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Thread: Clomid + TRT + HCG = Fertility.

  1. #1
    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
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    Clomid + TRT + HCG = Fertility.

    I've been told that since I'm on TRT I shouldn't take clomid, as HCG will do the trick, but HCG does not stimulate the FSH levels; only LH levels. Clomid can!

    This guys explains it here. So I'll be taking my clomid with HCG and my TRT dose.

    I time stamped for you guys where he brings up clomid is necessary for fertility, regardless if you are on TRT or not.

    https://youtu.be/Q9S-lDip86g?t=593

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser View Post
    I've been told that since I'm on TRT I shouldn't take clomid, as HCG will do the trick, but HCG does not stimulate the FSH levels; only LH levels. Clomid can!

    This guys explains it here. So I'll be taking my clomid with HCG and my TRT dose.

    I time stamped for you guys where he brings up clomid is necessary for fertility, regardless if you are on TRT or not.

    https://youtu.be/Q9S-lDip86g?t=593
    HCG, in the most of cases, should be enough to keep pregnant. As told in your link, as last choice, you can try to boost it with Clomid, forcing an additional stimulus to make Sertoli Cells more sensitive to testosterone production, which in turn, to raise sperm count.

    Try and see what happen.

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser View Post
    I've been told that since I'm on TRT I shouldn't take clomid, as HCG will do the trick, but HCG does not stimulate the FSH levels; only LH levels. Clomid can!

    This guys explains it here. So I'll be taking my clomid with HCG and my TRT dose.

    I time stamped for you guys where he brings up clomid is necessary for fertility, regardless if you are on TRT or not.

    https://youtu.be/Q9S-lDip86g?t=593
    I did not watch the video, but if the guy is claiming that HCG has no FSH-like activity, the guy obviously does not understand reproductive endocrinology. HCG has both LH and FSH activity.

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    the time stamp is 2 mins left, so you could watch it... what he is saying is that clomid directly effects FSH whereas, HCG mimics LH which helps with intertesitcular test

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser View Post
    the time stamp is 2 mins left, so you could watch it... what he is saying is that clomid directly effects FSH whereas, HCG mimics LH which helps with intertesitcular test
    He's simply wrong with regard to HCG and needs to go back and review his notes from reproductive endocrinology 101 (assuming he even has a degree in the subject). HCG has both LH and FSH activity, but it binds more strongly to LH receptors than FSH receptors.

    He is correct that Clomid will enhance both LH and FSH secretion from the pituitary. Clomind works by selectively binding to estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus to minimize it's negative feedback on GnRH. GnRH is a very short lived polypeptide hormone that stimulates the pituitary to release both LH and FSH. There is considerable debate whether Clomid with overcome negative feedback while on TRT, as both T and E feedback negatively on the hypothalamus. E is simply a much stronger negative feedback signal. Your own labs show that 50 mg of Clomid daily will not overcome the negative feedback.

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    As Youthful55guy told, HCG holds LH and FSH:

    It is heterodimeric, with an α (alpha) subunit identical to that of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), and β (beta) subunit that is unique to hCG.

    The α (alpha) subunit is 92 amino acids long.[8]
    The β-subunit of hCG gonadotropin (beta-hCG) contains 145 amino acids, encoded by six highly homologous genes that are arranged in tandem and inverted pairs on chromosome 19q13.3 - CGB (1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8)[9]


    What the guy in video told in brief, is that HCG-FSH activity is not the same strength of the endogenous one; Clomid ( he states ) should strengthen this activity, synergistically through endogenous FSH production, making Sertoli cells proteins more sensitive to Leydig cells testosterone production.

    I don't know if this has some scientific basis, but it's what he told. But it's like to push accelerator and brake at same times, hoping that one of them overcomes the other one.
    Last edited by Slacker78; 12-26-2017 at 03:51 PM.

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    JuliusPleaser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    He's simply wrong with regard to HCG and needs to go back and review his notes from reproductive endocrinology 101 (assuming he even has a degree in the subject). HCG has both LH and FSH activity, but it binds more strongly to LH receptors than FSH receptors.

    He is correct that Clomid will enhance both LH and FSH secretion from the pituitary. Clomind works by selectively binding to estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus to minimize it's negative feedback on GnRH. GnRH is a very short lived polypeptide hormone that stimulates the pituitary to release both LH and FSH. There is considerable debate whether Clomid with overcome negative feedback while on TRT, as both T and E feedback negatively on the hypothalamus. E is simply a much stronger negative feedback signal. Your own labs show that 50 mg of Clomid daily will not overcome the negative feedback.
    Yea and I also have noticed that I'm still having ED issues for some reason. I had lowered my HCG to 1000mg twice a week; and have been taking 50mg a clomid. I was apparently taking too much Arimidex , 2mg a week, so I started taking .5 twice a week and when I lowered my HCG, but I'm still having this issue.

    My sex drive is gone; not mentally, To combat this, I took the advice and upped my test back to 150mg...but I'm still having the issue I stated above. Physically I don't feel the umph to have it. I also go limp during sex with my wife.

    The clomid feels like its doing something, but that could be mental. My friends who got their wives pregnant would just take clomid while off cycle, but they are not on TRT however.

    The Arimidex should be taking care of high E levels; if 100mg gives me 577 test levels, then I'm assuming 150 will give me 1000, since 200mg gives me 1500 levels.... but I feel like I want to go back to 200mg, but then I think this would interfere with my plan to get her pregnant.

    But if HCG is what is needed to get her pregnant, couldn't I technically be on ANY amount of test, even HIGH dosages, and get her pregnant so long as I am on HCG?

    So I'm still confused because since I am on TRT, I'm gonna have to be on Test forever; so maybe I shouldn't be screwing around bringing me to these lower levels even if it is normal ranges because clearly the effects are not where I want my body to be and I want to be able to preform and get my wife pregnant with a healthy sex drive.
    Last edited by JuliusPleaser; 01-06-2018 at 08:18 AM.

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    I'm not sure what advice to give. My gut reaction is that your estrogen is near zero, since you are taking a lot of anastrozole for a 100 mg/wk TRT protocol. You really should use labs to titrate the dose you need. By comparison, I use about 0.5mg/wk in daily divided doses (vodka eye dropper method). Numerous labs have show this to be about perfect for my 40-50 mg E3D TRT protocol. Low E can have the same symptoms as low T, low energy,ED, and low libido. Guys need E too, just not as much as women.

    I've found that excessive use of clomid can also cause these same issues. I did an experiment once with it and found I could tolerate no more than 12.5mg daily.

    Your HCG use is still very high. Studies have shown that approximately 1000 IU per week in split doses is about optimum for normal testicular function. I've read posts from guys that have had success getting their wives pregnant on 500mg/wk. There are some that claim that testicular produced T converts at a higher rate to E than exogenously administered T, but I've seen no studies to confirm this. In that case, perhaps your E is high, not low, which can cause many of the same symptoms as low T and low E. It's impossible to predict what's going on without proper labs.

    Finally, the lecture on taking excessively high T and calling it TRT. You simply cannot maintain high levels of T indefinitely. You will have side-effects. Are you monitoring your hemoglobin levels and your lipids? Personally, I find that even on my protocol of 40-50mg E3D, I have a difficult time keeping hemoglobin in range. I have to do the maximum allowable frequency of blood donations and that barely keeps it in the high end of the range. I have high SHBG, which adds a whole other level of complexity to the protocol (discussed in other threads). I also have to take a statin daily (Lipitor) to keep my lipids in range.

    Keep in mind too that it takes about 6+ weeks for your body to adapt to changes in your protocol. Reproductive hormones tend to have a cascade effect in the body. That is, altering the levels of one hormone will alter the level of dozens of others and it takes time to get to a new equilibrium. When you keep introducing new changes to the protocol you are a moving target and it's difficult to sort out what working and what is not. No shortcut for this.

    Best wishes for sorting this out and getting your wife pregnant.

  9. #9
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    I appreciate your response.

    I was only taking Arimidex 1mg twice a week for a week; then lowered it to .5 twice a week.

    I was taking that much because I was blasting 2500ius of HCG using the palumbo method which he swears has gotten so many people pregnant.

    I only started the clomid because I had it on hand. I can stop it now.

    If HCG is all I need, then I'll just stick to that.

    So its possible the clomid is the culprit because I've had issues every since 1.) I lowered the HCG from 2500 to 1000 and 2.) when i introduced Clomid.

    I feel the arimidex hasn't been long enough to do much, but Idk yet. I'd have to take another lab at some point.

  10. #10
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    Also my intention to take arimidex was because the high dosages of HCG I was taking.

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