Was on shots, switched to gels, erections and liido were great, then tanked

[osirisrisen]

On 100mg Test Cyp/ week and 330HCG 3x I always had:

Total Test 1100 (250-1100)
Test Free 218 HIGH (35-155)

Estradiol 31 (<29 pg/ml)

Estradiol Free 0.73 HIGH (<0.45 PG/ML)

Estrone 54 (<68 pg/ml)

DHT 49 (16-79 NG/DL)



Mood and energy great, gains in the gym have been solid, erections and premature ejaculation were still crap.

In June Dr put me on 4 pumps of Fortesta daily and I added zoloft at 50mg and went to t3 only (dropped previous t4 dosage) Holy shit I had morning wood come back and I felt more alpha, and had no issues banging chicks left and right, it was the first time I felt like this in years....and I'm still young at 32!

By August/Sept the magic wore off, morning wood died, erections went south, PE came back, lost it all. Did some labs (two hours after gel application)

TT 1020 (250-1100)

Free T 232.6 HIGH (35-155)

SHBG 28 (10-50)

Estradiol <10 (11-44) Not sensitive, lab tech entered wrong one


The zoloft had a positive impact with regards to lowering my high NE symptoms (cold hands/feet, poor erections, PE) and after a while that wore off and just made me apathetic, or it pooped out.


Test gel boosted test nicely, and probably DHT, but my e2 drops like a rock on it. I'm guessing either the gel magic slowly wore off as my e2 continued to drop along with the zoloft either stopping to work, or kicking in too much.

I'm really confused.

[OingoBoingo]

Low E2 is as bad as high E2, and can have a negative effect on libido and performance.

Read the hCG and Pregnenolone sticky. Pregnenolone can boost our sense of well-being. It certainly did in my case.

If Zoloft has stopped working for you, you might try something else. Wikipedia lists some nasty sides.

[osirisrisen]

Low E2 is as bad as high E2, and can have a negative effect on libido and performance.

Read the hCG and Pregnenolone sticky. Pregnenolone can boost our sense of well-being. It certainly did in my case.

If Zoloft has stopped working for you, you might try something else. Wikipedia lists some nasty sides.

I'm going to go back to Test Cyp 100mg 1 shot per week and hcg 250 m,w,f and give it two weeks and run labs

Preg has always boosted my mood, but increases ed, I have tested this off and on.

Might have to try a dif ssri, prozac is similar to zoloft I've heard.

[OingoBoingo]

Two weeks probably isn't enough. Six to eight weeks is better.

Haven't heard about hCG causing problems, but it is possible to supplement Pregnenolone.

You might also try hCG 100IU daily, and Testosterone 50mg twice a week.

[osirisrisen]

Two weeks probably isn't enough. Six to eight weeks is better.

Haven't heard about hCG causing problems, but it is possible to supplement Pregnenolone.

You might also try hCG 100IU daily, and Testosterone 50mg twice a week.

I did see that Crisler was suggesting TD Gel guys to do HCG 100iu daily, interesting approach, seems pretty much the best way to match natural rhythms.

Which would give me more e2, as mine is typically on the low side?

a) 100mg Test Cyp 1/week and hcg 250 m,w,f
b) 50mg m and F and hcg 100 daily

thanks for the fast replies

[jasondd1]

My guess is test once a week and hcg 3 times would increase e2 more but that's just a guess

[OingoBoingo]

Higher, less frequent dosing tends to increase E2. But I wonder if Zoloft played a part in lowering yours.

LEF recommends E2 kept between 20 and 30. Your first reading of 31 isn't so bad.

[osirisrisen]

Higher, less frequent dosing tends to increase E2. But I wonder if Zoloft played a part in lowering yours.

LEF recommends E2 kept between 20 and 30. Your first reading of 31 isn't so bad.

Also the e2 test (second labs, on gel) wasn't the sensitive test and could just be a total mistake.

I was on shots for about three years and the gel for just this summer. I never had a more consistent libido and erection quality then those four months on gel.

On either shots or gel my energy, mood, gym gains, etc are great, no issues whatsoever. But erections were always hit or miss. Something with the gel/t3 only/ and ssri gave me an initial perfect storm of boner magic and lasting power.

[OingoBoingo]

Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon make a strong case for the E2 sensitive test, but they're also the doctors that get the patients who other doctors can't fix.

LEF (of which Dr. Crisler is a board member) continues to recommend the standard E2 test. You can read more about it on their website.

The E2 sensitive test is not available in Thailand, and I was very concerned about managing E2 without it. Thus I started injecting Testosterone and hCG subcutaneously daily. I experienced some high E2 symptoms, and took Anastrozole when needed (instead of forcing myself on a schedule), and things worked out fine.

It's important to understand that when we make more than one change to our protocol, it can be difficult to know which change caused which response. Better to commit to a protocol for 8 weeks, and then only make small changes if needed.

Libido and sexual response is complicated, and even a small change can have a big effect.

[OingoBoingo]

You might also check out the thread on 5mg Cialis per day.

[lovbyts]

I think doing 2x a week or every day injections as recommended will be beneficial and you should consider dropping your test dose a little. Being on the upper range is not always a good thing especially since your E2 is also elevated. a lot of people have learned that more is not better.

Thats great that 100mg a week puts you that high though, you should be able to save up a little excess easily.

[osirisrisen]

I think doing 2x a week or every day injections as recommended will be beneficial and you should consider dropping your test dose a little. Being on the upper range is not always a good thing especially since your E2 is also elevated. a lot of people have learned that more is not better.

Thats great that 100mg a week puts you that high though, you should be able to save up a little excess easily.

I agree, I'd like to be more in the 800-900 range. Even on 4 pumps of fortesta i'm still around 1000 per day! I'm debating between two protocol's that ill start this week and give 6 weeks before testing and tweeking

a) Test Cyp 40mg e3.5 d
HCG 250iu m,w,f
Preg 50mg Am
DHEA 25mg2xday
thyroid help (25mcg t3/ day)

b) fortesta 2 pumps / day
HCG 100iu daily
rest same as above


Ultimately I like the high dht from the gel and the up/down natural pattern it provides, but can't raise low e2 on them. Test cyp gives great t and e2, but mid range dht (which i think as an ex propecia guy I need high).

Which is easier to raise through other supps and dosing, DHT on Shots, or e2 on gels?

[bass]

Do you realize you replied to a 6 year old post!

[osirisrisen]

Do you realize you replied to a 6 year old post!

What are you talking about? I started this thread yesterday and lovbyts replied to it last night.

[bass]

Oops, sorry replied to a wrong thread! Cell phone error!

[bass]

Let me give you my input. As stated above e2 is probably your problem, it's on the high side with injections, managing your e2 will help, also as stated above twice a week injections will help with e2,less spikes = less conversion.

[osirisrisen]

Let me give you my input. As stated above e2 is probably your problem, it's on the high side with injections, managing your e2 will help, also as stated above twice a week injections will help with e2,less spikes = less conversion.

Thanks for the insight, I agree it has to be e2, as there were windows on shots where my erections and libido were great also, then kinda slipped away. e2 is most obvious cuplrit.

I'm going to give this protocol a go now:

a) Test Cyp 40mg e3.5 d
HCG 250iu m,w,f
Preg 50mg Am
DHEA 25mg2xday
thyroid help (25mcg t3/ day)

Would I be ok with changing hcg from 250mwf to doing 500iu 2x a week, adding it in with my test shot...Nelson Vergel style? I'm just looking for a simple, convenient method

[bass]

That's how I take hCG , one less poke! Also consider SQ injections, it will help even more with e2 management.

[OingoBoingo]

It's good to see that you're starting with a lower Testosterone dose.

One thing to remember about hCG is that larger doses cause much higher E2 spikes.

Daily subcutaneous injections of 100IU (only 0.10cc the way I mix it) with an insulin syringe (BD Ultra-Fine II, 30g, 5/16" needle) are a piece of cake.