What to take when off GH / IGF

**kingof516** · 05-09-2005, 09:54 AM

I only run gh or igf, no AAS ( i know, its wierd but it works). What would you reccomend i take in between cycles. I am wrapping up my first IGF cycle, and will be back on again in a month...or so..

**rodge** · 05-09-2005, 10:14 AM

have you thought about slin?

-rodge

**GearIdentity** · 05-09-2005, 11:27 AM

Maybe anavar , slin and creatine?

**keithquig** · 05-09-2005, 01:22 PM

just run aas like var/eq/primo/winny

**j martini** · 05-09-2005, 01:34 PM

You would get much better results for the dollar if you where to run only AAS instead of just GH/IGF.
Why?

**spound** · 05-09-2005, 02:03 PM

Yea, I dont see why you wouldnt run AAS with IGF or AAS...hell I think AAS would give you better results, I here IGF/GH just compliment everything else and push you to that next level

**MMA** · 05-09-2005, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by kingof516

I only run gh or igf, no AAS ( i know, its wierd but it works). What would you reccomend i take in between cycles. I am wrapping up my first IGF cycle, and will be back on again in a month...or so..

it is your choice, but people get so wrapped up with the sides of AS, they don't realize that (according to a recent paper by an anti-aging doc) not only is GH mch more expensive, it has a worse side effect to benefit ratio than safe intelligent AS use.

and IGF is so new, we have virtually no track record on it compared to AS. for all we know it could be the most dangerous stuff out there. unlike AS, it has never been approved by the FDA for human use.

i realize you're probably getting great benefits doing it your way, but have you ever tried a var/low dose test cycle to compare sides/benefits?

**MMA** · 05-09-2005, 10:42 PM

also, the test will counter the GH insulin resistance side effect

**kingof516** · 05-10-2005, 07:45 AM

i don't know i gained about 12 lbs of solid muscle from my combo of gh and igf. I am considering running igf long term. I love the results, and the ease of small slin pins. Plus I don't have any interest in AAS too much crap to deal with IMO....IGF GH the sides are nominal...if any other than positive.

But back to the point slin, anavar eh...my goals are to keep my gains and if anything maybe a little more mass gains.

**MMA** · 05-10-2005, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

i realize you're probably getting great benefits doing it your way, but have you ever tried a var/low dose test cycle to compare sides/benefits?

as i noted, you are probably getting great results, i would expect at least 12 pounds. i'm just sayig that you could get better results for less money (and less sides) adding safe intelligent AS use.

have you tried AS? in a safe intelligent manner? i'm not joking that there are safe and effective cycles with less sides than GH, and my opinion was backed up by a doctor who did a study comparing them.

i'm sure you barely notice the sides from your GH. you would barely notice the sides from a safe cycle...except for the fact that you feel great and your girlfriend has trouble walking

**kingof516** · 05-11-2005, 08:02 AM

what sides...im happy...i eat my face off...and i dont have to worry about a thing. I know I am the anomally on the board...but I went from about 12-13 % bf to 8 my waist went from a 32-33 to a 30...and i still put on 17 lbs...sorry i was off..it works...I prefer for right now to stay away from AAS..I am sure there are many great benefits to it...but with how well i responded to GH/IGF there is little interest..

**BigBub** · 05-11-2005, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by kingof516

what sides...im happy...i eat my face off...and i dont have to worry about a thing. I know I am the anomally on the board...but I went from about 12-13 % bf to 8 my waist went from a 32-33 to a 30...and i still put on 17 lbs...sorry i was off..it works...I prefer for right now to stay away from AAS..I am sure there are many great benefits to it...but with how well i responded to GH/IGF there is little interest..

How much igf and hgh were you using and for how long? 17lbs is great for gains on those two without aas.

**kingof516** · 05-12-2005, 03:18 PM

well consider fat loss too. Its SICK

I ran 3ius of GH a day for 6 months (jino)
and then 1mg of igf 40-60 mcgs for 2 weeks
and now finishing up 1mg of igf 20mcgs for about 3 weeks or so..

**MMA** · 05-12-2005, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by kingof516

well consider fat loss too. Its SICK

I ran 3ius of GH a day for 6 months (jino)
and then 1mg of igf 40-60 mcgs for 2 weeks
and now finishing up 1mg of igf 20mcgs for about 3 weeks or so..

unfortunately, this will not last.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/87/8/3573#R7

**keithquig** · 05-12-2005, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by kingof516

i don't know i gained about 12 lbs of solid muscle from my combo of gh and igf. I am considering running igf long term. I love the results, and the ease of small slin pins. Plus I don't have any interest in AAS too much crap to deal with IMO....IGF GH the sides are nominal...if any other than positive.

But back to the point slin, anavar eh...my goals are to keep my gains and if anything maybe a little more mass gains.

IMO i would rather start off with aas to get to my genetic potential...then up my genetic potential with gh/igf/slin/aas cycles

**needmassx3** · 05-14-2005, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

unfortunately, this will not last.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/87/8/3573#R7

I thought you kept your gains from using GH

**MMA** · 05-14-2005, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by needmassx3

I thought you kept your gains from using GH

you are correct, you tend to keep your gains from GH. unfortunately, after a year, you begin to become resistant to it and the gains slow down. by the third year, your tolerance to GH has gone up so much you get dramaticly less benefit. and depending on your dosing schedule, this resistance can last a YEAR AND A HALF after administration, seriously affecting your results.

this study probably explains a lot of what happened with the anti-aging research in the 90's. at first everyone who took it raved about the results, and it was suposed to change aging forever. GH is still a potent tool, but it never seemed to fufill the promise it originally had.

the resistance built up so slowly, it was probably just taken as another sign of aging.

**needmassx3** · 05-14-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

you are correct, you tend to keep your gains from GH. unfortunately, after a year, you begin to become resistant to it and the gains slow down. by the third year, your tolerance to GH has gone up so much you get dramaticly less benefit. and depending on your dosing schedule, this resistance can last a YEAR AND A HALF after administration, seriously affecting your results.

this study probably explains a lot of what happened with the anti-aging research on the 90's. at first everyone who took it raved about the results, and it was suposed to change aging forever. GH is still a potent tool, but it never seemed to fufill the promise it originally had.

the resistance built up so slowly, it was probably just taken as another sign of aging.

Ah i see.

**kingof516** · 05-16-2005, 07:30 AM

that makes sense to some affect, but the same would apply for aas no? all you are doing is spiking your natural levels. Your body exists off of homeostasis(Sp). I think doing short runs of igf, and low amounts of gh, will help to create a diff type of reaction in your body. If dosed correctly, and not long term, as i am tempted to run often.

It addreses alternate day dosing, while i am short (thanks dik) my plates are fused, and wihle i wouldnt mind growing it is not going to happen.

**MMA** · 05-16-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by kingof516

that makes sense to some affect, but the same would apply for aas no? all you are doing is spiking your natural levels. Your body exists off of homeostasis(Sp). I think doing short runs of igf, and low amounts of gh, will help to create a diff type of reaction in your body. If dosed correctly, and not long term, as i am tempted to run often.

It addreses alternate day dosing, while i am short (thanks dik) my plates are fused, and wihle i wouldnt mind growing it is not going to happen.

it's a big mistake to try and apply the same rules to GH that you apply to AS, they're very different substances. with AS, the big issue is suppression and bringing back endogenous production. with GH, levels return to normal quickly, even after years of treatment. but you are still effectively GH deficient because your body is resistant and no longer responds to GH very well. in the study it took a year and a half to recover from GH resistance (depending on dosing schedule)

**inevitable** · 05-27-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by MMA

it's a big mistake to try and apply the same rules to GH that you apply to AS, they're very different substances. with AS, the big issue is suppression and bringing back endogenous production. with GH, levels return to normal quickly, even after years of treatment. but you are still effectively GH deficient because your body is resistant and no longer responds to GH very well. in the study it took a year and a half to recover from GH resistance (depending on dosing schedule)

well wat if u do only one 6-month cycle?

**kaorialfred** · 05-27-2005, 09:38 PM

this is intresting, I have been poking around on other boards also and none seem to have this angle or point of view. Which I am sure it will be a hot topic soon.

So these pro's BB that have been doing GH for years while competeing. After 3 year or 4 years of GH with pro doses of (12 or 8 IU) at the most. Wouldn't they would have said by now or someone would have said this info.

I don't know if I am following this correctly. But lately there is so much GH and IGF talk and its getting very confusing. (EOD injections, IGF and GH doses, AS combos, ) I am glad you put that link in MMA. That's good, it helps to have some kind of fact finding to fall back on.

I am curious right now about GH and these anti-aging clinics if they are selling you (who ever) GH and telling you that you can use this stuff for years without building up a resistance too it.

I was actually told that by one clinic.

anyway good discussions going on here.

must keep reading

**MMA** · 05-27-2005, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by kaorialfred

this is intresting, I have been poking around on other boards also and none seem to have this angle or point of view. Which I am sure it will be a hot topic soon.

So these pro's BB that have been doing GH for years while competeing. After 3 year or 4 years of GH with pro doses of (12 or 8 IU) at the most. Wouldn't they would have said by now or someone would have said this info.

I don't know if I am following this correctly. But lately there is so much GH and IGF talk and its getting very confusing. (EOD injections, IGF and GH doses, AS combos, ) I am glad you put that link in MMA. That's good, it helps to have some kind of fact finding to fall back on.

I am curious right now about GH and these anti-aging clinics if they are selling you (who ever) GH and telling you that you can use this stuff for years without building up a resistance too it.

I was actually told that by one clinic.

anyway good discussions going on here.

must keep reading

i'm still researching, and the topic is still being debated. hooker swears by EOD, red baron has used 5/2, 6 months on, month or 2 off, for MANY years, and still has good results. this may be all it takes to beat resistance. the study was an eye opener, but it may not be completely relevant to us.

as far as long term use by the pro's and the aged- 2 years to develop resistance could EASILY creep up on you. older athletes might just think theyre getting old, and the pros just keep taking higher and higher dosages of GH.

**Keywestlifter** · 05-28-2005, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by MMA

unfortunately, this will not last.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...l/87/8/3573#R7

Hey Bro,

A while back there was a thread here that I cant find. It had a link to a study that included graphs showing Gh alone, Igf alone, and Igf together with Gh. Do you have that link.

Thanks,

keywestlifter