Lab Results 9-25-12

[Doug350SD]

I am looking for some input on my results.

5'8", 180 lbs, 15% bf +/- 34 years old.

Current HRT
Daily application of 2, 5 gm packets of Androgel 1%

Daily supplements
2- Aleve
2- Men's vitamins
2100 mg of Arginine Ethyl Ester HCL
1000mg L-Arginine
2000mg Glucosamine with 1000iu D3
BCAA's L-Leucine 1200mg/ L-Valine 600mg/ L-Isoleucine 600mg
2400 mg Fish oil/ 720 mg Omega3
1400mg flax seed oil

Since bloodwork added the following
50mg DHEA
5000iu D3

Test's as follows

CBC/ Diff Ambiguous Default
WBC 7.4 x10E3/uL range 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.43 x10E6/uL range 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 16.2 g/dL range 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 48.1% range 37.5-51
MCV 89 fL range 79-97
MCH 29.8 pg range 26.6-33
MCHC 33.7 g/dL range 31.5-35.7
RDW 13.3 % range 12.3-15.4
Platelets 254 x10E3/uL range 140-415
Neutrophils 67 % 40-74
Lymphs 25 % 14-46
Monocytes 6 % range 4-13
Eos 1 % range 0-7
Basos 1% range 0-3
Neutrophils (absolute) 4.9 x10E3/uL range 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (absolute) 1.9 x10E3/uL range 0.7-4.5
Monocytes (absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL range 0.1-1
Eos (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.4
Baso (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.2
Immature Granulocytes 0 % range 0-2
Immature Grans (abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1

comp. metabolic panel
Glucose Serum 97 mg/dL range 65-99
BUN 14 mg/dL range 6-20
Creatine Serum .94 mg/dL range .76-1.27
eGFR if NonAfricn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 range >59
eGFR if Africn Am 122 mL/min/1.73 range >59
BUN /Creatine Ratio 15 range 8-19
Sodium Serum 142 mmol/L range 134-144
Potassium Serum 4.1 mmol/L range 3.5-5.2
Chloride Serum 105 mmol/L range 97-108
Protein Total Serum 6.8 g/dL range 6.0-8.5
Albumin Serum 4.5 g/dL range 3.5-5.5
Globulin Total 2.3 g/dL range 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 2.0 range 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin Total 1.1 mg/dL range 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase Serum 67 IU/L range 25-150
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L range 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 37 IU/L range 0-55

lipid panel
Cholesterol Total 177 mg/dL range 100-199
Triglycerides 147 mg/dL range 0-149
HDL Cholesterol LOW 38 mg/dLrange >39
LDL Cholestrol high 110 mg/dLrange 0-99
VLDL Cholesterol 29 mg/dL range 5-40

LH low 0.6 mIU/mL range 1.7-8.6
FSH low 0.8 mIU/mL range 1.5-12.4

Testosterone free and total
Testosterone serum low 194 ng/dL range 348-1197
Free Testosterone Direct low 7.9 pg/mL range 8.7-25.1

Thyroxine
T4 Free Direct 1.29 ng/dL range .82-1.77
DHEA -sulfate 194.1 ug/dL range 160-449
TSH 1.2 uIU/mL range .450-4.5
Vit-D 25-Hydroxy 49.9 ng/mL range 30-100
Prostate specific Ag Serum 1.3 ng/mL range 0.0-4
Methylmalonic Acid Serum 213 umol/L range 73-376
Homocyst(e)ine Plasma 6.7 umol/L range 0-15
Triiodothyronine Free Serum 3.6 pg/mL range 2-4.4

Estrogens Fractionated
Estradiol 16.8 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
Estrone Serum 46pg/mL range 12-72
Estriol Serum <0.3 ng/mL range not Estab.

Since bloodwork Docotr has agreed to drop gel and start 1 mL test cyp eow, allowing self administered so doing .5 mL ew on Wednesday ..

[bass]

wow, how many times are we going to see that the creams are shit! you're the second one in two days posted lower test levels than normal being on gels. other than your test level and lipids everything else looks fine. however your e2 test is the wrong one, you need to do the sensitive assay to have accurate readings. i am assuming this is labcorp results, correct? stay away from flax seed oil.

[Doug350SD]

It is lab corp.. Why the no on flax seed oil?

[Doug350SD]

Bump..

[Doug350SD]

Not too sure who's checking this out but last time I tried to post these results gdevine had stopped in, I am hoping maybe he might again.

GD, if perhaps you are checking this out, last time you made the statement that you were not positive if I was primary or secondary.

In digging a little deeper in my own past trying to come to some conclusions to why I may have the low t issues in the first place, I have thought back to what may possibly have been my unintentional cause.

Back at the age of, oh say 21. I had started going to the gym with a buddy I had meet that summer. At the time I was all of 130lbs and that was dressed.. In the process of going to the gym I learn my friend is using gear. He offered to me but at the time I was not interested in it. I thought I would be smart and just buy supplements from the vitamin / supplement store in the gym. So I proceeded to use theses, just oral supplements along with lots of cell tech Creatine. Over the next six or so months I grew at a rather awesome rate to my current weight of 180. Now being 21 I was and until of recent under the impression I just grew due to my age and perhaps just some kick ass genetics.

After reading many logs on here and hearing the many warnings from veterans to new younger guys to stay away from gear and such until older. I do believe that perhaps those supplements that have since been removed from stores as with just about 90% of supplements from back then due to FDA research may be the root to my issues of low t and such.

Would this being the cause have any effect on treatment or would I just continue on with the direction I am going?

[Brohim]

only pro-hormones liker superdrol would do that. Not cell tech and stuff from GNC. Also most guys need to take 100 grams of test cream per day minimum because you only absorb 10% of the gel/cream. So you take only two, 5 gram packet's of 1%? That sounds low. Do you know androgel has new 1.62% cream? If it were me, I would search other men taking that cream and see what dose they are having results with and get your doc. to switch you over and/or up your dose.

[Doug350SD]

The supplements were things other than the cell tech and such, they were oral I can't remember the name of them but I do remember them starting with suffixes such as Ana, deca , and such.. I'm just guessing as lots of different "ingredients " are no longer used that may have been then.

He did switch me to test cyp 1 mL eow, I am doing 1/2ml ew. This week was my 3rd injection.

[steroid.com 1]

It is lab corp.. Why the no on flax seed oil?

Flax Seed, like Soy, are estrogen mimics.

[Doug350SD]

Flax Seed, like Soy, are estrogen mimics.

Ok then no more for me...

[steroid.com 1]

I am looking for some input on my results.

5'8", 180 lbs, 15% bf +/- 34 years old.

Current HRT
Daily application of 2, 5 gm packets of Androgel 1%

Daily supplements
2- Aleve
2- Men's vitamins
2100 mg of Arginine Ethyl Ester HCL
1000mg L-Arginine
2000mg Glucosamine with 1000iu D3
BCAA's L-Leucine 1200mg/ L-Valine 600mg/ L-Isoleucine 600mg
2400 mg Fish oil/ 720 mg Omega3
1400mg flax seed oil
Stop the Flax Seed Oil at once.

Since bloodwork added the following
50mg DHEA
5000iu D3

Test's as follows

CBC/ Diff Ambiguous Default
WBC 7.4 x10E3/uL range 4.0-10.5
RBC 5.43 x10E6/uL range 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 16.2 g/dL range 12.6-17.7

Hematocrit 48.1% range 37.5-51
Give blood.

MCV 89 fL range 79-97
MCH 29.8 pg range 26.6-33
MCHC 33.7 g/dL range 31.5-35.7
RDW 13.3 % range 12.3-15.4
Platelets 254 x10E3/uL range 140-415
Neutrophils 67 % 40-74
Lymphs 25 % 14-46
Monocytes 6 % range 4-13
Eos 1 % range 0-7
Basos 1% range 0-3
Neutrophils (absolute) 4.9 x10E3/uL range 1.8-7.8
Lymphs (absolute) 1.9 x10E3/uL range 0.7-4.5
Monocytes (absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL range 0.1-1
Eos (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.4
Baso (absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL range 0.0-0.2
Immature Granulocytes 0 % range 0-2
Immature Grans (abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1

comp. metabolic panel
Glucose Serum 97 mg/dL range 65-99
BUN 14 mg/dL range 6-20
Creatine Serum .94 mg/dL range .76-1.27
eGFR if NonAfricn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 range >59
eGFR if Africn Am 122 mL/min/1.73 range >59
BUN /Creatine Ratio 15 range 8-19
Sodium Serum 142 mmol/L range 134-144
Potassium Serum 4.1 mmol/L range 3.5-5.2
Chloride Serum 105 mmol/L range 97-108
Protein Total Serum 6.8 g/dL range 6.0-8.5

Albumin Serum 4.5 g/dL range 3.5-5.5
Fine

Globulin Total 2.3 g/dL range 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 2.0 range 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin Total 1.1 mg/dL range 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase Serum 67 IU/L range 25-150
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L range 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 37 IU/L range 0-55

lipid panel
Cholesterol Total 177 mg/dL range 100-199
Triglycerides 147 mg/dL range 0-149
HDL Cholesterol LOW 38 mg/dLrange >39
LDL Cholestrol high 110 mg/dLrange 0-99
LDL is a tad high and that can happen on a TRT procotol. Add is som Red Yeast Rice to your supps.

VLDL Cholesterol 29 mg/dL range 5-40

LH low 0.6 mIU/mL range 1.7-8.6
FSH low 0.8 mIU/mL range 1.5-12.4
Tanked and we know why.

Testosterone free and total
Testosterone serum low 194 ng/dL range 348-1197
Free Testosterone Direct low 7.9 pg/mL range 8.7-25.1
Either this assay if flawed or the Androgel is doing nothing for you. Interesting, however, that LH and FSH are tanked...hmmmm.

Thyroxine
T4 Free Direct 1.29 ng/dL range .82-1.77

DHEA -sulfate 194.1 ug/dL range 160-449
Take 50 mg of micronized DHEA every morning.

TSH 1.2 uIU/mL range .450-4.5

Vit-D 25-Hydroxy 49.9 ng/mL range 30-100
Supp some D3.

Prostate specific Ag Serum 1.3 ng/mL range 0.0-4
Methylmalonic Acid Serum 213 umol/L range 73-376
Homocyst(e)ine Plasma 6.7 umol/L range 0-15
Triiodothyronine Free Serum 3.6 pg/mL range 2-4.4

Estrogens Fractionated
Estradiol 16.8 pg/mL range 7.6-42.6
Estrone Serum 46pg/mL range 12-72
Estriol Serum <0.3 ng/mL range not Estab.
Fine (sensitive assay?)

Since bloodwork Docotr has agreed to drop gel and start 1 mL test cyp eow, allowing self administered so doing .5 mL ew on Wednesday ..

IMO you need to switch to injections as you absorb just enough to suppress HPTA (assuming the Test assay is correct) but no impact on serum levels.

Agree with bass' assessment as well.

[Doug350SD]

Is there any correcting the lh and fsh level ?

Primary doctor put me on test cyp, I met with a naturopathic doctor last week and she suggested test prop.. Would this just be a personal preference between doctors or would prop be better to start with?

[steroid.com 1]

Is there any correcting the lh and fsh level ?
Only if you had a thyroid condition which it appears at least you don't.

Primary doctor put me on test cyp, I met with a naturopathic doctor last week and she suggested test prop.. Would this just be a personal preference between doctors or would prop be better to start with?

Personal choice but most here like Cyp.

[TennTarheel]

If I had my preference, I would rather have propionate than enanthate or cypionate . It is a much shorter ester, meaning quicker in, quicker out. The good side would be you could keep very stable test levels with low aromatization if you don't mind injecting ED or EOD. Just my opinion though. I wouldn't mind it

[Vettester]

Prop would be way too difficult to manage for a continuous TRT regiment. By pinning 2x week with cyp, your serum level will be extremely consistent and stable. Pinning with this frequency via SubQ will also keep aromatization to a minimum. I would imagine that a patient would have to inject at least 1x per day to match the stability of what 2x per week of cyp would give you. Not a very convenient protocol IMO.

[kelkel]

Good info above. 100mg per week should work fine for you but it does take time for its full effect. Be patient and be sure to get blood work in 4 weeks or so and post it up. I think you'll be surprised with your results. Naturally adjustments will have to be made and ancillaries added in the future.

Labcorp codes for the proper sensitive assay are as follows. Write them down and take them with you every time so they don't screw it up:

E2 Sensitive: 140244. CPT code 82670

kel

[Doug350SD]

Prop would be way too difficult to manage for a continuous TRT regiment. By pinning 2x week with cyp, your serum level will be extremely consistent and stable. Pinning with this frequency via SubQ will also keep aromatization to a minimum. I would imagine that a patient would have to inject at least 1x per day to match the stability of what 2x per week of cyp would give you. Not a very convenient protocol IMO.

I haven't done sub q before but think I will try it. As I am only doing .5ml once a week that would be .25ml 2 times a week. I'll have to order some pins for this as Doctor only gave a script for 20gx1..

Thanks for your input.

[Doug350SD]

Labcorp codes for the proper sensitive assay are as follows. Write them down and take them with you every time so they don't screw it up:

E2 Sensitive: 140244. CPT code 82670

kel

Thanks for the info,I will definitely give codes to doctor .
Next labs are scheduled on the 30th of November, this would put me at my 9th injection and I have been injecting in the evening Wednesday so test day would be 7 am on Friday, would it be better to test sooner and the test should be on the 3rd day after last injection? Thanks again for you input.

[xcraider37]

only pro-hormones liker superdrol would do that. Not cell tech and stuff from GNC. Also most guys need to take 100 grams of test cream per day minimum because you only absorb 10% of the gel/cream. So you take only two, 5 gram packet's of 1%? That sounds low. Do you know androgel has new 1.62% cream? If it were me, I would search other men taking that cream and see what dose they are having results with and get your doc. to switch you over and/or up your dose.

Two 5 gram packs of androgel is not a low dose. This guy is just not absorbing it, and needs to experiment with different delivery method. Which it appears he is doing.

[Vettester]

I haven't done sub q before but think I will try it. As I am only doing .5ml once a week that would be .25ml 2 times a week. I'll have to order some pins for this as Doctor only gave a script for 20gx1..

Thanks for your input.

Yeah, that's a good pin for drawing, but would be horrible to try and pin with it.

.25cc will load up in approx. 1 minute with a 31g insulin pin. Easy, effective & consistent!! Run with it and I'm sure you will never look back. Also, you can include .25cc of B12 methylcobalamin with it as well ...

[kelkel]

Bet Vette's car that doc of yours wouldn't inject himself with a 20ga harpoon. That's just ridiculous! You'll like subQ and also get yourself some 25ga x 1" 3ml syringes for IM. Having options is a good thing. Just look on line. All are available.

kel

[BULLY! BULLY!]

OK I'm totally new to all this but I have been taking cyp for a little over a year. I thought it had to be im that it was not as effective in fat tissue. Sub is OK?

[steroid.com 1]

^^^^Yes, SQ is 100% effective.

Dr. Crisler will have a instructions on how do this correctly very soon.

[Doug350SD]

To be honest the 20gx1 hasn't been an issue in the glutes. However I am going to order the smaller pins and definitely try sub q.

[TennTarheel]

Damn, 20g. More power to ya bro

[steroid.com 1]

To be honest the 20gx1 hasn't been an issue in the glutes. However I am going to order the smaller pins and definitely try sub q.

Who told you to use a 20g?

That's like sticking a telephone pole into your ass.

I like 27g...smooth as butter!

[kelkel]

Who told you to use a 20g?

That's like sticking a telephone pole into your ass.

I like 27g...smooth as butter!

Care to expand on that?..........

[Doug350SD]

Guys kinda have me wondering now, the nurse told me at my first injection that she uses that all the time, I tried to mention the smaller 25 g but she was like , ohhh no that would take forever..lol so bang it was in and done no time flat.

I have done 2 now one on each side and had no problem, feel a micro pinch then it's kinda like those play needles we had as kids to play doctor you push down and the needle just disappears, I inject slow and kinda feel a warm sensation and all done, I haven't even had a blood spots... I think I'll check the sponsor site tonight and order some..

[TennTarheel]

I've never heard of someone actually recommending a 20g. Owwie dude! Those would however be good to draw with, then switch the needle to a 27g or whatever and inject. If you didn't mind the 20, you'll absolutely love anything 25 and up. You'll be glad in the long run