High Free-Normal Total

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 09:25 AM

Hi guys. Here are some numbers from bloods last week. On TRT

Estradiol 6.9 RR 7.6-42.6

Total Test 781 RR 280-1100

Free Test 39.05 RR 1.9-27

Obviously I need to drop my AI. How about my Test numbers though. No worries?

Thanks

**austinite** · 10-15-2012, 09:31 AM

Hi Jim, I'm not sure that you want to drop the AI, maybe the dose needs to be reevaluated. What's your prescription call for?

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

Hi Jim, I'm not sure that you want to drop the AI, maybe the dose needs to be reevaluated. What's your prescription call for?

My doc only has me on 0.5 mg anastrozol SR a week. Says it is time released and only needs to be taken once a week. I don't about that but regardless,with that small a dose I might as well drop it all together until next bloods?

**bass** · 10-15-2012, 10:16 AM

your e2 test is not a sensitive assay. did you do your labs at labcorp? your test levels are fine, i bet your SHBG is in the tank like most of us.

**HRTstudent** · 10-15-2012, 12:43 PM

I have low SHBG. My Free T was actually above range even when my total was mid range. So, I did more frequent injects.

But also, there is no consensus as to what a clinician should follow: Free T vs Total T. There are good doctors who put more weight on either of the two.

With that said, pick a goal with your doctor that makes sense and tweak from there. More is not always better - try less if your results are not satisfactory.

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 01:09 PM

SHBG is 14 RR 10-80. Not sure what that really means. I can't seem to take any amount of Anastrozol without tanking estrogen. Back when I was self medicating I used that topical Formestane and that did a great job of keeping me in the sweet spot. It doesn't seem to be available anymore.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-15-2012, 01:20 PM

You need to add the lab units to these ranges.

SHBG is low thus higher Free T levels.

You don't want SHBG to go much lower then this as there are some bad neg side effects. This is one where mid range is best.

SHBG is primarily produced by the liver but other places as well like your testes.

You may be an over responder to your AI; some men are or you just metabolize well and don't need it...which would be a good thing.

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 01:24 PM

Thanks, what if anything can I do to optimize SHBG levels while on TRT? Looking at the other comments this is just par for the course?

**steroid.com 1** · 10-15-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by JimR

Thanks, what if anything can I do to optimize SHBG levels while on TRT? Looking at the other comments this is just par for the course?

Not par for the course; while you are not "clinically low" it's in the lower end of the reference range.

Usually the biggest reason for low SHBG is excessive insulin (or insulin resistance).

Insulin resistance leads to a cascade of unwanted hormonal events (as in most things hormonal) which results in other hormone imbalances such as low testosterone production (like you had presented with), under performing thyroid activity, adrenal fatigue, on and on...

Besides insulin resistance, the other most common cause of low SHBG is high levels other androgen hormones like high testosterone levels from TRT.

Men who use anabolic steroids at high doses often drive their SHBG go to near zero which can kill them or cause serious health issues.

Homeostasis is everything when we talk about hormones in men (and women for that matter) and when one is unusually too high or too low other hormonal causes need to be investigated...it's not just about "putting in" more Testosterone .

**HRTstudent** · 10-15-2012, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by JimR

Thanks, what if anything can I do to optimize SHBG levels while on TRT? Looking at the other comments this is just par for the course?

As far as I know there is no effective way to positively impact SHBG in relation to actually making you feel better. By that, I mean there are ways you can effect your SHBG but the practical results do not translate into improved quality of life/better treatment.

I am like you in that we have low-normal SHBG. Figuring out E2 with anastrozole has been a long and "hard" process. I'm still not in some sweet spot, but I have been slowly narrowing it down. I suggest frequent bloodwork as you can and if you can do it then every 3 weeks and make adjustments as needed.

I also recommend doing as frequent shots as you are willing to do. Right now I do 3 a week.

**jimmyinkedup** · 10-15-2012, 02:17 PM

ai directly impacts shbg. dial that in i suspect your problem will get better. perhaps try aromasin ...bit harder to crush e2 with it from what i have seen.

**kelkel** · 10-15-2012, 02:28 PM

Op I'm curious when you take your AI relative to your injection and when the BW was pulled relative to both.

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Op I'm curious when you take your AI relative to your injection and when the BW was pulled relative to both.

AI was taken 24 after injection per recommendations I have seen. BW was 2 days after injection. I am injecting twice a week 100mgs Test C. 200 mgs a week total. Actually a little less since I am injecting every third day. For instance every Monday then Friday.

**kelkel** · 10-15-2012, 02:55 PM

Ok. Good on the AI. Can you cut it down to .25 or is it a compounded product? 200 per week is the higher end of TRT from what we see. If I did that dosage I'd be at a 2k T level! Many of us here go with the every 3.5 dosing protocol. Many as well have switched to SQ injections. That protocol coupled with sound nutrition has allowed several veteran members here to eliminate their AI entirely, which should be everyones goal, IMO. Agree with Bass though, you need to get a sensitive E2 assay next time.

kel

**jwws9999** · 10-15-2012, 05:30 PM

the question I have is how do you feel

Originally Posted by JimR

Hi guys. Here are some numbers from bloods last week. On TRT

Estradiol 6.9 RR 7.6-42.6

Total Test 781 RR 280-1100

Free Test 39.05 RR 1.9-27

Obviously I need to drop my AI. How about my Test numbers though. No worries?

Thanks

**JimR** · 10-15-2012, 07:28 PM

I notice a lot of folks saying 200 mgs a week is high but I have been doing that for 3 years and stay right around 700-1000 ng/dl right along. When I first had bloods taken 3 years ago before starting I was at 150 ng/dl. Honestly,I would consider myself a heavy drinker. 20 beers a night 3 times a week for years. I am 45 and needless to say in much better shape now than when I started TRT 3 years ago. Could all that beer be the reason I can use 200 mgs a week and not go sky high? I could just quit or drink a day a week or so. It's more a lifestyle, I just enjoy it and can go any amount of time without craving it.

**HRTstudent** · 10-15-2012, 09:24 PM

That many beers probably does have a considerable impact on your entire physiology. Can anyone here tell you that's why you need so much T? Probably not, but we can just speculate.

I'd suggest cutting that down for a host of reasons, but you already know that, and you will do what you will.

If 200mg per week has you high-normal, then that's fine and dandy. Some people need more, some need less. 200mg is simply the upper limit for legitimate medical purposes, but it doesn't mean 200mg is necessarily abuse.

**JimR** · 10-16-2012, 05:42 AM

Thanks,I'm also curious about that 150 ng/dl lab results taken before I started 3 years ago. I began with a normal first cycle blast and gained a considerable amount of muscle,then switched over to a self medicated TRT dose. Currently doing it through a doc. He doesn't really know what he's doing. I tell him the proper way to do TRT and he goes along with it. Anyway....since my test was so low in the beginning is there anything I should be concerned about or since I've been on TRT for 3 years now....just continue along?

**jwws9999** · 10-16-2012, 06:53 AM

I would definitely get a liver panel done with that much alcohol consumption and being on trt

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

That many beers probably does have a considerable impact on your entire physiology. Can anyone here tell you that's why you need so much T? Probably not, but we can just speculate.

I'd suggest cutting that down for a host of reasons, but you already know that, and you will do what you will.

If 200mg per week has you high-normal, then that's fine and dandy. Some people need more, some need less. 200mg is simply the upper limit for legitimate medical purposes, but it doesn't mean 200mg is necessarily abuse.

**JimR** · 10-16-2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by jwws9999

I would definitely get a liver panel done with that much alcohol consumption and being on trt

I have all good. I suspect that even with that many beers the fact I NEVER drink 2 days in a row is why I do ok. That recovery day is important as just from observation,it is the daily drinkers that have more health problems. Obviously not ideal and hangovers do not make for the most productive gym time. I need a girlfriend...that keeps me behaving.