* * * IF (intermittent fasting) Diets - post your opinions and experience here * * *

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

Personally, I wouldn't run an IF diet for a mass cycle. I think you'd benefit better from the frequent feedings as protein synthesis will be elevated, and bodyfat concerns will be lessened somewhat (assuming you're eating right) due to more efficient nutrient partitioning.

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ive devoted the past 6 days for 3-4 hours a day reading up on this. My take on this is, IF protocol can work for mass building diet, and work very well in fact the key to it though is if you can consume your daily calories in that 8 hour window. Even better i think if you could do a 18/6 during a bulk cause the increase of HGH release. BUT again not many people can stomach that much food. unless you eating in the low to mid 2000's Just my take on it.

I will be looking at doing a 24 hour fast 6pm- 6pm perhaps since daily fasts will not work for me with a base line of 3000-3500 calories.

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

Glad you're liking it so far Cue... it gets easier if anything IMO!



Congrats on starting.. keep us posted!



Thx for the bump mock!



What do you consider typical, and would the cycle be geared towards cutting or adding mass?

Personally, I wouldn't run an IF diet for a mass cycle. I think you'd benefit better from the frequent feedings as protein synthesis will be elevated, and bodyfat concerns will be lessened somewhat (assuming you're eating right) due to more efficient nutrient partitioning.

Now for a cutting cycle, it may work VERY well, although I would definitely supplement with BCAA's during the fast.

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Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren....

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Originally Posted by mockery

ive devoted the past 6 days for 3-4 hours a day reading up on this. My take on this is, IF protocol can work for mass building diet, and work very well in fact the key to it though is if you can consume your daily calories in that 8 hour window. Even better i think if you could do a 18/6 during a bulk cause the increase of HGH release. BUT again not many people can stomach that much food. unless you eating in the low to mid 2000's Just my take on it.

I will be looking at doing a 24 hour fast 6pm- 6pm perhaps since daily fasts will not work for me with a base line of 3000-3500 calories.

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I hear ya. Don't take my statement to mean I think IF for a mass cycle would be BAD; i'm just saying that I think a standard bbing diet would be more beneficial. If the calories are there, both will get the job done.

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Originally Posted by tboney

Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren....

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I'd be interested to know how you progress...

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Originally Posted by tboney

Im talking about cycle geared for lean gains.
For example a blast of say 350 to 400 mgs a week of a long estered test and maybe 800 mgs/week of primo or 350 mgs week of tren....

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cycle geared for lean gains is only as good as the diet you're on for lean gains.

^^ this.

To me it's the "Warrior Diet" that is pure bro-science. The whole idea of that's what warriors ate or.. "the cave man did this or that".. LOL if you want to look like a cave man then by all means eat like one. Myself I doubt a cave man would do well on stage...as to the warriors, the guys in the movies are actors most warriors looked pathetic by body building standards.

Do the Warrior and IF work? Of course, assuming you eat the correct macros/amounts they provide the appropriate nutrition to support your needs. Are they the long lost secret to sucess? Doubtful.

The reason I eat 6 times a day is because eating clean it's really hard to pack 200-300 gms of protein into a single meal. Arnold about a hundred years ago said this same stuff in one of his first books. While you may be able to eat a huge meal and then work out later to exploit the feed zone then do cardio later to exploit the fast zone you can do the same stuff with fasted cardio in the morning.

IMHO, if you are seeking fat loss and lean gains all you need to do is stick to a well structured diet and workouts and they will come over time. And for me the 4 - 6 meal deal allows me to eat comfortably, mainting mood and glycogen levels throughout the day. I am way too much of a prick to eat one big ass meal at home and starve at work....I would soon be unemployed LOL.

Anyway I am not knocking the Warrior, IF or any other approach that works for others, merely saying that macro's and calories are what determines body fat and musculature at a certain wieght and activity level. For me the 4-6 seems the easiest with 6 working well for me as I have a fast metabolism and small frame.

Just my 2 cents,

FFM

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Originally Posted by mockery

cycle geared for lean gains is only as good as the diet you're on for lean gains.

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Ofcourse! Thats my point?? Assuming that you are getting the same correct calories, does the IF method lend itself to lean gains as much as the coventional 4 to 6 clean meals a day?

personally im digging IF. waiting til 1300 to eat is no prob. plus its worth it for that big meal i get. then i get another one at 1700 and another at 2100. i havent been on it long enuff to determine how well it will or will not work for me but i seem to be getting leaner and im only on day4.
eating 6 meals per day i never really got full. now i do and i like it.

i also find that when i eat my first meal of the day (1200-1230), that i have a lot of energy. to where before, after lunch, i felt sluggish and was looking for a pickem upper!

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

Do the Warrior and IF work? Of course, assuming you eat the correct macros/amounts they provide the appropriate nutrition to support your needs. Are they the long lost secret to sucess? Doubtful.

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Agreed... but I haven't seen anybody making that claim.

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

The reason I eat 6 times a day is because eating clean it's really hard to pack 200-300 gms of protein into a single meal. Arnold about a hundred years ago said this same stuff in one of his first books. While you may be able to eat a huge meal and then work out later to exploit the feed zone then do cardio later to exploit the fast zone you can do the same stuff with fasted cardio in the morning.

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The warrior diet is the extreme side of IF - one meal a day. The Leangains approach ideally has you eating 3 meals per day - not impossible... depending on your total caloric intake. Again, I haven't seen any claims that this is THE WAY to diet. Rather, it debunks the long accepted mantra that you HAVE to eat frequent small meals. THAT is the broscience IMO.

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

IMHO, if you are seeking fat loss and lean gains all you need to do is stick to a well structured diet and workouts and they will come over time.

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Agreed - and that's regardless of eating 1 or 8 meals in a day.

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

And for me the 4 - 6 meal deal allows me to eat comfortably, mainting mood and glycogen levels throughout the day.

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Exactly - this is what works well for YOU - so it makes sense that you stick with it. For some people (I'm one of them), it's a pain in the ass, cumbersome, non-conducive to lifestyle, etc. IF offers an alternative approach that for some people, is MUCH more feasible and realistic. I don't know about you, but I am TIRED of thinking about food all day, prepping meals, cleaning dishes, cooking, etc. Furthermore, I never feel good eating small meals - I like to eat, and I only feel satisfied after a big meal. I feel MUCH better when I eat less frequent larger meals.

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

Anyway I am not knocking the Warrior, IF or any other approach that works for others, merely saying that macro's and calories are what determines body fat and musculature at a certain wieght and activity level.

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More than anything else, yes. But that's not all there is to it IMO. Our bodies are complex and as such, we can take advantage of the way we process foods, partition nutrients, hormonal response to fasting/overfeeding, etc. When you really learn about it, it's very interesting. At least to me... but i'm a nutrition geek.

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Originally Posted by Far from massive

Just my 2 cents,

FFM

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Glad you chimed in brother, I always appreciate intelligent debates. :)

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Originally Posted by tboney

Ofcourse! Thats my point?? Assuming that you are getting the same correct calories, does the IF method lend itself to lean gains as much as the coventional 4 to 6 clean meals a day?

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Definitely 'as much as'... some will argue MORE THAN - but IMO that will be determined by the individual.

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Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

personally im digging IF. waiting til 1300 to eat is no prob. plus its worth it for that big meal i get. then i get another one at 1700 and another at 2100. i havent been on it long enuff to determine how well it will or will not work for me but i seem to be getting leaner and im only on day4.
eating 6 meals per day i never really got full. now i do and i like it.

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Same here. Always hungry on small frequent feedings. I was barely finished with one meal and was already watching the clock for the next meal. Never the case with IF for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

i also find that when i eat my first meal of the day (1200-1230), that i have a lot of energy. to where before, after lunch, i felt sluggish and was looking for a pickem upper!

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x2. After being fasted for 16+ hours, I get this HUGE surge of energy and sense of well being after that first meal. Hormones... endorphines... I think it's important to point out that I do NOT feel crappy or lethargic throughout the fasted period. I've mentioned many times that I have had some of my best most intense workouts during this state. Epinephrine and Norepenephrine... look em' up! ;)

I would like to post a sample of the IF diet that im doing right now and has been working nicely for. I am doing both carb cycling and IF

Stats are :
weight : 190 lbs
height : 177 cm
Age : 24
bf: 10%

Supplement: chromium, multivatims, vitamin c , b complex, niacin , fish oil, cellucor c4 preworkout, and concrete creatine

Carb cycle:
high day: 300 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 200 g protein, all fats come naturally from food + 3 g fish oil,
medium: 200 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 230 g protein, up fats by 1 serving consisting of 12 almonds + 3 g fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein, up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: no starchy carbs (3 cups veggies) , 290 g protein, up fats by 3 servings ( 24 almonds) + 1 teaspoon evoo + 3 fish oil

protein sources: egg whites only , salamon, tilapia, chicken breasts, red meat (daily) , tuna, protein powder (zero carb + zero fat )
carb sources: cream of rice, white rice, brown rice, oats, yams

Workout : 75 mins weight training 5 times a weak after my first meal
Cardio: 7 times a weak 50 mins session before breaking my fast

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Originally Posted by cue_artist

I would like to post a sample of the IF diet that im doing right now and has been working nicely for. I am doing both carb cycling and IF

Stats are :
weight : 190 lbs
height : 177 cm
Age : 24
bf: 10%

Supplement: chromium, multivatims, vitamin c , b complex, niacin , fish oil, cellucor c4 preworkout, and concrete creatine

Carb cycle:
high day: 300 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 200 g protein, all fats come naturally from food + 3 g fish oil,
medium: 200 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 230 g protein, up fats by 1 serving consisting of 12 almonds + 3 g fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein, up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: 100 g of carbs + 2 cups veggies , 260 g protein , up fats by 2 serving ( 24 almonds) + 3 fish oil
low: no starchy carbs (3 cups veggies) , 290 g protein, up fats by 3 servings ( 24 almonds) + 1 teaspoon evoo + 3 fish oil

protein sources: egg whites only , salamon, tilapia, chicken breasts, red meat (daily) , tuna, protein powder (zero carb + zero fat )
carb sources: cream of rice, white rice, brown rice, oats, yams

Workout : 75 mins weight training 5 times a weak after my first meal
Cardio: 7 times a weak 50 mins session before breaking my fast

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7 days a week fasted cardio? is this to maintain a low body fat % all year?

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Originally Posted by mockery

7 days a week fasted cardio? is this to maintain a low body fat % all year?

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I am contest preping bro thats why i have so much cardio . But even when not contest preping i still do 35 mins of low intensity fasted cardio 3 times a week .

talking to a heavweight amature that took first place and will be going for his nation pro card next year, he was asking me if IF protocol could work for him being under 9% bf in off season. Id love to get him on If , maybe a 24 hour one once a week with a refeed day and see if i can coach him well enough to stay on for 3-4 months and see if it helps him get his pro card.

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Originally Posted by mockery

talking to a heavweight amature that took first place and will be going for his nation pro card next year, he was asking me if IF protocol could work for him being under 9% bf in off season. Id love to get him on If , maybe a 24 hour one once a week with a refeed day and see if i can coach him well enough to stay on for 3-4 months and see if it helps him get his pro card.

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I wouldn't really consider this IF. More like a regular diet with a single 24 hour fast incorporated once a week.

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

I wouldn't really consider this IF. More like a regular diet with a single 24 hour fast incorporated once a week.

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How is this working out for ya buddy? You doing it on your complete rest day? Or do you have one? Dont wanna overtrain, lol. <<<

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Originally Posted by 3Js

How is this working out for ya buddy? You doing it on your complete rest day? Or do you have one? Dont wanna overtrain, lol. <<<

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:lol:

I'm currently off IF atm. But I always come back. Time and place for everything.

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Originally Posted by gbrice75;6118***

:lol:

I'm currently off IF atm. But I always come back. Time and place for everything.

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where are you with your diet and training currently? everything is always about everyone else. What has Gbruce been up to.

Mock hows is IF going for you?

was great i only did it for 3 weeks as i needed two weeks maintance for my hormones to get use to calories from being in a -900 calorie deficit. So i could start a mini cycle.. will get back on If later, mind you i think my test is bunk and my mast is the bomb so this cycle is gonna be pointless unless i scrap my 3 bottles of test and get ones from the company i got the mast from.. but its hard to throw money around like that,

I have been doing an 16/8 IF for a pretty good while. I got from 20%bf to 14%bf pretty quick, about 3 months at maintenance with a lot of HIIT. I recently got on gear (12 wk 500mg/wk test e)and upped the cals to average 500 over maintenance, while still doing the IF. I'm pretty much.staying around same bf. I have almost completely cut out the HIIT, except for 400M repeats with some prowlers and burpees. My goal is to put on 15-20 lbs of lean gains with traditional BB training and last 4 wks of 12 wk cycle re introduce the full HIIT powerlifting schedule that I love but obviously with more power. My question is would dropping cals to maintenance the last 4 weeks compromise the gains severely. I don't know how motivated I will be to do cardio and HIIT powerlifting on PCT. This is my first cycle so I don't really know what to expect with pct.

My trainer had me start IF back in Feb. and I have had great success at losing and maintaining the weight loss while keeping my energy levels high. I fast 14-16 hours and my eating window is always 8 hours. My meals in the past were post workout-8oz protien, 1.5 c veggies, half an avocado or a serving of almonds, and 1/2 c carbs; next meal was 6 oz protien, 1.5 cups veggies; last meal was 3 egg whites and 1.5 cups veggies or casein protien shake with unsweetened almond milk. I should mention that I am female. I am at a point where I have only maintained, but still need to lose. Recently I switched my meal style to CKD ( so basically all protiens and upping them from lean protiens to fattier) but still staying with the 16 hour fast and 8 hour eating window. My question is that my Ketone levels are much higher at the end of my 8 hour eating window then they are post workout. Does anyone know a reason for this because my trainer and I are baffled?

I am going to start IF but only on the weekends when I am not doing any lifting, does anyone here only do IF on the weekends and what do you eat. I was thinking of starting to just eat one huge breakfast of whatever, omelets, potatoes english muffin and a protein shake, so still relatively healthy, I wanted Saturday and Sunday mornings and fast throughout the day, if I get to hungry just a light protein shake with 1/3 cup of oats at night. Mockery what are you thoughts on this?

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Originally Posted by Razor

I am going to start IF but only on the weekends when I am not doing any lifting, does anyone here only do IF on the weekends and what do you eat. I was thinking of starting to just eat one huge breakfast of whatever, omelets, potatoes english muffin and a protein shake, so still relatively healthy, I wanted Saturday and Sunday mornings and fast throughout the day, if I get to hungry just a light protein shake with 1/3 cup of oats at night. Mockery what are you thoughts on this?

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Best for you would be 24 hour fast. so have your Saturday morning brunch at 11am, then no food no protein, no bcaa until Sunday morning at 11. NO FOOD NO NOTHING. U might be cranky, angry and hate the world. Drink green tea and boat loads of water.

Daily fast or any fast for that matter can not have calories! none , zip zero! 16hours+ plus fast releases GH pulses that get stronger at 18 hours and best bang for your buck at 20 hours but still increase towards 24 hours.

I've been on IF for about the past two weeks and honestly I think I'm about to drop it. I was very optimistic starting out and I've been doing at least a 16 hr fast but usually closer to 20 hrs since that's more convenient with my work schedule. I work 12 hr shifts of somewhat physical work and contrary to what I read I felt like I had much less energy during the day while in a fasted state. I actually feel tired and kind of weak and not very sharp mentally. Then when I get home from work and consume all my daily calories in a short time I enjoy eating the large meals but then I feel bloated and usually fall asleep pretty quickly after that and have an upset stomach into the next morning. I want to make sure I'm giving it an honest attempt because a lot of people have good results with it but so far it's just kind of resulted in me feeling crappy in both the fasted and fed states like I described above and I don't think see any difference with body fat.

On the positive side it though I like being able to eat a lot at once while I'm actually eating it and it does make it more convienient for meal prep and scheduling and performing fasted cardio but for me I think that so far the negatives outweigh the positives.

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Originally Posted by mockery

Best for you would be 24 hour fast. so have your Saturday morning brunch at 11am, then no food no protein, no bcaa until Sunday morning at 11. NO FOOD NO NOTHING. U might be cranky, angry and hate the world. Drink green tea and boat loads of water.

Daily fast or any fast for that matter can not have calories! none , zip zero! 16hours+ plus fast releases GH pulses that get stronger at 18 hours and best bang for your buck at 20 hours but still increase towards 24 hours.

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How do I stay anabolic and keep my muscles from going catabolic during this phase without BCAA's or protein?

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Originally Posted by K88

I've been on IF for about the past two weeks and honestly I think I'm about to drop it. I was very optimistic starting out and I've been doing at least a 16 hr fast but usually closer to 20 hrs since that's more convenient with my work schedule. I work 12 hr shifts of somewhat physical work and contrary to what I read I felt like I had much less energy during the day while in a fasted state. I actually feel tired and kind of weak and not very sharp mentally. Then when I get home from work and consume all my daily calories in a short time I enjoy eating the large meals but then I feel bloated and usually fall asleep pretty quickly after that and have an upset stomach into the next morning. I want to make sure I'm giving it an honest attempt because a lot of people have good results with it but so far it's just kind of resulted in me feeling crappy in both the fasted and fed states like I described above and I don't think see any difference with body fat.

On the positive side it though I like being able to eat a lot at once while I'm actually eating it and it does make it more convienient for meal prep and scheduling and performing fasted cardio but for me I think that so far the negatives outweigh the positives.

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you never drop anything you adjust, you find whats not working. stick with the 16 hours fast. and have a shake at the 16 hour window so you get food in you. Still drink coffee for being alert... your hormones have to adjust to the protocol before you will reap all the benefits.

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Originally Posted by Razor

How do I stay anabolic and keep my muscles from going catabolic during this phase without BCAA's or protein?

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you wont go into a catabolic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.

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Originally Posted by mockery

you wont go into a catatonic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.

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further more, what you think is hunger alot of times is your body asking for water, and even further further more not eating for 2 hours and thinking you are hungry isnt really hunger at all, its teh dependancy on sugar, the social aspect of eating with friends, media and marketing telling you to eat. When i cut sugar out of my diet i stopped being hungry . Hungry .. real hunger is something that would set in after LONG periods of time with no food. not OH SHIT I NEED TO EAT ITS BE 2.5 hours omfg! Its like the mythical window for PWO shake after the gym.... dude you just ate before the gym your body hasnt gone catabolic from Resistance training and light cardio after lol... sooner people come to terms with this faster they will advance their lifting ability.

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Originally Posted by mockery

you wont go into a catatonic state while fasting. not if you are eating healthy the other 6 days, and are doing regular resistance training 3 times a week or more. Further more on gear you wont become catabolic, You need to stop believing this myth. u would only take bcaa if you are training but it sounds like its your off days. ? Your body has had a large amount of calories through out the week, your muscles are full of water and stored converted carbs. It takes calories to burn fat, with no calories fasting alows your body to burn fat straight up. and muscle protein break down is the last on a short list of the pecking order of what gets used for fuel first when there is no new calories.

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Ok great thank you for that, I feel much better about doing this already. So since I didnt make it a full day today without eating I will try again tomorrow, have a big breakfast in the AM then go a complete 24 hours without any food, protein, carbs, fats or BCAA's

Another thing, how would taking BCAA's during a fast negatively effect a fasting day? From my perspective it could only help but you are the expert on these things so I am interested to hear more about that.

waste of money, even though you appear to be loaded haha. Its about removing any intake of any sort of calories. Yes peopel think they have wiggle room, but why? do it right or dont do it at all. alow your body to addampt to fasting it will teach u alot more about hunger, cravings and eating that is pricless and no one else can teach you this, then that aside the dietairy positive effects it has is a further bonus.

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Originally Posted by mockery

waste of money, even though you appear to be loaded haha. Its about removing any intake of any sort of calories. Yes peopel think they have wiggle room, but why? do it right or dont do it at all. alow your body to addampt to fasting it will teach u alot more about hunger, cravings and eating that is pricless and no one else can teach you this, then that aside the dietairy positive effects it has is a further bonus.

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I do have money lol. 3 jobs is how I come up with it. But I will take all this into testing tomorrow! thx. I will probably be posting on here tomorrow about being hungry and miserable, im used to eating 8 times a day, so will need some support to stay on the straight path.

it will suck, but power through it. shits not easy hence why its not on infomercials at 3am on tv,, yet

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Originally Posted by mockery

it will suck, but power through it. shits not easy hence why its not on infomercials at 3am on tv,, yet

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HAHA understood!

body by mockery, send me some tren out of your stash we call it even.

You guys realize that catabolism is a completely normal thing to occur to your body that happens every single Day, right? Without being in a catabolic state u wont ever burn a gram of fat, ever. Also catabolism greatly enhances your PWO anabolism (if food choices are correct) --> glycogen supercompensation.

Concerning bcaas: I used to not take them too and thought all or nothing. But recently read a study about it where it said they greatly(!) increased your protein synthesis ability and pwo anabolism capacity. Take em since then and feel better in my workouts, could be mental though.

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Originally Posted by Razor

I do have money lol. 3 jobs is how I come up with it. But I will take all this into testing tomorrow! thx. I will probably be posting on here tomorrow about being hungry and miserable, im used to eating 8 times a day, so will need some support to stay on the straight path.

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You might actually find that your first day of it is easier than you thought it would be. I think part of our "hunger" and the feelings that come from it are triggered by eating small amounts of food, where in the completely fasted state you feel less hungry.

Okay Mock I'm 8 hours into my 24 hour fast. Starting to get hungry, gonna start pounding water like you said.

10 hours grrrrrr

cmon solider! if you are idel you will get hungry stay busy!! do something. , clean something go or for a walk! almost bed time now then you can hit the sack.

if you awake hunger dont break the fast hold out till 11!