who has been carb depleting in the final week before a show could simply consume a mass of simple carbs in one meal and that would replenish MG… Of corse not! This would end in disaster as a lot, if not most of those carbs would be stored as BF because the body cannot process them and store them as MG quick enough….

For that reason I recommend complex carbs PWO with a small amount of simple carbs…. 75%,25%



This may be a bad analogy but im gonna give it a go and try and make it simple for you to follow/understand…

Your Stomach/blood is a 200L bath tub (200L = 200g Carbs)

Your fat cells are the bathroom (Unlimited volume)

Your muscle cells are at the end of the drain plug attached to the bath


Please bare with me LOL…


Lets say for example, you have just finished a training session and you have depleted 300g of carbs in the form of muscle glycogen… You now with to replenish this lost MG… You now need to replenish 300g worth of carbs…

300g Simple carb intake PWO

You turn on the tap's for the bath 100% full blast (take in fast digesting simple carbs)….. Now the bath can only empty at a certain rate (slower than you are filling it)… What is going to happen is, your going to over fill the bath and the excess water is goin to flow over the top and into the bathroom (fat cells)…

Speed of carbs in > speed of carbs processed and stored as MG = Excess carbs stored as BF…


300g Complex carb intake PWO

You turn on the tap's for the bath at 50% of full speed (take in slower digesting complex carbs)…… The bath tub is now draining faster than it is filling…. This means that the bath tub will not overflow and all 300L/300g that you put into it will go down the drain/into the muscle cells rather than overflow/ get stored as BF….


My brain works a bit different… Sorry… Makes sense to me tho

[gbrice75]

^^ good stuff, and agreed with the PWO complex carbs mainly for these reasons. Base goes with 75/25 complex/simple - i'm straight complex but to each his own.

[tbody66]

whatever works, the latest scientific information seems to point away from the simple carb old thinking. And is that really Swifto??? Where's he been for like three or four months? Not in the diet section for sure!

[baseline_9]

^^ good stuff, and agreed with the PWO complex carbs mainly for these reasons. Base goes with 75/25 complex/simple - i'm straight complex but to each his own.

GB, Base "Reccomends".....

Am I now a hypocrite to now admit that personaly I actually Prefer to do just the 25% simple carbs PWO and then follow it up ASAP (<45 mins ) with a whole food meal with complex carbs...

I just cannot put the oats away PWO and then consume a whole food meal 60 mins laiter...


Remember tho in reducing the simple carbs you will minimize the overflow into fat stores... In actuall fact I think It will not occur if the simple carbs are kept fairly low... You will however this way get the benefit of an insulin spike PWO withou the negatives of the 'Carb overload + insulin spike' which may result in fat storage

[jimmyinkedup]

This is an interesting topic. It has people firmly on both sides. As mentioned Dorian , also Pat Arnold , many many other still advoicate simple carbs PWO. The the other side - guys like Alan Aragon , Will Brink and other saying it makes no difference. I only have my own expeience to go on, IMO I do better with complex carbs , I seem to have no problems recovering or replenishing glycogen stores. My gains are the same in fact they appear to be cleaner , despite "anabolic window" claims etc.
It may just come down to individual. I believe i have insulin resistance issues...maybe thats why overall i AWLAYS respond to low gi complex carbs better.
It is intresting , recently Dr Lockwood eluded to the fatc that recent studies show the response to carbs is age dependant. Younger respond well to simple carbs while older do not and seem to respond better to complex carbs.
I will say this. I do not believe any insulin spike caused by ingestion of simple carbs is anabolic enough to justify the intake of so much simple sugar. Even just from a basic health standpoint. Without exogenous insulin i do not believe a naturally occuring insulin spike can offer any benfit that outweighs the cost. Thats just my opinion.

BTW - This is my 3000 post!!!

[gbrice75]

GB, Base "Reccomends".....

Am I now a hypocrite to now admit that personaly I actually Prefer to do just the 25% simple carbs PWO and then follow it up ASAP (<45 mins ) with a whole food meal with complex carbs...

I just cannot put the oats away PWO and then consume a whole food meal 60 mins laiter...


Remember tho in reducing the simple carbs you will minimize the overflow into fat stores... In actuall fact I think It will not occur if the simple carbs are kept fairly low... You will however this way get the benefit of an insulin spike PWO withou the negatives of the 'Carb overload + insulin spike' which may result in fat storage

Thanks for the clarification, and it brings up a good point...

This does NOT make you a hypocrite IMO. There are plenty of things I recommend to people that I don't personally do. This is because i've found things that work for me that don't generally seem to work for the masses. We always wind up saying it, but it really does come down to the individual.

This is an interesting topic. It has people firmly on both sides. As mentioned Dorian , also Pat Arnold , many many other still advoicate simple carbs PWO. The the other side - guys like Alan Aragon , Will Brink and other saying it makes no difference. I only have my own expeience to go on, IMO I do better with complex carbs , I seem to have no problems recovering or replenishing glycogen stores. My gains are the same in fact they appear to be cleaner , despite "anabolic window" claims etc.
It may just come down to individual. I believe i have insulin resistance issues...maybe thats why overall i AWLAYS respond to low gi complex carbs better.
It is intresting , recently Dr Lockwood eluded to the fatc that recent studies show the response to carbs is age dependant. Younger respond well to simple carbs while older do not and seem to respond better to complex carbs.
I will say this. I do not believe any insulin spike caused by ingestion of simple carbs is anabolic enough to justify the intake of so much simple sugar. Even just from a basic health standpoint. Without exogenous insulin i do not believe a naturally occuring insulin spike can offer any benfit that outweighs the cost. Thats just my opinion.

BTW - This is my 3000 post!!!

Great post (congrats on 3000!!!) and I agree with every bit of it, from a personal experience standpoint.

[tbody66]

the age dependent idea makes sense. I remember training 18-19 years ago and taking creatine with grape juice after workout for the insulin spike to get the creatine in the muscle, which is how it was recommended to me by a college strength coach at the time, and getting good results with no down side that I noticed.