Slow start to HRT

**kingfish** · 10-02-2010, 07:26 AM

I started my HRT on 9/22 and it's been slow going weight loss-wise. After following a strict 2300cal diet and doing cardio 5x this week I've only managed to drop one or two pounds total, although my strength is returning. Bench night on Tuesday was great. My endo has me taking 100mg test EW, which I know is a low dose - I think she was concerned with my low HDL at 35dL and was being very conservative. Maybe I'm just expecting too much too soon and should have more realistic expectations, but I'm hoping the test will help me lose the extra 40lbs I've been carrying for far too long. What would the risk/benefit be to eventually raising the weekly dose to 150-200mg?

**Dont wanna be old** · 10-02-2010, 07:30 AM

What other meds are you on ? ( TRT wise )

**subnet** · 10-02-2010, 07:54 AM

king - it's only been a week so it's really early to expect major differences. Remember that it probably took you a long time to gain that extra 40 lbs - don't expect it to come off immediately. Also, don't just look at the scale, but your body and your waistline - I have only dropped probably 5 to 8 pounds in just under a year of TRT, but my body composition is drastically different.

I suggest to stay the course of what your dr. has prescribed for now - 100 mg per week is pretty standard for starting up with many Dr's. Do it for a while and then get bloodwork to see where your levels are (6 weeks perhaps? others please chime in). The best is to get a good protocol dialed-in. Keep the diet and cardio going and you'll get there! Are you lifting weights too - if not, I really recommend it as it'll help build more muscle and help you lose the fat quicker (raise metabolic rate)...

Edit: so I can't read and just saw that your bench is increasing meaning you're obviously lifting weights (D'oh!). Anyways, you're doing great - a pound or two per week is ideal, especially if it's all fat. Lose fat and gain muscle and you'll be golden!

**zaggahamma** · 10-02-2010, 10:22 AM

were u losing weight the few weeks before starting test? also...you said your strength is increasing so youre moving your weight...imo...the best way to lose weight is slowly anyway....when i first started trt my goal was to lose 1 to 1.5 lbs per week by only going 500-600(approximately) calories below maintenance...also staggering the calorie totals to try to keep my body from getting used to the lower calories and slowing metabolism....some days 2900 some days 2500 some days 2700....do as much cardio as u can..
like subnet said...its what 10 days in.....youre already seeing positive results...you're gonna see it happen bro

**forrest_and_trees** · 10-02-2010, 04:22 PM

give it time. TRT isn't really about loosing weight though it does help *some*. Just be aware that as you increase your T levels, so does your E2 which will cause water retention. Hopefully you got your E2 levels checked prior to starting your TRT, if not it would be a good idea to have it done soon to give you a base line level, then have it checked in another 4-6 weeks to see where you are. At some point you may need to add an aromatise inhibitor to lower your E2 though at 100mg a week, it's not likely to happen too quickly but then again, everyone is different. In answer to your question, 120-200 mg a week is not unreasonable however you need to give it time to see how you respond to your current program. I wouldn't change anything for at least the first 60-90 days and even then, *only* after you have an updated blood panel and know the resutls.

**frawnz** · 10-02-2010, 04:24 PM

Give it time. I didn't notice any significant changes until like 4-5 weeks in (aside from morning erections) when I started. I also gained about 7 pounds my first 45 days on TRT even though my cardio increased and my diet got cleaner. My BF has gone down about 2% so I know I'm really starting to add some significant muscle, and have been getting lots of comments on how much thicker I'm looking.

**ds53** · 10-03-2010, 06:55 PM

I actually write down everything I eat (calories) divide that protein and the carbs and write down how many calories I burn and calculate what my weight loss should be. It wont be correct everday, but at the end of the month it is useally pretty close. If you are dieting hard and exercising a lot your test and thyroid will probably get lower. Have everything checked again at the end of 6 weeks and see where your at. Tell your endo you want to be high normal, not just in the normal range which is probably anywhere from 280 to 880 on her (insurance companies) scale. I like being at 700. You will lose muscle if you dont keep it High Normal or Higher than normal. Try to get around 1.5 - 2.0 grams of protein per kilo weight to feed the muscles. Stay away from anything processed (sugar, flour, chips, pop) that stuff is nothing but poison and keeps your HDL - LDL ratio screwed up. Test will help with your blood lipid profile if used correctly, your endo needs to do some homework, that is stated about everywhere there is anything said about Test. If she doesnt want you to be at optimum levels find another endo, they are everywhere.

**kingfish** · 10-03-2010, 08:56 PM

Thanks to all, I guess I pretty much knew the answer when I posted. My endo is a good one and is following with BW after six weeks and watching estradiol and lipid profile (and a bunch of other things). I told her I wanted to be on the high end of the normal T range ultimately, and she said ok as long as the labs support it. I just have to be patient and see what the 100mg EW does for my T levels. Part of my problem was that losing weight was a real struggle even with a strict 2300cal diet with cardio 4-5x week.

**subnet** · 10-03-2010, 09:17 PM

king - how did you come up with the 2300kcal as the basis for your diet? Just curious as to your stats (weight, height, bf%). More importantly, how have you been feeling since you started - libido, energy etc?

**zaggahamma** · 10-03-2010, 09:54 PM

body gets used to lower calories/starvation mode/slows metabolism....especially if low T you'll hit a plateau

**flatscat** · 10-04-2010, 06:39 AM

what kind of strict diet are you on?

**kingfish** · 10-05-2010, 07:29 AM

I used one of the online calcs I saw on this site to determine calorie requirements. I'm 42, 6' 255 29% BF (yikes!) and work out 3 times a week and now do cardio 4-5x week. Maint cals worked out to 2850 so I deducted 500 from that and use 2300 cal daily as my goal. I'd been using the zig-zag cycle before, but may have to try it again now that I'm on a HRT program. Libido has been low but a chubby, pregnant wife may have something to do with that. Overall energy has been ok, I still get tired during the afternoon but bench night last night was great - I'm back up to 315.

**zaggahamma** · 10-05-2010, 09:05 AM

its a slow process taking the fat off..

if it were me i'd up my calories up just a bit and see...maybe a bigger breakfast...keep the cardio intense..

kudos on the over 300 bench

back was my biggest strength when i started my trt..

keep us posted

**flatscat** · 10-05-2010, 03:38 PM

kingfish - low carb really worked for me - it is not for everyone but you may want to look into it.

**kingfish** · 10-12-2010, 09:16 AM

I tried the Atkins route two years ago; really tough to stick with and not healthy long-term IMO. My endo thinks I have an insulin sensitivity, so she wrote me for Glumetza. She thinks it'll help get the weight off, even though I'm not diabetic. I'll have to try calorie cycling again, and maybe increase the cardio length. At least my strength is coming back, now if I can just get the diet right I'll be in good shape.

**zaggahamma** · 10-12-2010, 09:23 AM

thats interesting...i always wondered if someone that was say borerline diabetic and/or even borderline hi blood pressure would benefit from the meds used to lower either....like say if i often test 130/80 blood pressure wise but not always but often and/or fasting blood sugar close to 100 but not quite, etc.

keep us posted

**flatscat** · 10-12-2010, 02:47 PM

I probably started at the same or higher bf. I think I have just gotten to the point where my metabolism switched sides and is now playing for me instead of against me. There are many different low carb diets out there - and remember the first few weeks are the tough ones - then you add healthy and complex carbs back in. I just try to avoid any white bread/rice and sugars now - lots of veggies, some nuts and lean red meat, chicken and fish. Wouldn't say it is an unhealthy diet by any means.

Point is how ever you can accomplish your bf reduction - you will get to a point where your lean mass energy use will change the way your body stores/uses calories how ever they are ingested.

I think you are on the right path and kudos to you for making a change. Now, take some before pics if you havn't already!!!!!

Flats

**kingfish** · 10-20-2010, 08:11 PM

Flats, I'm curious about your statement "my metabolism switched sides and is now playing for me instead of against me". What exactly has changed and how long did it take? What have you done to make this happen?
I'm convinced the diet is the part that's giving me the most grief. So, I'm overhauling it and cutting way back on carbs and adding in lots of fresh veggies. I've been looking around online for fat-loss diets to find one I can live with. I assume because of my constant calorie deficit, I won't gain size right now (even tho my strength is increasing) but I'd much rather concentrate on losing bf and getting my lipid profile and BP back in a healthy range.

**flatscat** · 10-21-2010, 07:13 AM

[QUOTE=kingfish;5397474]Flats, I'm curious about your statement "my metabolism switched sides and is now playing for me instead of against me". What exactly has changed and how long did it take? What have you done to make this happen?
I'm convinced the diet is the part that's giving me the most grief. So, I'm overhauling it and cutting way back on carbs and adding in lots of fresh veggies. I've been looking around online for fat-loss diets to find one I can live with. I assume because of my constant calorie deficit, I won't gain size right now (even tho my strength is increasing) but I'd much rather concentrate on losing bf and getting my lipid profile and BP back in a healthy range.[/QUOTE

Well, I was a complete fatass - you can see from my before pics. Three kids - stressful job - marriage on the rocks - I was a big slug - even though I had been on trt for a while, I was one of "those" that thought it would do it all for me. It wasn't until I took those before pics - and BAM - I said holy crap - no wonder you cant move around and play with your kids, and no wonder your wife really does not think you are hot, lol. So here is what I did and it is pretty simple.

I started doing cardio, and cut out as many carbs as I could. I would say that I was taking in between 0 and 20g of carbs a day in. I NEVER counted calories, ate all the time and the 0-20 varied some days I would have 0, some days I would have 20 or so, some days 15 and so on, but no specific pattern. I almost never hit the weights, but I have a small ranch, and there is always heavy work to do - so stuff like building fence, moving hay from the field to the barn, etc, was my weight training during this period. I did this for about 3 months and then added a few more healthy carbs in. Somewhere around by 40th pound lost, I started noticing that I could eat more carbs and still lose weight - I also started lifting - which helped with the extra carbs. I still don't count calories, although I may have to start changing my diet now and dive into the macros to reach my ultimate goal.

As everyone here knows I think high BF is the root of most all our evils (those with higher BF). My preference for anyone with high BF is to lose it how ever you can - testosterone certainly helps this in many ways. It WILL allow you to add a little mass while you lose BF - don't think it won't. AND if you are on a low carb plan you are ingesting a lot of protein at the same time. T actually goes well with a low carb diet if your main goal is to lose that BF.

So the whole picture is this - the key is to increase your lbm right? I just think it is easier for overweight guys to lose the BF first - still be active and do some type of lifting, but focus on the cardio. I know a lot of people will say the opposite - but this is what worked for me. There will be a line you cross - lbm/BF% where you know your metabolism is working for you now - and at that point you can decide if it is time to switch your diet up to really increase mass. I have about 10-15 more to go and I think I will be at that point.

MY bp is normal now and my total cholesterol went from 314 to 199 btw.

Take the pics - whether you post them or not doesn't matter, and look at them everyday - don't just look in the mirror bro.

Sorry this is so long - let me know if I can help you in any way and good luck - you can do this!!!

**kingfish** · 10-24-2010, 12:06 PM

Flats, I got your PM but couldn't reply (haven't hit 50 posts yet)
I have to remember to be patient - I too assumed HRT would burn bodyfat at some unbelievable rate but I'm seeing that my carb intake was way too high. The 20g daily carbs you're eating sounds crazy low - that was the daily limit when I was on Atkins, but hey, if it works for you then that's great. I know I wouldn't have the energy to work out with carbs that low. I started cooking pork/chicken/beef etc to bring to work for two meals during the day and raw veggies like broccoli/califlower etc to go with.
I'm shooting for 2400cal daily which is 500 below my weight maintenance requirement (if the cal calculator is accurate) so at the very least I should lose 1lb a week just form the calorie deficit. I'd like to lose 2-3 lb weekly to stay motivated, but no more than that. My strength has come back after starting HRT as reflected by my bench going back up. Right now I just want to get the weight off but it's been a struggle to get everything in synch, the diet being the toughest part. I'm trying to work out 3 or 4x week and get 15-20 mins of vigorous cardio in after the workout. My trainer tells me not to go overboard with the cardio right now as building muscle will have greater metabolic effect than cardio.

**zaggahamma** · 10-24-2010, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by kingfish

Flats, I got your PM but couldn't reply (haven't hit 50 posts yet)
I have to remember to be patient - I too assumed HRT would burn bodyfat at some unbelievable rate but I'm seeing that my carb intake was way too high. The 20g daily carbs you're eating sounds crazy low - that was the daily limit when I was on Atkins, but hey, if it works for you then that's great. I know I wouldn't have the energy to work out with carbs that low. I started cooking pork/chicken/beef etc to bring to work for two meals during the day and raw veggies like broccoli/califlower etc to go with.
I'm shooting for 2400cal daily which is 500 below my weight maintenance requirement (if the cal calculator is accurate) so at the very least I should lose 1lb a week just form the calorie deficit. I'd like to lose 2-3 lb weekly to stay motivated, but no more than that. My strength has come back after starting HRT as reflected by my bench going back up. Right now I just want to get the weight off but it's been a struggle to get everything in synch, the diet being the toughest part. I'm trying to work out 3 or 4x week and get 15-20 mins of vigorous cardio in after the workout. My trainer tells me not to go overboard with the cardio right now as building muscle will have greater metabolic effect than cardio.

i like the 500 calorie deficit a lot...

dont agree 100% with the trainer about the cardio if you can do 30 i think you'll be better off than 15-20

sounds like youre going steady and slow...i think its best to lose only 1-2 a week..

also sound like your making meals for the day and planning everything nicely...wheres the struggle...r u craving/feeling hungry?

**flatscat** · 10-25-2010, 03:14 PM

I am way more than 20 now. And yes that is extreme -

I am glad you have worked out a plan. Now give it a go - at least 30 days with your cardio and weight training. Keep doing it if you are still seeing results after 30. Change it up a little if you have stopped or slowed down quite a bit - but stick with it for at least 30 brother.

Did you take your photo's for your scrap book?

Please keep us informed of your progress.

**flatscat** · 10-25-2010, 03:17 PM

oh yea - at least 30, prefer 45 of moderate cardio - 135% U won't be burning muscle with your diet and while on trt if you keep it that low

**zaggahamma** · 10-25-2010, 03:56 PM

he said he was doing 15-20

**zaggahamma** · 10-25-2010, 03:57 PM

per request of his pt

**subnet** · 10-25-2010, 11:09 PM

I remember reading a few studies that say you don't really start burning fat until 20 minutes into cardio, so that you really need to do 30 to 45 minutes to get good fat-burning minutes in. If you stop at 20 min, then you are not getting full benefit...

**frawnz** · 10-26-2010, 01:49 AM

Plus, you wanna keep your post-workout cardio low to moderate intensity to prevent AMPK buildup (prevents protein synthesis). Unless you really don't care about muscle and just wanna lose weight regardless of where it comes from.