IGF-I and cutting

[kaorialfred]

So I am doing another phase of getting down to 200 hopefully or less. I started at 280 in July now I am at 260 still having some water issues but I am on HRT so I will bloat. I have decided to use IGF again but at 40/40 split for workout days and 40 only on non workout days.

yesterday was a workout day but I didn't get to go. So I just did some body weight work and took my shot as ususal

Last night the wife and I went to dinner. I was hungry, I mean like major hungry.

I didn't think IGF would kick in so fast its only been two days since I started. Is this okay? and what should I do about appetite increase? Maybe get some garauna or something to kill the appetite.

any suggestions?

[SPIKE]

Wow you're looking to drop 80lbs?? Whats your BF% at???

I felt my IGF kick in from the start................I mean literally a couple of days. No crazy pumps or anything like that but could tell it was making its course.

I hate band-aids, I feel Garauna will help but better to nip it now then to patch it up. You have a problem which is being constantly hungry. If you cover it up with a band-aid then eventually its going to peel off and you're going to overeat all the time. You cant run Garauna for that long and I"m sure its going to take you a while to burn off 80lbs. Longer then you will be on a cycle of Garuana for.

When I"m starving and tryign to cut. I'll try to satisfy my hunger with a snickers..............................J/K. I like those commercials though.
I'll eat something heavy in good fats or protein. Sure it will bump up your calories a bit but will hold you over for a while.

One of my professors was talking about how there is a chemical in your body that tells your brain when you're full. Thats why some people who are extremely obese lack this chemical or have a smaller than average amount of it. he was saying how they are trying to come out with a synthetic version to stop hunger pains. Let me tell you that whoever is the first to put that out will be filthy rich. Imagine being hungry and just popping a pill and bang you're full..............

Before someonne asks the name of the chemical I'll find out this week.

[kaorialfred]

Wow you're looking to drop 80lbs?? Whats your BF% at???

I felt my IGF kick in from the start................I mean literally a couple of days. No crazy pumps or anything like that but could tell it was making its course.

I hate band-aids, I feel Garauna will help but better to nip it now then to patch it up. You have a problem which is being constantly hungry. If you cover it up with a band-aid then eventually its going to peel off and you're going to overeat all the time. You cant run Garauna for that long and I"m sure its going to take you a while to burn off 80lbs. Longer then you will be on a cycle of Garuana for.

When I"m starving and tryign to cut. I'll try to satisfy my hunger with a snickers..............................J/K. I like those commercials though.
I'll eat something heavy in good fats or protein. Sure it will bump up your calories a bit but will hold you over for a while.

One of my professors was talking about how there is a chemical in your body that tells your brain when you're full. Thats why some people who are extremely obese lack this chemical or have a smaller than average amount of it. he was saying how they are trying to come out with a synthetic version to stop hunger pains. Let me tell you that whoever is the first to put that out will be filthy rich. Imagine being hungry and just popping a pill and bang you're full..............

Before someonne asks the name of the chemical I'll find out this week.

yep I am trying won't say I will succed but will still try. I had bf% it was 20% I carry fat in the ab and chest mostly
I am waiting for the water tank truck to come to the gym to get my bf%. I have had 3 trainers do it. So I am about 20-25%. I recall the info I have heard on WebMD awhile ago. Saiety, I tell ya even on 5 hts of acid back in the day. I could eat so I doubt that any appetite suppressent will work on me yet?

I hope I can get some of your diet info? PM me some info.

Lately I havent' felt anything but yesterday I was walking up the stairs a couple of times and my calves were pumped all the way until this morning.

The hunger on this is unreal to me. I couldn't belive how much I ate (seafood broilled ) and how I could literally eat another order, of my 22 bucks dinner.
yeah I have clen that I have been just letting collect dust. I plan on using it lightly in the winter. Its too hot right now in Co to use it for my taste. So I should have awsome workouts coming ahead!

[Pinnacle]

Eating slow is a very effective way to fool your mind into thinking your full.All dietitians will tell you that.It's no secret.that's for sure.

~Pinnacle~

[kaorialfred]

yup tha's for sure Pinnacle thanks for your help.
I have been reading some of your post and appreciate your
help on stuff here.
I typically don't ask questions too much because a lot of times its already been asked.
But I do appreciate you guys that answer and help out with good sound advice.

[pro-man]

IGF acts similar to insulin as a glycogen transmitter. The key to helping it work well is to eat, with timing of carbohydrates being important. Taking for granted your doing your IGF before and after each workout; I would eat my carbs then. As the evening moves forward you may want to do one more small shot, a third injection, of the IGF, but this time keeping carbs down. Taking 25mcg of t3 daily will also help toggled with clen two weeks n two weeks off. If you cut your calories to low while on IGF your wasting it though. Hope this helps!

[Pinnacle]

IGF acts similar to insulin as a glycogen transmitter. The key to helping it work well is to eat, with timing of carbohydrates being important. Taking for granted your doing your IGF before and after each workout; I would eat my carbs then. As the evening moves forward you may want to do one more small shot, a third injection, of the IGF, but this time keeping carbs down. Taking 25mcg of t3 daily will also help toggled with clen two weeks n two weeks off. If you cut your calories to low while on IGF your wasting it though. Hope this helps!

I don't know what board/boards you came from.But I have yet to see a dosing protocol calling for IGF before training,then immediately after training..let alone a third PM shot...

~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

I don't know what board/boards you came from.But I have yet to see a dosing protocol calling for IGF before training,then immediately after training..let alone a third PM shot...

~Pinnacle~

That's new to me...............

[SPIKE]

I hope I can get some of your diet info? PM me some info.

PM Sent

[Seattle Junk]

Eating slow is a very effective way to fool your mind into thinking your full.All dietitians will tell you that.It's no secret.that's for sure.

~Pinnacle~

I've also read to drink a couple glasses of water before eating so your stomach feels full and you won't eat as much.

[pro-man]

I don't know what board/boards you came from.But I have yet to see a dosing protocol calling for IGF before training,then immediately after training..let alone a third PM shot...

~Pinnacle~

Try looking me up at VIP, steriodsuperboard, offshorebodybuilding, Anabolicboard and Unitedbodybuilding. I am a VET on all these boards as well as a respected source for information among other things. I have been bodybuilding and in this game for 28 years, and I am old enough to be most bro's fathers who post on these boards. I stopped by here just to visit, I do that from time to time on a few boards.

As far as dosing for IGF-1, the only way I would recommend using it is with a carb drink before working out and then emmediatly after. It acts alot like insulin so there for you need to take advantage of its glycogen shuttling properties to get the most out of it. IGf works best when you keep your levels high. Bro's who only do it after they work out are missing out on alot of gains. Don't believe me though, try visiting OMEGA he has a banner on most of the popular sites I mentioned as well as Outllaw and I believe ghost gym as well. He has been in the iGF biz for awhile and recommends the exact protocol as I do. No disrespect intended but I am amazed that you have never heard of this before. If you need any more info I would be glad to help, please give me a shout. [email protected]/

Much Respect, Pro-Man/ Progressive Labs

[Pinnacle]

None taken.I should have clarified I've ran LR3 IGF-1 (6) times.Also,I'm no child either.You aren't all that much older than me.Nor am I a newbie by any means.
I'm very much aware of Omega,but I prefer MR's product over there's.Just a matter of preference.
Now that we have that out of the way.here's how I run my IGF cycles.Bare in mind I train evenings.

AM 40 mcg 15 minutes after breakfast
PWO-Have a shake that consists of 80 g Dextrose/40 g Whey.Then 40 mcg shot.One hour later a solid meal.
I've always done well like this .Furthermore OMega himself has been on the board and posted this protocol as well.Did he recently change his protocol?

Anyway,nice to meet you.And yes you're correct.This is a newbie board for the most part.BUT don't be fooled.We have alot of intelligent bro's here.


Be Good

~Pinnacle~

[pro-man]

Nice to meet you as well. I am familier with MR"s products and I hear they work well. I use 85% pure IGF-1 in lyophilized form and reconstitute it myself with .6% acetic acid solution. Very fresh and very potent this way. Unlike BA, Acetic acid will not degrade the IGF-1. Reading your IGF protocol is the exact way I started using IGF the first couple of times I did it. The insert to Igtropin says to do a shot am and a shot pm nothing more. My proccesses changed the day I did my first shot of IGF with a carb drink and trained arms, my life has changed since that day. I read that Omega did that in one of his post so thats where I got the idea. I try to do 3 shots a day, but some days I get busy and it gets to be too late for my last shot. I do 40-50mcgs before, 40-50mcgs after and smaller shot later in the day to go with my mid day HGH shot. I do 6iu's HGH everyday in divided doses year around. I urge you to try the IGF before you workout sometimes with a carb shake and 50 mcgs of Oral turnibol as well. Life will be wonderful.

Here is a post I pulled from Offshore a few minutes ago, I couldnt find his main post but this is Omega's take on IGF dosing. Be sure to give me ashout on cyber sometime, would love to direct you to some really pure IGF.

(Omega)
Brick ... I have a post up on here on how and when to do your igf... Its not about timing really its more about keeping your igf levels stable, and not spiking them up and down... as for some foks, it doesn't bother them to take some igf before bed time... I dont, and will not do that. Thats like taking some slin before bed... You just dont do it... Thats what gh is for... take the gh before bed time, and drink you a 40 gram protien shake, with NO CARDS In it, and sleep like a baby!! Being that igf-1 will last you aprox. anywhere from 4-6 hrs after injection. you want to measure by that... Im still studing the small dosages of igf at a time.. to see what kind of life it presents... but I would not go under 30mcgs at one time... Im 241, and I do 80mcgs starting off and bump up to 100 mcgs a day..and thats doing 30 mcgs am, and 30mcgs little after noon, and 40mcgs prior to working out in the evening.... and I get great results, but thats with my knowing how, and learning the tricks and trades of using igf and other things with it, NOT AAS wise either! Vitiamins and supplements is what Im speaking of... Hope this helps, and thanks Sphinks for your posting while I've been out.


Peace out,
Omega

[Pinnacle]

Interesting!!!I always enjoy reading a new approach to cycling ect.I also enjoy experimenting with compounds to find out what works for me.I'm not a sheep by any means.I do need to get out more and go to some boards that don't have the usual AR click hanging on them.You see the same exact views on some other boards as you do here.Alot of guys on this board travel in a click.This is their home board,but they all hang on the same small boards as well.
Actually,I'm gonna go over to offshore and join right now.I'm somewhat familiar with the board.A Chinese guy I know hangs their sometimes.

~Pinnacle~

[Seattle Junk]

Very interesting on the pre workout shot by pro-man. I wish there was more info to access on that. PWO makes a lot of sense during that short recovery window following training where your muscles soak up everything. Doesn't the igf help with building glycogen in the muscles for the next training session? So why would pre workout shots have an immediate benefit since glycogen stores are already full? Damn, I'll start trying it this way if it logically makes sense and other people are seeing better results.

[SPIKE]

Very interesting on the pre workout shot by pro-man. I wish there was more info to access on that. PWO makes a lot of sense during that short recovery window following training where your muscles soak up everything. Doesn't the igf help with building glycogen in the muscles for the next training session? So why would pre workout shots have an immediate benefit since glycogen stores are already full? Damn, I'll start trying it this way if it logically makes sense and other people are seeing better results.

You know that's what kills me SJ. Sometimes I/You/We look into things logically and do it as it "should" work. Then others get much better results trying it other ways. I guess when it comes to certain compounds it's trial an error. I wont be the guiney pig in any experiment though.

Just to add too Pro-mans Statement, My workout partner ran IGF1-LR3 Pre & PWO as well and got tremendous results. Sick pumps, vascularity, LBM gain w/ decrease in BF%. The reason I ran PWO only was b/c it seemed logically the best way to do it.

[Seattle Junk]

You know that's what kills me SJ. Sometimes I/You/We look into things logically and do it as it "should" work. Then others get much better results trying it other ways. I guess when it comes to certain compounds it's trial an error. I wont be the guiney pig in any experiment though.

Just to add too Pro-mans Statement, My workout partner ran IGF1-LR3 Pre & PWO as well and got tremendous results. Sick pumps, vascularity, LBM gain w/ decrease in BF%. The reason I ran PWO only was b/c it seemed logically the best way to do it.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. It would be nice to get some data trickled down from some pro BBs using this method. Of course they're always ahead of everybody else.

Your partner split his dosage up pre and PWO or he was doing the whole amount at one time?

[kaorialfred]

I guess I finally asked a good question

[SPIKE]

Yeah, I totally agree with you. It would be nice to get some data trickled down from some pro BBs using this method. Of course they're always ahead of everybody else.

Your partner split his dosage up pre and PWO or he was doing the whole amount at one time?

He tried both, 30mcg pre and Post. Then just 50mcg Pre. He said he got better results running the entire amount 50mcg Pre.


Now as far as getting some advice from the Pro's. One of my friends is good friends with a Pro BB. He's gonig with him to the Olympia for his competition as he does every year. He said he'll ask him about IGF and dosing. When he finds out I'll find out, hence you will find out.

[pro-man]

Interesting!!!I always enjoy reading a new approach to cycling ect.I also enjoy experimenting with compounds to find out what works for me.I'm not a sheep by any means.I do need to get out more and go to some boards that don't have the usual AR click hanging on them.You see the same exact views on some other boards as you do here.Alot of guys on this board travel in a click.This is their home board,but they all hang on the same small boards as well.
Actually,I'm gonna go over to offshore and join right now.I'm somewhat familiar with the board.A Chinese guy I know hangs their sometimes.

~Pinnacle~

Please do come by Offshore, I think Pecs made it private but just mention me for a ref, I am good friends with him. I have found you are right about the clicks. Sometimes you have to wonder out past them to get different views. Its been my experience that alot of bro's get info that may not be accurate but its been recirculated among the boards for so long its taken as fact. I am sure you have heard your share.

[pro-man]

He tried both, 30mcg pre and Post. Then just 50mcg Pre. He said he got better results running the entire amount 50mcg Pre.


Now as far as getting some advice from the Pro's. One of my friends is good friends with a Pro BB. He's gonig with him to the Olympia for his competition as he does every year. He said he'll ask him about IGF and dosing. When he finds out I'll find out, hence you will find out.

The IGF I am talking about in lyophilized form with its pre and post workout protocol are on the Olympia stage this year. I have found that alot of pro's, a couple I know personally, take advice anywhere they can get it. They stay humble and try new ideas all the time. The two I know personally just throw down the insulin when doing IGF and make sure they do a small shot no more than 4 hours a part, in 60 day cycles. They stack it with HGH and t3, the HGH helps the IGF stay active for more than the usual 5 weeks of recommended usage. I am on day 58 and I am still responding well doing 100-120 mcgs daily with 6 iu's HGH daily. I am head to toe veins and I look like a cartoon character when I pump up in the gym. Also pro's never come off the juice which I am sure most of you allready know. Craig Titus used to work out with me and at that time he was on year 5, one big cycle and that was 13 years ago. My advice is not for everyone, expecially newbies to the anabolic game so always go slow, everybody responds diferently, my advice here is targeted to the advanced bodybuilders who are familier with long cycles. Thanks!

[Pinnacle]

Please do come by Offshore, I think Pecs made it private but just mention me for a ref, I am good friends with him. I have found you are right about the clicks. Sometimes you have to wonder out past them to get different views. Its been my experience that alot of bro's get info that may not be accurate but its been recirculated among the boards for so long its taken as fact. I am sure you have heard your share.

I joined up earlier.I had to use pinnacle1 since pinnacle was taken already.I posted in the new members intro forum.I'm sure I'll see you there.


~Pinnacle~

[Seattle Junk]

The IGF I am talking about in lyophilized form with its pre and post workout protocol are on the Olympia stage this year. I have found that alot of pro's, a couple I know personally, take advice anywhere they can get it. They stay humble and try new ideas all the time. The two I know personally just throw down the insulin when doing IGF and make sure they do a small shot no more than 4 hours a part, in 60 day cycles. They stack it with HGH and t3, the HGH helps the IGF stay active for more than the usual 5 weeks of recommended usage. I am on day 58 and I am still responding well doing 100-120 mcgs daily with 6 iu's HGH daily. I am head to toe veins and I look like a cartoon character when I pump up in the gym. Also pro's never come off the juice which I am sure most of you allready know. Craig Titus used to work out with me and at that time he was on year 5, one big cycle and that was 13 years ago. My advice is not for everyone, expecially newbies to the anabolic game so always go slow, everybody responds diferently, my advice here is targeted to the advanced bodybuilders who are familier with long cycles. Thanks!

That's great info. I'm thinking about splitting up 60mcgs and doing pre and post WO tomorrow and until the end.

[kaorialfred]

intresting, I am thinking of trying this way of injecting tonight.


anymore opinins on cuttining and IGF?

Do you have to use HGH during IGF for the benefits, especially if you are wanting to cut not bulk?
Pro-Man, Pin, anyone?

[omega labs]

Thanks pro for posting up some new info here. Maybe some foks will testntune with this. I'm sure they will find it will make a difference.

Omega

Nice to meet you as well. I am familier with MR"s products and I hear they work well. I use 85% pure IGF-1 in lyophilized form and reconstitute it myself with .6% acetic acid solution. Very fresh and very potent this way. Unlike BA, Acetic acid will not degrade the IGF-1. Reading your IGF protocol is the exact way I started using IGF the first couple of times I did it. The insert to Igtropin says to do a shot am and a shot pm nothing more. My proccesses changed the day I did my first shot of IGF with a carb drink and trained arms, my life has changed since that day. I read that Omega did that in one of his post so thats where I got the idea. I try to do 3 shots a day, but some days I get busy and it gets to be too late for my last shot. I do 40-50mcgs before, 40-50mcgs after and smaller shot later in the day to go with my mid day HGH shot. I do 6iu's HGH everyday in divided doses year around. I urge you to try the IGF before you workout sometimes with a carb shake and 50 mcgs of Oral turnibol as well. Life will be wonderful.

Here is a post I pulled from Offshore a few minutes ago, I couldnt find his main post but this is Omega's take on IGF dosing. Be sure to give me ashout on cyber sometime, would love to direct you to some really pure IGF.

(Omega)
Brick ... I have a post up on here on how and when to do your igf... Its not about timing really its more about keeping your igf levels stable, and not spiking them up and down... as for some foks, it doesn't bother them to take some igf before bed time... I dont, and will not do that. Thats like taking some slin before bed... You just dont do it... Thats what gh is for... take the gh before bed time, and drink you a 40 gram protien shake, with NO CARDS In it, and sleep like a baby!! Being that igf-1 will last you aprox. anywhere from 4-6 hrs after injection. you want to measure by that... Im still studing the small dosages of igf at a time.. to see what kind of life it presents... but I would not go under 30mcgs at one time... Im 241, and I do 80mcgs starting off and bump up to 100 mcgs a day..and thats doing 30 mcgs am, and 30mcgs little after noon, and 40mcgs prior to working out in the evening.... and I get great results, but thats with my knowing how, and learning the tricks and trades of using igf and other things with it, NOT AAS wise either! Vitiamins and supplements is what Im speaking of... Hope this helps, and thanks Sphinks for your posting while I've been out.


Peace out,
Omega

[Pinnacle]

Well I for one am going to try this!!!!!!

If you read on this board,the standard is running it PWO on training days only.If I followed that protocol I would have pissed thousands away.Like I said in a post above,I'm not a sheep,and just because what's protocol on this board amongst the "click",definitely doesn't mean it's correct by any means.
I'm sure posting this up in the future will put a few panties in a bunch around here.

~Pinnacle~

[pro-man]

Thanks pro for posting up some new info here. Maybe some foks will testntune with this. I'm sure they will find it will make a difference.

Omega

Hey Omega, I was looking for your post on injection timing and could only find this post. I think between this post and the protocol I mentioned which is very close to yours, will indeed make a difference.

[pro-man]

Well I for one am going to try this!!!!!!

If you read on this board,the standard is running it PWO on training days only.If I followed that protocol I would have pissed thousands away.Like I said in a post above,I'm not a sheep,and just because what's protocol on this board amongst the "click",definitely doesn't mean it's correct by any means.
I'm sure posting this up in the future will put a few panties in a bunch around here.

~Pinnacle~

Nothing better that putting a few panties in a wad!

[Pinnacle]

Nothing better that putting a few panties in a wad!

That's true!!LOL...

Hey pro man,what board do you hang on the most?I'd like to discuss some pre contest cycling with you.Of course if you don't mind.

THX

~Pinnacle~

[omega labs]

Hey Omega, I was looking for your post on injection timing and could only find this post. I think between this post and the protocol I mentioned which is very close to yours, will indeed make a difference.

Yes Indeed it will!! When you get time holla at me threw pm. I have a new board I think you may be interested in joining, I didnt see you there.

Holla
Omega

[pro-man]

I will throw one at you at offshore, I do not have enough post here to send a pm?

[kaorialfred]

okay what is offshore?

[Pinnacle]

okay what is offshore?

An anabolic board........


~Pinnacle~