HGH use - is 5 days on, 2 off necessary?

**NotSmall** · 08-12-2004, 04:08 PM

Alot of people seem to take their GH 5 days on and 2 days off, I could be wrong but is the idea of this to prevent natural GH production from shutting down?

If so does this really make sense?

The reason I ask is because the way einstein told it in a thread I was reading it sounds as though even if you are injecting twice a day, if you time it right the injected GH fits in nicely with your natural GH feedback loop so natural production continues in between injections. (If I read it right)

In my case I'm only going to run a low dose anyway injecting once a day.
I was going to do 2iu 5 days on & 2 days off (10iu a week) but would it make more sense to just stay at 1.5iu constantly (10.5iu a week) and maintain more stable levels?

I know 1.5iu seems like a ridiculously low dose to some of you but Duck of Death in the over 30 forum seems to have had tremendous success at 1.5iu a day and he's in his 50's so at 26 I should have higher natural GH levels to build on - Am I correct in my reasoning?

I'd love to hear from anyone else who has had success at low dosages.

**DBarcelo** · 08-12-2004, 09:31 PM

No, it isn't necessary to do 5 days on and 2 days off, but it is the safest thing to do. You could do 6 days on and 1 day off. There are side effects associated with taking high doses of GH for a prolonged period of time. Those studies were based on people that actually needed hormone replacement. As far as I remember, the longest studies on healthy adult volunteers only lasted for 6 months and they showed side effects almost emediately at high doeses. At low doses, you really shouldn't see any side effects with GH, but at high doses you will.

None of the side effects is the shutdown of natural GH production, but you can slow it down and lessen the amount of GH your body produces, especially if you inject twice a day.

GH isn't secreted 24hrs a day, but your hypothalimus constantly measures levels of everything in your blood, including GH, if it detects a relatively high amount of GH in your system it isn't going to signal but for a very small amount of GH to be produced. Since GH disipates quickly, it's not normally a problem, but when you inject twice a day, you increase the chance that your body will catch the extra GH and not produce as much of it's own as it normally would. To be safe on both accounts, you take off a day or two every week and then you take a week off every few months just to let your body get used to producing it's own at full capacity so you don't end up reseting your base line levels for GH production. Not very likely to happen any way, but better to be safe than sorry.

**DBarcelo** · 08-12-2004, 09:40 PM

I decided to break the answer up so it's a little easier to read.

It really depends on your goals if it makes more sense to run 1.5IU per day, but I would never say that it makes more sense to run it 7 days a week unless you actually need it. If you are only looking for fat loss, then that's just fine. If you're looking to gain muscle, it's not going to happen at that dose (more than likely).

And you have the whole age thing backwards. As you get older, your GH production tends to lower. If you suppliment a low dose of GH in your 50's you're going to see a big difference because you have very little in your body. If you suppliment a low dose of GH in your 20's you're not going to see much of a difference because your body is used to having high levels of GH.

Kind of like taking two 8 oz cups, one has 1 oz of water in it and the other has 7 ozs of water in it. If you add 1 oz of water to each cup, you're not making much of a dent in the cup with the 7 ozs, but you've doubled the amount of water in the cup with only 1 oz of water in it.
That 1.5 is doubling his level, while you would need to take several times that amount in order to double your level.
By doubling his level (I'm not saying he's actually doubling his GH by taking 1.5IU) he's going to see a huge difference. When he's 70, he would be able to take only 1IU per day and still see a huge difference. If he were in his 90's, he could take .5IU per day and see the same huge difference. Etc, etc.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 01:03 AM

DBarcelo - yeah I kinda figured it might work that way round, thats why I asked.

I am using it mainly for fat loss so I'll probably run it 1.5iu a day between AS cycles then step it up to 2iu (still a low dose, I know) when I start my next cycle.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 04:26 AM

DBarcelo - I've been thinking about what you said on the age issue. It definitely makes sense that he, being older, would see a higher proportional rise in GH. Using made up figures for example if his natural GH is 1.5iu and mine is say 3iu by adding a further injected 1.5iu he is doubling his GH whereas I am only increasing mine by a factor of 1.5. I agree.

However, and I'm not disagreeing with you here as you seem very knowledgeable on the subject, his resultant levels of GH would be 3iu, mine would be 4.5iu - is there not something to be said for this?

**DBarcelo** · 08-13-2004, 07:35 AM

his resultant levels of GH would be 3iu, mine would be 4.5iu - is there not something to be said for this?

Those proportions aren't accurate at all. What I wrote was completely ficticious. First off, the point is that he will have more of a difference in GH levels. And if you did end up with more GH in your system than him, his body is longer used to having high levels of GH, so his body is still going to react stronger than yours. I can use another example to simplify the idea for you.

If you have two cars, both really nice sports cars. One owner has always put regular gas in his car and the other has always put premium gas in his car. If one day a new higher octane gas comes out that's a little better than premium and the person that has always used premium decides to use it, his car runs a little better. If the person that has only used regular gas decides to bump up to premium, and not even the newer top of the line stuff, he's going to see a huge improvement in engine performance because his car really calls for premium gas. Even though the person with the higher octane gas has a good running machine, he sees little change, while the person that now has a good working machine by switching to premium sees a huge difference in performance. The one with the newer higher octane gas may still be performing a little better than the other guy, but the other guy doesn't care because he's doing a hell of a lot better than he was before.

The older guy is like that person that was always using regular gas. He sees a huge improvement, but he still isn't functioning quite at the level that you are functioning at, but he doesn't care, he sees a huge difference. You think that you will be able to jump up in performance, but you're only going to see a very slight improvement.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 08:06 AM

DBarcelo - I'm not a simpleton, I can understand the concept of a higher proportional increase perfectly well without stories about sports cars for gods sake - don't insult my intelligence!

Also - I know the figures aren't accurate. They were, as I stated, made up figures to illustrate the point that while the older user would see a greater proportional increase the younger user has the advantage of building on a higher natural level of GH. So yes the older user sees the greatest improvement in performance but the younger user still has an improvement and has the greatest performance overall. Not that my aim is to compete with him, good luck to him, I just mean that it will improve my performance.

If that is a struggle for you to understand then say so and I will make it into a story about race cars, bicycles, apples & oranges or whatever you like!

Sorry for the bitchy tone of this post but not only did you give me an analogy about sports cars suitable for 5 yr olds, you then explained underneath which car represented each person - how annoying! Especially when I already acknowledged that he would see the biggest improvent in the first paragraph of my post!

**DBarcelo** · 08-13-2004, 08:45 AM

You actually had me laughing over here. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence. You have to realize that other people are reading this also, and not everyone can really grasp the idea as quickly as you. I always try to say things as simply as I can with rare exception.

My point is, you're going to see some improvement, but only mild at that dose, because your body is already used to having a large amount of GH in it, even if your GH level is higher than the older guy, you're still only going to see a very slight improvement in yourself. You can't predict your results based on someone that's twice your age.

Yes, there is something to be said about your GH level being elevated higher than his and him having such good results even though his body has less GH, but since his body hasn't had high amounts of natural GH in decades, he will still get more improvements than you.

**DBarcelo** · 08-13-2004, 08:49 AM

I hope that I was able to address your concern, but the original question was very vague "is there not something to be said for this?". I don't do very well with vague questions, I'm a logical thinker, that just messes me all up. I guess I got extrememly simple also so that I could touch on all possible answers to the question without turning it into a book.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 08:58 AM

I'm glad you took that last post well, I don't want to come across as rude especially when I'm the one seeking advice!

I think that, all things considered, I will run the GH at 2iu six days a week with the possibility of increasing to 3ius when my next AS cycle starts. This seems to be an average dosage if the purpose is to shed fat.

Thanks for your advice again, oh and I don't suppose you've got a picture of those sports cars have you? you know, the really nice ones you told me about earlier!

**DBarcelo** · 08-13-2004, 09:05 AM

You should work your way up. Start at 1 IU for a few days, then 2 IU until you decide to go up to 3 IU. Most side effects come from jumping right into your maintenance dose.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 09:30 AM

Cheers bro, that sounds like a good plan!

**DBarcelo** · 08-13-2004, 09:34 AM

No problem.

**NotSmall** · 08-13-2004, 10:42 AM

Hey DBarcelo I'm not being argumentative or anything, but on the subject of age related results on GH, solidsnake claims to be getting great results on just 1iu a day, and he's only 19.
I'm not using this to argue against anything above but it is an indication at least that a low dose at a low age can work.

**DBarcelo** · 08-14-2004, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by NotSmall

Hey DBarcelo I'm not being argumentative or anything, but on the subject of age related results on GH, solidsnake claims to be getting great results on just 1iu a day, and he's only 19.
I'm not using this to argue against anything above but it is an indication at least that a low dose at a low age can work.

A 19 year old really can't tell the difference. His natural GH production is so high right now that the extra 1IU isn't really making any difference. It's creating more of a placibo effect than anything else. If someone switched that GH with plain sterile water, he would still be getting the same great results.