IGF question for Jhonny B and Pinn

[THE TURK]

I know we have had several of these Igf questions answered over and over again, but I am looking for your personal experiences as far as dosing and injection times

I am currently on my 9th igf cycle, I unlike many others started my 1st at 80mcg daily split in 2 doses of 40mcg

I have ran all the others at 100 mcg also split in 2 doses

Have either of you run doses at 100mcg daily in 1 dose and if so were the results more or less pronouced???

in my personal experience IGF is very usefull for changes in body composition I have seen little muscle gains on each cycle.

I have used IGF alone at 100mcg daily and noticed a 2lbs increase over a 30day period



thanks guys

[SPIKE]

Since the question is meant for Johnny and Pinn I'll sit back and relax..........

[powerliftmike]

Since the question is meant for Johnny and Pinn I'll sit back and relax..........

Haha, I hear ya. I will add that its been my experience that LR3 IGF-I adds a very small (unoticeable) gain in mass. It however is quite good a reducing bodyfat levels, and may produce a drop in bodyweight from such.

I hear there is synergy with AASs, but so far I have only run LR3 IGF-I on its own. Personally, I think it is a poor buy.

[goose]

Since the question is meant for Johnny and Pinn I'll sit back and relax..........

But your a clever guy,you could answer this.Lets wait for the devil,it`s not fair he get`s all the fun.


goose4.........

[SPIKE]

But your a clever guy,you could answer this.Lets wait for the devil,it`s not fair he get`s all the fun.


goose4.........

Well oooooooooooooook..................


I have ran IGF-1LR3 several times now. I have taken a few different approaches on how to incorporate it in my regimen. Ive ran 100mcgs twice and currently in my third 100mcg run. The first 2 times I split the dose up between AM and PWO. Results were good as far as overall appearance but was not impressive when it came to LBM or strength. Scale weight is of no importance to me but I didnt budge on that either.

Now I'm trying something different. I'm running the full 100mcg Preworkout. Results seem identical but do have to say that the pumps in the gym are outrageous. I've tried taking it 1 hour and 2 hours prior to the gym and in my case 1 hour before was much better. An ultra fuel, my LR3, and I"m ready for the weights.

Next run will be 120mcg split up over 3x throughout the day. I'm going to try that to follow the so called 6 hour half-life of the drug. AM, PWO, then once more in the late evening.

With my experience using LR3 I have to say that its not completely worth the money. It aids in a little BF% decrease and I"m sure it supports LBM. But both of those can easily be achieved naturally. I'd rather save my money and put it towards some GH. I know I know I"m 25 but GH has really worked wonders for me.


AAS/GH/Slin-------------I'll keep it old school but that's where I've gotten the absolute best results ever..........

[powerliftmike]

AAS/GH/Slin-------------I'll keep it old school but that's where I've gotten the absolute best results ever..........

I couldnt agree more. Id have to add clen to that list tho as it helps my asthma and cuts fat.

[goose]

Haha, I hear ya. I will add that its been my experience that LR3 IGF-I adds a very small (unoticeable) gain in mass. It however is quite good a reducing bodyfat levels, and may produce a drop in bodyweight from such.

I hear there is synergy with AASs, but so far I have only run LR3 IGF-I on its own. Personally, I think it is a poor buy.

Mike good point ` I think it is a poor buy` Is IGF worth the money?
I`m on 160 ED for a 45 day cycle.Will I gain muscle mass,we will see.A very expensive product.

goose4......

[powerliftmike]

Mike good point ` I think it is a poor buy` Is IGF worth the money?
I`m on 160 ED for a 45 day cycle.Will I gain muscle mass,we will see.A very expensive product.

goose4......

That is pretty high dose. Let me know how everything goes!

[Pinnacle]

Mike good point ` I think it is a poor buy` Is IGF worth the money?
I`m on 160 ED for a 45 day cycle.Will I gain muscle mass,we will see.A very expensive product.

goose4......

I'm on day 15 of 200 mcgs(as you know).I've monitored my BF every 3 days.Zero muscle mass has been added thus far.I've had a reduction in body fat on a non restricted diet.That's it. ...is it worth the price?IMO..NO.
And before the "Are you eating enough protein" brigade comes out.Yes I am.Is 500g every day enough for you protein preachers?

Now to answer TURKs question about shooting 100 mcgs at one time.Yes I have.I've shot 120 mcgs at one time as well.No difference from shooting 80 mcgs.
I also found out splitting the dose throughout the day is a terrible choice(for me anyway).You lean out much more,but just don't have that "full" look about you.
I'm running 100 mcgs 2 hrs before training,and 100 mcgs PWO.I've have that full look constantly now.More so for up to 6 hrs after training.My physique is taking on a nice look.But quite honestly it's nothing I couldn't accomplish with some anabolics and a strict diet.
I'll use IGF again(pre contest).But I won't go over 80 mcgs.I see no need to.You are just pissing money away.I'm seeing virtually no difference at 200 mcgs from that of 100 mcgs.

Ok you hyperplasia guru's.Come on out and attack me.I have some e mails from the bio-tech ppl at gropep I'm holding as my weapon


~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

Oh yeah...could someone direct me to a study that suggests LR3 IGF-1 has a half life of 6-8 hrs?GroPep couldn't answer this.And they hold the patent on LR3 IGF-1.

~Pinnacle~

[oldman]

I'm sorry if I missed this answer already but lets say I am going to do 80mcg ed during my PCT time, when is the best time to do it? I use 2IU's of GH first thing in the AM before I head to the gym for my cardio so I have 2 hour wait before I eat.

Would I do this later in the day, lets say after my evening workout and PWO1 meal?

Oldman

[goose]

It`s just interesting that all the profiles and peoples experience on IGF claim to add a couple of LBM,I am aware many factors come into play,great post pinn.

goose4.......

[Pinnacle]

It`s just interesting that all the profiles and peoples experience on IGF claim to add a couple of LBM

goose4.......

Claim being a key word here.I haven't read of many people claiming weight gain on IGF,except for those that sell it,or have ties to ppl who do.Those ppl are the only ones I see making outrageous claims in regards to IGF.All others,like Jay for example,say they see a reduction in BF but no increase in muscle mass,nor strength.I have many friends in my gym who have ran IGF.None of them feel they put on any muscle mass either.But they are common users, like myself, who aren't out pushing a product for financial gains.So I value opinions/observations like that.They are frank,honest,and candid most likely cause they aren't sleeping with someone.

~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

Well, it's a research chem that we took upon ourselves to try out. With no human studies and only feedback from other users, it's difficult to tell what exactly is going to happen. After reading everyones opinions it seems quite unanimous. That's why these boards are of such great importance. It allows us to view results of people all around the world. What is better then that!?!!?!?!

If and when I use LR3 again it will either be pre-contest of PCT only. With no ability to give me strength, size or stamina I dont see much use for it. I do have to say that It worked very well in PCT. Really helped me maintain most of my gains. As for the reduction in BF%, that can easily be accomplished naturally and much cheaper................



R-IL-15 anyone?

[Kale]

Well if nothing else this thread has convinced me not to waste my money on IGF, thanks guys

[Brent_G]

I noticed no strength gains as well... And i actually lost a few lbs. Im sure it was just bf...

after i got off of it i felt like i went back to where i started from. i was not impressed with it as i thought it would be. Especially after reading everyones experiences. But if you read everyones experiences, the log always seems to stop when they are done taking it. no one wants to admit that its not that great of a product.

One cycle of igf is half a price for a nice solid aas cycle.

Spend it on that imo.

[Pinnacle]

after i got off of it i felt like i went back to where i started from.

Wonderful observation!!It takes me about a week,then the BF starts to come back,and the "full" look goes right out the window as well.My friends made this observation also .Pretty much all of them thought it was an over priced,over hyped product with meager results.


~Pinnacle~

[reveremuscle]

IGF works but I think all the posts of people dropping 4% bf and gaing 5-6 lbs of muscle in 1 4 week cycle over-hyped the product. It DOES work, but it is WAY overpriced for the results that are achieved. that being said I just bought 3mg.

[Brent_G]

Wonderful observation!!It takes me about a week,then the BF starts to come back,and the "full" look goes right out the window as well.My friends made this observation also .Pretty much all of them thought it was an over priced,over hyped product with meager results.


~Pinnacle~

yeah thats exactly about how long it took for me as well. one week.

pretty discouraging..

[AnabolicAndre]

I think its the appe****g nature of this drug that makes everyone want to try it. I will incorporate it in my next cycle, even though this thread is clearly leading me not to try it. But it is still appe****g im sure once im done with it i will come to the same conclusions. Thank you though for your thoughts and experiences with IGF.

[RedBaron]

I think this thread has pretty much borne out what I have tried to tell any and all people that are willing to listen. The road to successful bodybuilding is -

1.) Eat TONS of protein and lift heavy - when gains come to a halt several years down the road, then AFTER this
2.) Add some simple AAS cycles to your regimine - when this fails you THEN
3.) Increase the complexity, doses of those cycles AFTER ALL THIS
4.) When all sane AAS cycles cease to produce decent results - THEN is the time to begin and consider all of the peptides.

It is certainly true enough that a 4 week run of LR3 isn't going to pack on massive amounts of weight. It seems to be most useful for cutting and for helping to keep gains through PCT. If you take your road to success it in the order listed above, you will appreciate its addition to your arsenal.

If on the other hand you use it way to soon, then most certainly you will end up being disappointed. It is going to give you a couple of pounds of muscle down the road, and will lean you out. If you are a novice, it isn't going to do great wonders. AAS's for that matter aren't going to do great wonders at that stage either.

Most folks won't listen ... and really don't want to hear, but there truly is no magic bullet to shortcut a lot of hard work and years of eating right and lifting hard. I see kids younger and younger jumping into impressive doses of AAS's, but many of them aren't really much bigger than my eight year old son (who is already 5 ft. and 120 pounds)! They are looking for a shortcut to the hard work required ... but it isn't there. There will never be a magic pill or shortcut that will take the place of hard workouts, abundant protein, and proper rest.

It is the same thing with LR3. I happen to like it, and use it with relative frequency. Has it piled on massive amounts of muscle .... NO. Then again, relatively major AAS cycles don't anymore either. It has added the small, fine details of a polished physique that most people are after. If I would have used it years ago, I no doubt would have deemed it a dud. At this point in my life, I like it, though I am not under any delusions of what it is going to offer me. If I were looking for 10 pounds of lean in 4 weeks with it, then certainly it is a flop.

As to some of the more confrontational points made in this thread, I have no idea who and why someone would claim a 6 hour half-life for LR3. I know Gropep doesn't know, and certainly we have no solid data on humans at this point (as it has been vehemently denied that it is ever to be used in anything other than a petri dish). You aren't going to find studies on this because of this for a long time to come. I personally hadn't heard 6 hours suggested until this thread. I have read from various medical sites a wide array of times ... some as high as 18-24 hours, but all of this is complete speculation with respect to what it does in the human body. Choosing to use LR3 at this point in time is choosing to treat yourself as a guinea pig. There are no hard and fast studies and data, nor will there be for years to come.

With respect to hyperplasia, that is an undeniable by-product of IGF ... if LR3 has any affinity to attaching to IGF receptors, then hyperplasia is going to take place. Are these new cells so significant in number that you can measure it by the day? .... very doubtful. Is it significant enough to warrant use? ... depends on your situation. The thing is within the realm of talking about satellite cells, maturation of same, etc. we have to measure success down the road ... not today. It does begin at the microscopic level. The new cells created by your LR3 today may pay dividends down the road a ways ... maybe even with your next AAS cycle. The problem we have at this point is coming up with a definitive set of criteria to suggest success or failure as a substance ... and we aren't going to be able to look to the medical community for substantiation in humans with this peptide yet. You have to understand something about the medical community in general ... we have liabilities for anything said ... and millions of sue happy attorneys just ready and willing to part doctors, pharmaceutical companies, chemical suppliers, and the like from loads of cash in the form of class action suits. The current environment is not conducive to a great sharing of information and ideas without it first being completely scrutinized for ANY possible legal ramification or other recourse. Gropep, just like every other company like them in the world plays it just that way.

With respect to running it 4-5 weeks on / 4-5 weeks off, at least to my knowledge that is just a conservative approach that will yield good result. Theoretically, there will be a point where you will saturate your IGF receptors to the point that a break would be in order. What is that point? Anyone that suggests they know for sure is lying to you. I have personally ran LR3 for 7 weeks on a couple of occasions with decent results. That being said, I run it in 5 week on/5 week off cycles. This works for me, and if it ain't broke, I don't really have any burning desire to fix it. Do I have a pubmed study to direct me on my 5 week cycle? Nope! Am I likely to have one before I hang up my bodybuilding? Nope! What I do have is personal experimentation over a couple of years telling me that 5on/5off works for me, and that up to 7 weeks seems to yield acceptable results ... that is what I can share to the community. Will the same work for you? Don't know ... you'll have to try it for yourself.

My suggestion to anyone would be if you are at a point of development where LR3 is warranted ... give it a try with the expectation that you may see a couple of pounds and lean out some. If that is not what you are looking for, then by all means don't run it. If you are running respectible doses (60-120mcgs/day) over the course of a month or so without ANY changes of note, then don't waste your money anymore.

[powerliftmike]

I have heard some of this site claim that LR3 IGF-I speeds up recovery of the HPT axis. How would this be possible?

[AnabolicAndre]

Well said Red Baron.

Mike I too would like to know how it could trigger LH and affect HPTA.

[jerseyboy]

I think the most appe****g thing about IGF and the reason why it has done so well in sales is because as of now it's legal and easy to obtain. After 3 runs at 60, 80 and 100 mcg's I am unimpressed. I will stick to the AAS/slin/GH stack that has been working for me and save the rest of the money to buy food and protein. One thing I don't understand is how people can claim a 2 pound increase in body weight over 30 days. I can lose 3 pounds in the bathroom and gain back 5 eating a couple meals. I just don't see how it's possible to attribute a 2 pound gain to one thing.

[SPIKE]

I just don't see how it's possible to attribute a 2 pound gain to one thing.

If it's claimed to be soley from LR3 I think its bull$hit. Now when I was running my cycle I was incorporating it and gained some LBM. At the time I didnt know what exactly was causing it. Obviously now that I've been running it alone I see that it played a very minute if not any role at all in an increase in LBM...........

[goose]

If it's claimed to be soley from LR3 I think its bull$hit. Now when I was running my cycle I was incorporating it and gained some LBM. At the time I didnt know what exactly was causing it. Obviously now that I've been running it alone I see that it played a very minute if not any role at all in an increase in LBM...........

Good point jay,the other smoke screen you have to deal with is that most people run it in PCT,this is very deceiving,you never know exactly how much you will loose in PCT,but people are convinced that it adds a couple of pounds LBM in PCT,therefore, this has contributed to the Speculation it adds LBM.
This is why I am running a high dose without AAS and not in PCT,plus I have dropped my HGH to get pure and conclusive results.Like pinn,I`m being analyzed by my friend`s nutrienest every 7 days.
Where is johnnyb when you need him??

goose4.......

[supersteve]

I have heard some of this site claim that LR3 IGF-I speeds up recovery of the HPT axis. How would this be possible?

Igf-1 stimualtes LH. It's basically what initiates the process of puberty.

[SPIKE]

Igf-1 stimualtes LH.

This is true Steve but I dont know if it necessarily applies to LR3 as well.

[Pinnacle]

Has anyone had a vial of LR3 IGF-1 tested to see exactly what we are all using?
Gropep holds the patent/trademark on LR3 IGF-1 and carefully monitors who gets what and where it goes.They couldn't possibly make enough LR3 IGF-1 to supply the needs for websites selling LR3 IGF-1.Nor do they sell to these websites.
It's quite obvious that we AREN'T using Gropep product.

So the question is :

What exactly is the powder in those little vials?I'll take an educated guess and say chinese labs are copying it.But how close are they to copying gropeps LR3?Is it safe?Gropep claims it's not safe at all for humans to use LR3 IGF-1.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

[powerliftmike]

Igf-1 stimualtes LH. It's basically what initiates the process of puberty.

Ok. I guess igf-I could stimulate the hypothalamus and pituitary, but as Jayhova16 points out this may not be true of igf analoges, specifically lr3..

[powerliftmike]

Has anyone had a vial of LR3 IGF-1 tested to see exactly what we are all using?
Gropep holds the patent/trademark on LR3 IGF-1 and carefully monitors who gets what and where it goes.They couldn't possibly make enough LR3 IGF-1 to supply the needs for websites selling LR3 IGF-1.Nor do they sell to these websites.
It's quite obvious that we AREN'T using Gropep product.

So the question is :

What exactly is the powder in those little vials?I'll take an educated guess and say chinese labs are copying it.But how close are they to copying gropeps LR3?Is it safe?Gropep claims it's not safe at all for humans to use LR3 IGF-1.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

Good point. I too wondered what might be in those bottles, since gropep seemed to make it quite clear it wasn't igf-lr3, at least not produced in the US. Kinda scary to not know what you are taking...

[goose]

Pinn-

China has just passed the UK as the fourth largest economy,this country specializes in plagiarism in every sector.You can buy copied DVDs from American films five minutes from your embassy in China.Developing original Biotech is not there speciality,however,mimicking medication at a fraction of the cost is whats happening.So China is one option,very high chance.

Most of the weapons used by Iraqi insurgents are American made.How did it get in them hands.We have a slim chance it is a Gropep product,we have very corrupt people in all walks of life.

goose4......


goose4..........

[RedBaron]

What exactly is the powder in those little vials?I'll take an educated guess and say chinese labs are copying it.

I think you are pretty much spot on with that guess. Any Asian facility capable of manufacturing HGH would be able to propagate LR3 IGF-1. Gropep's take on that would be that it would be impossible as they are the patent holders. The truth is that the Chinese and others are the masters of copying ... and they really don't give a rip about the patent for the most part.

It would be really great to get some of the major suppliers of LR3's wares tested. The problem is finding reliable testing facilities that are capable and willing to do so.

About the only thing we have to go on is comparison of sides and effects. I have used several milligrams of LR3 directly from Gropep. The action of it has been very similar to some of the other LR3 floating around. Does it mean that it is the real deal? Not really, but I wouldn't have a guess as to what they would be substituting (insulin maybe? would explain the pumps though that wouldn't explain leaning out).

We are really at a disadvantage with the absence to easily test the legitimacy of what we are taking. As mentioned what further complicates the issue is Gropep's proposition that LR3 is not safe for human use. Are they issuing a CYA statement, or is there some underlying issues that should be considered? There is really no concrete way to tell. As I mentioned above, Gropep CAN'T legitimize human use of their product. Doing so would open them up to a host of woes they really don't want to entertain. So they HAVE to denounce LR3 for human use ... until either the FDA and others legitimize it, or it falls away into oblivion.

Many questions and few concrete answers ... but then again that pretty much defines our sport. We have very little solid support for things we do in this sport. This is just another painful reminder of that.

[IBdmfkr]

I won't be taking IGF again, I have taken a 80mcg PWO cycle and seen little effects. Not to mention the points Pinnacle brought up. I'll let you guys guinipig it.

[powerliftmike]

I think you are pretty much spot on with that guess. Any Asian facility capable of manufacturing HGH would be able to propagate LR3 IGF-1. Gropep's take on that would be that it would be impossible as they are the patent holders. The truth is that the Chinese and others are the masters of copying ... and they really don't give a rip about the patent for the most part.

It would be really great to get some of the major suppliers of LR3's wares tested. The problem is finding reliable testing facilities that are capable and willing to do so.

About the only thing we have to go on is comparison of sides and effects. I have used several milligrams of LR3 directly from Gropep. The action of it has been very similar to some of the other LR3 floating around. Does it mean that it is the real deal? Not really, but I wouldn't have a guess as to what they would be substituting (insulin maybe? would explain the pumps though that wouldn't explain leaning out).

We are really at a disadvantage with the absence to easily test the legitimacy of what we are taking. As mentioned what further complicates the issue is Gropep's proposition that LR3 is not safe for human use. Are they issuing a CYA statement, or is there some underlying issues that should be considered? There is really no concrete way to tell. As I mentioned above, Gropep CAN'T legitimize human use of their product. Doing so would open them up to a host of woes they really don't want to entertain. So they HAVE to denounce LR3 for human use ... until either the FDA and others legitimize it, or it falls away into oblivion.

Many questions and few concrete answers ... but then again that pretty much defines our sport. We have very little solid support for things we do in this sport. This is just another painful reminder of that.

Good post, I agree. Gropep can never come out and state a human use for it, even if it is perfectly ok to use in humans. And would also agree about those chinx being master copiers, that is microsofts biggest problem--trying to stop bootleg versions of winxp in china.

[AnabolicAndre]

Red Baron are there any distinguishable differences between GRO PEP'S and say the version MR carries?

[AnabolicAndre]

R-IL-15 anyone?

dude are you talking about interleukin-15? With the R in front of it im assuming it refers to recombinant... I thought it was used to treat Leukemia patients, Im kind of scared to see how a BodyBuilder could incorperate it into a drug regimine. But please enlighten us...

[fishorcutbait]

helps my asthma

DOES IT REALLY HELP?! I have EIA, and am going to be trying Clen soon... will I be able to go running without FREAKING DYING?!!

[fred9]

Has anyone had a vial of LR3 IGF-1 tested to see exactly what we are all using?
Gropep holds the patent/trademark on LR3 IGF-1 and carefully monitors who gets what and where it goes.They couldn't possibly make enough LR3 IGF-1 to supply the needs for websites selling LR3 IGF-1.Nor do they sell to these websites.
It's quite obvious that we AREN'T using Gropep product.

So the question is :

What exactly is the powder in those little vials?I'll take an educated guess and say chinese labs are copying it.But how close are they to copying gropeps LR3?Is it safe?Gropep claims it's not safe at all for humans to use LR3 IGF-1.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

Some sources overhere selled igf1-lr3 (named nutral), it was tested by someone and there wasnt igf in it but rat-insulin . u can check the test overhere:
http://www.bodyofscience.com/dynamic...df694ea5f9149e

Everyone who used it were very excited, great pumps, fat-loss and strength/mass increase. But this was just a placebo-effect, they invested quiete a lot of money in the igf and then u want to see some results...
greetz

[powerliftmike]

DOES IT REALLY HELP?! I have EIA, and am going to be trying Clen soon... will I be able to go running without FREAKING DYING?!!

Beta-2 receptor agonists/antagonist drugs induce brohncodilation. Contries where clen is approved for legit medical use in humans, this is what its perscribed for (asthma patients).