TRT rage

[EDCG19]

Anyone have this same experience while on TRT?
Just pinned today and I feel it again. Every once in a while I'll just get in this bad mood and need to lift to get the rage out of me.

Is it the arimedix doing this? I know some of you guys have said before that you dont need AI on TRT but i'm calling bullshit as I notice odd things when I don't take AI
I'm calling bullshit on that because I see you do need to control estrogen even on 150mg test e. If I don't have the ai i feel weird after a few weeks and i even get this anger or no emotional control state of mind
I dont know why, but it happens

[clarky.]

Not with me, don't get me wrong i get angry and pissed off like everyone but it has nothing to do with my trt as there has been no change with me since i started it years ago.

As for your AI if you need it you need it simple as that. Your blood work would show you need it anyway.

[j2048b]

Try adding in hcg it has always given me a better mood, it is a good side effect in some,

Also try pinning smaller amounts more often, it might be that ur body isn't responding as smoothly with bigger injects?

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[Windex]

Anyone have this same experience while on TRT?
Just pinned today and I feel it again. Every once in a while I'll just get in this bad mood and need to lift to get the rage out of me.

Is it the arimedix doing this? I know some of you guys have said before that you dont need AI on TRT but i'm calling bullshit as I notice odd things when I don't take AI
I'm calling bullshit on that because I see you do need to control estrogen even on 150mg test e. If I don't have the ai i feel weird after a few weeks and i even get this anger or no emotional control state of mind
I dont know why, but it happens

What is your full HRT protocol ? Are you doing any of the following ?

- switch to injecting 3x per week
- 25-50mg DHEA
- 500 to 1000 IU HCG if not already
- Vitamin D between 4000-5000IU with 100mcg K2 and Magnesium
- Using DIM or HGH at all ?


Anger and mood are controlled by multiple hormones beyond Test as well as multiple physiological pathways.

It can also be from something unrelated to HRT. Chronic use of caffeine's and stimulants causes cortisol imbalance which impacts mood.

Vitamin B6 in adequate amounts for an athlete causes anger and mood problems because not enough serotonin and dopamine being created, hence imbalance.

I would guess it's either unrelated to your TRT or your HRT is inadequate and not optimized.

If you have Arimidex is a non negotiable on 150mg of Test that is going to hinder your ability to improve on the situation as well

[EDCG19]

What is your full HRT protocol ? Are you doing any of the following ?

- switch to injecting 3x per week
- 25-50mg DHEA
- 500 to 1000 IU HCG if not already
- Vitamin D between 4000-5000IU with 100mcg K2 and Magnesium
- Using DIM or HGH at all ?


Anger and mood are controlled by multiple hormones beyond Test as well as multiple physiological pathways.

It can also be from something unrelated to HRT. Chronic use of caffeine's and stimulants causes cortisol imbalance which impacts mood.

Vitamin B6 in adequate amounts for an athlete causes anger and mood problems because not enough serotonin and dopamine being created, hence imbalance.

I would guess it's either unrelated to your TRT or your HRT is inadequate and not optimized.

If you have Arimidex is a non negotiable on 150mg of Test that is going to hinder your ability to improve on the situation as well

I'm already on HCg and trt is 150mg per week twice
Same stuff i've always been doing but i feel like something is off

I took the AI out for over a month or so and recently found some problems with this so i added it back in
I doubt the blood work stays consistent with estrogen and it may fulucate to much so now im back on dex at .25mg x2 a week no questions about it i think i need the AI

[Windex]

I'm already on HCg and trt is 150mg per week twice
Same stuff i've always been doing but i feel like something is off

I took the AI out for over a month or so and recently found some problems with this so i added it back in
I doubt the blood work stays consistent with estrogen and it may fulucate to much so now im back on dex at .25mg x2 a week no questions about it i think i need the AI

HCG + Testosterone is not sufficient for HRT so that's problem number one.

Problem number two is the belief you are dependent on a drug never created for HRT with a replacement therapeutic dose of testosterone.

Just because you've been on a program forever doesn't mean it can't be improved upon or isn't fundamentally flawed. I'm on HRT Year #8 and I had zero acne problems until a few months ago. All I had to do was switch hygiene products and incorporate more saunas. A cop out solution would have been to add in Accutane or another pharmaceutical. I achieved in 2 weeks what Accutane takes 6 months to do.

[Youthful55guy]

I'm already on HCg and trt is 150mg per week twice
I doubt the blood work stays consistent with estrogen and it may fulucate to much so now im back on dex at .25mg x2 a week no questions about it i think i need the AI

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? It's been my experience that E2 pretty much follows T levels. Yes it fluctuates somewhat over the course of the injection cycle, just as T goes up and down. That is why it is important to draw blood for your labs on the exact same day of the injection cycle and preferably just before your next T injection. If you are on a 2X per week injection cycle, you have to choose which interval you are going to do the test, 3 or 4 days. This is the only way you can compare one set of labs to another.

I'm not seeing any E labs posted. What is your E2 level? In my humble opinion, using an Ai to control E2 is not something you can do by feel. it must be driven by labs.

[Charlie67]

Out of curiosity what's your estrogen number on that dose? Greatheaded (I think it was him) Posted a video about using AI on TRT recently... I forget the name of the guy that was being interviewed but he talked about the benefits of elevated estrogen levels while on TRT. You might consider checking it out FWIW.

I hope you to get things squared away.
C-

[Charlie67]

https://youtu.be/99BvWJczFX4

[Chrisp83TRT]

I also notice a mood change when I don't take AI but after reading about ai' and the possible skde effects short and long term, I've realised it's not a very healthy compounds to take.

I actually came off if it and even though my mood is what it is.

Gear made a point . The body is a beautiful thing and it will adjust as it always does to things .

I'm also estro sensitive as I Increase , it converts easily to E.

The body is a experiment man... Test things out .

Not like you're on tren lol

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[EDCG19]

Out of curiosity what's your estrogen number on that dose? Greatheaded (I think it was him) Posted a video about using AI on TRT recently... I forget the name of the guy that was being interviewed but he talked about the benefits of elevated estrogen levels while on TRT. You might consider checking it out FWIW.

I hope you to get things squared away.
C-

e2 is usually at 50-75 without AI and this is consistent in the 50s range
with AI im at 20-24 max!
here's the thing the only thing that changed was the ai so why do i feel like shit all of the sudden without the ai, it feels like i have been a bit more moody lately so i think its the estrogen

[GearHeaded]

its AI withdrawal syndrome I finally figured out why guys keep taking AI's over and over again once they get on gear. they are a psychoactive drug with physical dependence . you really think you should be having mental issues with a drug that is supposed to be 100% physiological and simply blunt aromatization ?
couple of educated people in the industry out there right now saying that AI's are mentally addicting and have psychoactive properties and are the most dangerous aspect of TRT and should be utilized very very carefully and as a last resort only

kinda intersting.. maybe this thread is a perfect example of someone who physiologically would not need an AI at all (only 150mg of test and estrogen is fine) . yet emotionally is convinced that he does need an AI (yet only after consuming the drug in the first place). makes me wonder..


fyi- my above statements I'm Kinda making Tongue and cheek and not being real serious. but its worth thinking about

[GearHeaded]

I cannot tell you how many guys I've consulted with over the years that have decided to come off AI's ,, yet its the hardest thing they've done in their whole life . they could kick a coke or drinking habit no problem . but to stop taking an AI is a big deal.. their cycle doesn't call for an AI at all . yet they find themselves in the medicine cabinet trying to sneak .5mg of Arimidex to get their fix



joking , but its actually true

[GearHeaded]

Out of curiosity what's your estrogen number on that dose? Greatheaded (I think it was him) Posted a video about using AI on TRT recently... I forget the name of the guy that was being interviewed but he talked about the benefits of elevated estrogen levels while on TRT. You might consider checking it out FWIW.

I've not quite yet earned the title of "great headed" lol. I'll be posting some update pics on my log here soon and you'll probably all agree I've still got a long way to go

[Couchlockd]

e2 is usually at 50-75 without AI and this is consistent in the 50s range
with AI im at 20-24 max!
here's the thing the only thing that changed was the ai so why do i feel like shit all of the sudden without the ai, it feels like i have been a bit more moody lately so i think its the estrogen

Because your getting used to double the level of e2

It's the flux that causes mood, not stable levels

[EDCG19]

Because your getting used to double the level of e2

It's the flux that causes mood, not stable levels

Well so do i need ai or not, im serious here few days ago had a breakdown and i started the AI again and after i did that i feel normal right now and back to myself
Maybe it was the stress but at this point im blaming the ai, i stopped taking it and after a month i noticed differences in my mood

[Windex]

Well so do i need ai or not, im serious here few days ago had a breakdown and i started the AI again and after i did that i feel normal right now and back to myself
Maybe it was the stress but at this point im blaming the ai, i stopped taking it and after a month i noticed differences in my mood

I addressed this concern in my previous post fyi

[Couchlockd]

Well so do i need ai or not, im serious here few days ago had a breakdown and i started the AI again and after i did that i feel normal right now and back to myself
Maybe it was the stress but at this point im blaming the ai, i stopped taking it and after a month i noticed differences in my mood

Let your body adjust to the elevated estrogen. Once you stop the AI, you'll get an initial flux in ew after about 73 hours. That's probably the point at you feel "fuck this, I feel different, time for AI"

So the few day's you've stopped, didn't really start estrogen build up till after days. Give it a good 7-10 days after stopping AI to reassess if you need it.

Fwiw, NO ONE NEEDS an AI. You can run elevated estrogen and be better than ok

Then some people NEED AN AI, it's just going to be highly educated guesses based on blood work not taken frequently enough to get a perfect answer, unless you want to pull bloods every 2 weeks.

Which is unnecessary, pick a plan, stay with it, run bloods on that protocol without deviation. Then adjust based on what bloods revel

[Fred40]

Let your body adjust to the elevated estrogen. Once you stop the AI, you'll get an initial flux in ew after about 73 hours. That's probably the point at you feel "fuck this, I feel different, time for AI"

So the few day's you've stopped, didn't really start estrogen build up till after days. Give it a good 7-10 days after stopping AI to reassess if you need it.

Fwiw, NO ONE NEEDS an AI. You can run elevated estrogen and be better than ok

I agree with this. I aromatize more than average. For 7 years I took Arimidex (mostly in the .5mg/week dosage)...This year I dropped it after doing a lot of reading on the topic and getting a Dexa Scan that showed the early signs of bone density depletion (-1.1 on my L6 vertebra). I will add that my E2 levels where never below range but where on the lower end of the normal range.

Since going cold turkey on the AI my E2 level jumped up to 74pg/ml (on a standard test...not sensitive). I got some nipple itching that lasted a couple months and has now gone away. No other side effects. I'm 52 and still wake up with wood every single morning, libido is good, mood is good. Overall I feel really good (after getting past the nipple itching phase). No signs of gyno at all. Just as an FYI, I'm currently injecting 40mg E3D of T Cyp and this puts me around 800-850 on trough. No HCG but I do supplement with micronized Pregnenolone and DHEA along with other supplements like D3 with K2 (10,000IU) and Zinc, Boron & Magnesium.

[Chrisp83TRT]

Well so do i need ai or not, im serious here few days ago had a breakdown and i started the AI again and after i did that i feel normal right now and back to myself
Maybe it was the stress but at this point im blaming the ai, i stopped taking it and after a month i noticed differences in my mood

I think 50-75 isn't bad at all .

35 is basically "high normal " depending on age.
I'd be happy to be around 50-75 off ai ..

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[Chrisp83TRT]

I cannot tell you how many guys I've consulted with over the years that have decided to come off AI's ,, yet its the hardest thing they've done in their whole life . they could kick a coke or drinking habit no problem . but to stop taking an AI is a big deal.. their cycle doesn't call for an AI at all . yet they find themselves in the medicine cabinet trying to sneak .5mg of Arimidex to get their fix



joking , but its actually true

I actually stopped taking AI with all the Info youve given me on blast and on cruise trt.

I said fuck it .
It seems being on AI is worse then being off of it

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[EDCG19]

Let your body adjust to the elevated estrogen. Once you stop the AI, you'll get an initial flux in ew after about 73 hours. That's probably the point at you feel "fuck this, I feel different, time for AI"

So the few day's you've stopped, didn't really start estrogen build up till after days. Give it a good 7-10 days after stopping AI to reassess if you need it.

Fwiw, NO ONE NEEDS an AI. You can run elevated estrogen and be better than ok

Then some people NEED AN AI, it's just going to be highly educated guesses based on blood work not taken frequently enough to get a perfect answer, unless you want to pull bloods every 2 weeks.

Which is unnecessary, pick a plan, stay with it, run bloods on that protocol without deviation. Then adjust based on what bloods revel

If i dont need the ai than why was i an emotional mess, i feel it was the estrogen as this doesnt happen often
im not sure but i may have talked about this before, it seems the ai does help but damn i dont kmow anymore i ran dex for months straight and once im off im different

[Windex]

If i dont need the ai than why was i an emotional mess, i feel it was the estrogen as this doesnt happen often
im not sure but i may have talked about this before, it seems the ai does help but damn i dont kmow anymore i ran dex for months straight and once im off im different

Because you have other hormones in your body beyond just Test and Estrogen, and those hormones can cause estrogen dominance and produce unwanted sides. Like I said, if you are only doing Test + HCG then your HRT is incomplete and you are going to run into problems or mask symptoms with drugs that aren't needed.

[Couchlockd]

Because you have other hormones in your body beyond just Test and Estrogen, and those hormones can cause estrogen dominance and produce unwanted sides. Like I said, if you are only doing Test + HCG then your HRT is incomplete and you are going to run into problems or mask symptoms with drugs that aren't needed.

What else is actually needed in trt? Dhea, pregnenolone, progestin?

[Chrisp83TRT]

What else is actually needed in trt? Dhea, pregnenolone, progestin?

Dyfy didn't have me on anything but adex , test and HCG ... And dhea which did nothing .

Of coarse mood will.change bro .

It's like coming off a dependent drug .. it will have you respond poorly without it.

You have to give it time to weed out of your system and you should be good .



That goes with any thing you put into your body.

Stay happy brother

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[Windex]

What else is actually needed in trt? Dhea, pregnenolone, progestin?

I would say Vitamin D is a mandatory hormone because it's responsible for the signalling pathways of other hormones. On paper this would be less fluctuations and more stabilized hormones (ergo moods)IIRC it's also something like top 3 or top 5 deficiencies in North America.

I have little BW, experience, and just anecdote but DHEA seems like another huge one. Used a lot in functional medicine to help with low T. Dr Crisler has all his patients on it men and women. Maybe a placebo effect but it's very inexpensive in Canada so should be even cheaper in USA

I may be an advocate of permanent Deca and/or Primo by the end of this cruise.

May also be a matter of supplementation rather than hormones for OP's case. Magnesium to calm the body anabolic DIM for estrogen

[Chrisp83TRT]

I would say Vitamin D is a mandatory hormone because it's responsible for the signalling pathways of other hormones. On paper this would be less fluctuations and more stabilized hormones (ergo moods)IIRC it's also something like top 3 or top 5 deficiencies in North America.

I have little BW, experience, and just anecdote but DHEA seems like another huge one. Used a lot in functional medicine to help with low T. Dr Crisler has all his patients on it men and women. Maybe a placebo effect but it's very inexpensive in Canada so should be even cheaper in USA

I may be an advocate of permanent Deca and/or Primo by the end of this cruise.

May also be a matter of supplementation rather than hormones for OP's case. Magnesium to calm the body anabolic DIM for estrogen

What's DIM ?

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[Couchlockd]

What's DIM ?

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It's an extract of cruciferous Vegetables that indeed works great as an AI with trt dose test.

I taje it every other day @ 250mg

Diindolyl-methane is it's non abreviated name

[Chrisp83TRT]

It's an extract of cruciferous Vegetables that indeed works great as an AI with trt dose test.

I taje it every other day @ 250mg

Diindolyl-methane is it's non abreviated name

Where do I get this ?
Thanks for the Info bro

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[Couchlockd]

Where do I get this ?
Thanks for the Info bro

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Amazon

Bulksupplements DIM

[Family_guy]

What's DIM ?

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Dim witted! You know who I’m talking about

[Family_guy]

Windex man I’m still waiting to see this amazing physique you must have! “He’s just so smart too!” Gotta love our friend from up north

[Youthful55guy]

What's DIM ?

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As previously mentioned, cruciferous vegetables, such as cabbage and broccoli are rich in a substance called indole-3-carbinol (I3C) and related compounds. Collectively, they are called Diindolylmethane (DIM, in short). DIM helps to promote the metabolism of Estradiol (E2) to lesser active Estriol (E3), which is also a dead end (irreversible) pathway to leading to elimination from the body.

DIM has 3 main effects in men: 1) To reduce levels of highly active E2, 2) to promote displacement of some T from SHBG because E3 has a higher affinity to binding to SHBG than E2 (but still lower than T), and 3) To lower SHBG levels through the action of lowering E2 levels (E2 promotes SHBG production but E3 does not). The net effect of these 3 mechanisms is to increase Free T and reduce bound T, which we all know is a good thing for guys, particularly as we age.

Lowering E2 levels also is advantageous to reducing the risk of prostate cancer, as it is thought that the ratio of T to E is a much more important driving factor in prostate cancer than levels of DHT. Many experts recommend 250-300 mg of DIM per day to reduce the risk of prostate cancer. in fact, a study demonstrated that 3 or more servings of cruciferous vegetables a week can reduce prostate cancer risk almost by half.

I did play around with DIM in my early days of TRT when I was not as well informed as I am now and was (like a lot of guys) paranoid of E2. I combined it with a number of estrogen lowering compounds (including anastrozole) and ended up crushing my E2 down to <5 pg/mL (lower than the assay could detect). I did not feel all that great and has some bad ED as a result. I ended up stopping all E2 treatment and let my E2 increase to the 35 to 50 range, which is where I feel my best.

This is a timely post bringing up the subject of DIM because up until now, I had not considered adding DIM back into my protocol but with more reasonable (or no) use of anastrozole. I'm going to have to add this to my future experiments in balancing my new TRT protocol. My new protocol calls for slightly higher T than in the past (up to 200 mg/week in an E2D protocol) and no Winstrol (to lower my very high SHBG). Perhaps DIM can effectively lower SHBG so that I do not have to go as high on T as I need to do using anastrozole. Food for thought anyway!

[Windex]

As previously mentioned, cruciferous vegetables, such as cabbage and broccoli are rich in a substance called indole-3-carbinol (I3C) and related compounds. Collectively, they are called Diindolylmethane (DIM, in short). DIM helps to promote the metabolism of Estradiol (E2) to lesser active Estriol (E3), which is also a dead end (irreversible) pathway to leading to elimination from the body.

DIM has 3 main effects in men: 1) To reduce levels of highly active E2, 2) to promote displacement of some T from SHBG because E3 has a higher affinity to binding to SHBG than E2 (but still lower than T), and 3) To lower SHBG levels through the action of lowering E2 levels (E2 promotes SHBG production but E3 does not). The net effect of these 3 mechanisms is to increase Free T and reduce bound T, which we all know is a good thing for guys, particularly as we age.

Lowering E2 levels also is advantageous to reducing the risk of prostate cancer, as it is thought that the ratio of T to E is a much more important driving factor in prostate cancer than levels of DHT. Many experts recommend 250-300 mg of DIM per day to reduce the risk of prostate cancer. in fact, a study demonstrated that 3 or more servings of cruciferous vegetables a week can reduce prostate cancer risk almost by half.

I did play around with DIM in my early days of TRT when I was not as well informed as I am now and was (like a lot of guys) paranoid of E2. I combined it with a number of estrogen lowering compounds (including anastrozole) and ended up crushing my E2 down to <5 pg/mL (lower than the assay could detect). I did not feel all that great and has some bad ED as a result. I ended up stopping all E2 treatment and let my E2 increase to the 35 to 50 range, which is where I feel my best.

This is a timely post bringing up the subject of DIM because up until now, I had not considered adding DIM back into my protocol but with more reasonable (or no) use of anastrozole. I'm going to have to add this to my future experiments in balancing my new TRT protocol. My new protocol calls for slightly higher T than in the past (up to 200 mg/week in an E2D protocol) and no Winstrol (to lower my very high SHBG). Perhaps DIM can effectively lower SHBG so that I do not have to go as high on T as I need to do using anastrozole. Food for thought anyway!

I have started DIM after reading Silabolin and Austinite's posts about it. 200mg/day

$10/month here so I imagine can be bought for $5-8/month in the US, if not cheaper.

[Windex]

It's an extract of cruciferous Vegetables that indeed works great as an AI with trt dose test.

I taje it every other day @ 250mg

Diindolyl-methane is it's non abreviated name

Why EOD vs 125mg every day?

[Family_guy]

It seems like a loophole to be able to have a picture of a source as your Avi but not as your username...

[Couchlockd]

Regarding rage.

I know all of us hate the stereotype that it causes rage. But......

To say steroids don't effect our mood and how we process stress and excessive anger is like saying alcohol don't get you drunk or opiates don't make you nod or weed don't get you stoned.

It does, make no mistake.

[Family_guy]

Regarding rage.

I know all of us hate the stereotype that it causes rage. But......

To say steroids don't effect our mood and how we process stress and excessive anger is like saying alcohol don't get you drunk or opiates don't make you nod or weed don't get you stoned.

It does, make no mistake.

Agreed. I haven’t tried anything other than test so far but even that has had an effect on my mood in general. It has made me calmer and in a better mood. The Estrogenic side has certainly made me more emotional...think tearing up at emotional parts of movies etc. anyways point being couch is dead on. It would be silly to assume it wouldn’t change your mood one way or the other

[kelkel]

Are you sure you're getting the sensitive E2 assay and not standard estradiol, right?

[mac34]

What are the side effects of using AI? Assuming you take just enough to stay in mid normal range?

I'm on trt, and I still wait for some improvement, before deciding on AI, but I can't help but notice it matters a great deal what me E2 levels are. There were times I felt on, but most of the time I look, and feel off. And i think it's mostly associated with variations in E2 levels. I especially felt great whenever I had to stop injecting for some reason (happened to me 2 times across 10 months, once coming off cycle, the other time when I had to pause trt because I lost my last vial).

Besides veggies and more frequent injections, are there other non-med ways to lower E2? I have heard that losing fat could help lower aromatase rate, is that true?