Long term Insulin use?

**big4nuthin** · 02-12-2006, 10:15 PM

I was wondering if anyone had any experience or insight when it comes to long term insulin (hum****-r in this case) use. I was thinking about running it 3x a week PWO only @12-14ius. It seems like a very low risk scenario for type 2 diabetes, but then again what do i know

**Gear** · 02-13-2006, 03:33 AM

I've used slin 4 ON/OFF for about 6 months, never more than 4 weeks in a row though. I am sure many use slin straight for many months with no breaks but the 4 ON/OFF theory has been really beneficial for me so far so I choose to stick with running it that way. I sometime wonder if running it for longer would make any difference. I only have breaks because I feel no matter what drugs you use, you should always give you body a break from it for a while.

-Gear

-Gear

***SPIKE*** · 02-13-2006, 10:40 AM

Describe your idea of long term use for us Big4nuthin.

This will be a very controversial topic. Some will say 4 on and 4 off as Gear just stated. I'm know there are others that will chime in stating that there is no documentation on dependency running it for months and months with no time off.

I for one have never seen any documentation as well causing dependency. That doesnt mean that I'll jump head first into it. I guess its all based on what you're looking to get out of all of this. I'm comfortable with where I am as my body goes. In my case 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off is what works for me and my goals. Others are looking to gain 50lbs. of LBM and will do anything to get there. In that case they may take a different route then the one I am on.

Either way lets all be safe and monitor ourselves keeping both goals and health in perspective. Health should always be number one, it seems like most only realize that when it's actually effected. Then they're singing a different tune..........

**IBdmfkr** · 02-13-2006, 10:56 AM

So with 4on4off would you be using slin ED either PWO or AM on off days? I do it PWO only EOD so I guess I never have to come off lol..

**rodge** · 02-13-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

Either way lets all be safe and monitor ourselves keeping both goals and health in perspective. Health should always be number one, it seems like most only realize that when it's actually effected. Then they're singing a different tune..........

very wise words and i totaly agree.

-rodge

**Gear** · 02-13-2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by IBdmfkr

So with 4on4off would you be using slin ED either PWO or AM on off days? I do it PWO only EOD so I guess I never have to come off lol..

Wether you are running slin 4 ON/OFF or straight with no breaks, insulin is always mostly beneficial PWO. So always have it PWO only, and if AAS isn't present at the time then a few IU in the AM on none workout days could be beneficial to stave off catabolism.

-Gear

***Narkissos*** · 02-13-2006, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by rodge nl.

very wise words and i totaly agree.

-rodge

ditto.

Also i'd like to add... I'm not comfortable with the insulin analog (humulin-R) you're proposing for long-term use.

Humalog or Novalog would be the only two i'd suggest.. Humalog with preference.

I suggest humalog because i've seen a study indicating that humalog reverses insulin resistance in type I diabetics... when applied post-prandially: as is our use.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi.../full/24/3/430

I believe that offers potential insight into the possibility of insulin resistance on the long-term

~Narkissos

**IBdmfkr** · 02-13-2006, 10:29 PM

Thx for the study Nark.

Also, thx for the insight Gear, haven't ran slin with PCT but I'll give what you suggested a try this time around.

**big4nuthin** · 02-16-2006, 05:46 AM

I train 3x a week and was thinking about using hum**** r @ 12-15 iu's PWO for longer than the 4 weeks on/off program because I dont think 4 weeks is long enough to see any considerable results @ that dosage and frequency. My last 4 week cycle I ran humalog @15 ius PWO 3 x a week and felt like it started tio work towards the end of cycle. Something else I tried as an experiment was to ingest as much EFA's along with lots of protien and ample amount of carbs as possible while in the time frame the insulin was working. I did this to see how much fat I could gain. I gained nothing noticeable as far as bodyfat and about 3 lbs overall. I have to attribute this the the lipolytic effect of gh @10 iu's EOD. Actually I cant seem to gain any weight while on GH! One month I tried drinking a 1500 cal shake full of fats before i went to bed. I lost about 1 lb after a month. GH is the shit for fat burning and does very little for muscle gain imo.

**DEVLDOG** · 02-16-2006, 06:47 AM

i HAVE USED HUMALOG FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS PWO ONLY 5X WEEK MOSTLY.I STOPPED ON FEB 1ST..BECAUSE I RAN OUT.I HAVE NO ISSUES FROM RUNNING IT THIS LONG AND I DONT PLAN ON RUNNING IT AGAIN AS I HAVENT LOST A THING SINCE STOPPING AND I REALLY NEVER FELT IT ACCOUNTED FOR MUCH ANYWAY.

**goose** · 02-16-2006, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

i HAVE USED HUMALOG FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS PWO ONLY 5X WEEK MOSTLY.I STOPPED ON FEB 1ST..BECAUSE I RAN OUT.I HAVE NO ISSUES FROM RUNNING IT THIS LONG AND I DONT PLAN ON RUNNING IT AGAIN AS I HAVENT LOST A THING SINCE STOPPING AND I REALLY NEVER FELT IT ACCOUNTED FOR MUCH ANYWAY.

Very nice post DD,that`s why your a good brother here,very HONEST and genuine plus not connected to any sponsors. I have decided not to run it and never will,have met a few big time dudes,and the feedback is just like yours,it does NOTHING for size,well over-rated,at best it`s like creatine,one guy I spoke to said creatine is far Superior.

A quote from Bryan Haycock

`Form the very onset let me say that I cannot in good conscience recommend that a body builder use insulin . This trend started a few years ago when some prominent people touted insulin as the mother of all anabolic hormones. Certainly if this were the case, type-II diabetics using huge amounts of insulin would not be bulging with fat, but instead bulging with muscles. Insulin is not anabolic in adult humans`

I want to eat and be free PWO,not a slave for nothing,just my thought.Plus I love a cat rest PWO.

goose666

**Pinnacle** · 02-16-2006, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

i HAVE USED HUMALOG FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS PWO ONLY 5X WEEK MOSTLY.I STOPPED ON FEB 1ST..BECAUSE I RAN OUT.I HAVE NO ISSUES FROM RUNNING IT THIS LONG AND I DONT PLAN ON RUNNING IT AGAIN AS I HAVENT LOST A THING SINCE STOPPING AND I REALLY NEVER FELT IT ACCOUNTED FOR MUCH ANYWAY.

Let me ask you this DD.

At any point during the 18 mos run did you ever feel your health was in jeopardy?As in becoming a type 2 diabetic?

~Pinnacle~

**Pinnacle** · 02-16-2006, 07:54 AM

Also DD,I remember asking you about slin way back,and you said it was bullshit..don't waste your time.You were sooo right my friend.

Size?...lmaooooooooooo

**goose** · 02-16-2006, 07:56 AM

Big Pinn-

Just out of Interest;approximately when did slin first hit the scene?? Do you have a year date??

goose4..

**Rolsroyce** · 02-16-2006, 11:00 AM

if you feel you are getting resistant I would just go on avandia or glucophage for a while to refresh the receptors. And Goose4, you say insulin isnt anabolic in adult humans ?????? Please post your reserch that proves this. I know for a fact that it works.

***SPIKE*** · 02-16-2006, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Also DD,I remember asking you about slin way back,and you said it was bullshit..don't waste your time.You were sooo right my friend.

How far was way back? Why would you run something for a year and a half and think it is bullshit? Especially with all of the controversy over long term health risks and dependency?

Originally Posted by goose4

A quote from Bryan Haycock

`Form the very onset let me say that I cannot in good conscience recommend that a body builder use insulin . This trend started a few years ago when some prominent people touted insulin as the mother of all anabolic hormones. Certainly if this were the case, type-II diabetics using huge amounts of insulin would not be bulging with fat, but instead bulging with muscles. Insulin is not anabolic in adult humans`

Is this your response or Haycocks Goose???

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

i HAVE USED HUMALOG FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS PWO ONLY 5X WEEK MOSTLY.I STOPPED ON FEB 1ST..BECAUSE I RAN OUT.I HAVE NO ISSUES FROM RUNNING IT THIS LONG AND I DONT PLAN ON RUNNING IT AGAIN AS I HAVENT LOST A THING SINCE STOPPING AND I REALLY NEVER FELT IT ACCOUNTED FOR MUCH ANYWAY.

So you're saying that you ran it for 18 months at 5X a week and didnt think it accounted for much? So why did you keep running it? Perhaps from the duration of use you were becoming somewhat resistent? I"m just throwing ideas out there b/c I feel completely different about Insulin.

**IBdmfkr** · 02-16-2006, 11:12 AM

I'd say unless you run slin either by itself or with GH only, it would be very hard to say if it had an effect or not. Most run it with anabolics and obviously they are much more powerful hormones so you would notice the results from these much more prominently than slin use. I like slin, but I'm not positive it has made a huge impact. Just my 2cents.

BD

***SPIKE*** · 02-16-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by IBdmfkr

I'd say unless you run slin either by itself of with GH only it would be very hard to say if it had an effect or not.

I have to say that I was introduced to slin a few years ago and was skeptical about its use. I used it by solo the first time around to get a feel for it. Didnt really notice much at 10iu PWO except for some shakes, sweat and slight increase in scale weight.

After the comfort level rose I began to combine it with most of my cycles. I did feel much more fuller and strength gains went up but can't give credit to any individual compound.

Synergy.....................A word we all use and hear all the time. Most compounds on their own can and will produce some gains but when combined with others (that especially compliment each other) will give even more gains. From my experience the Combination of AAS/GH/Slin cant be beat. I for one dont use Slin in cutting and would prefer LR3, but as far as bulking I will continue to use Slin with AAS.

Back to my initial statement. Slin on its own did "fill" me up but I DID NOT experience any miraculous gains. But at the same time I"m not looking to use it for that any way. It's shuttling capabilities have much use on thier own and even more when used.......................you got it..............Synergistically.

**IBdmfkr** · 02-16-2006, 11:26 AM

Nicely said, I agree.

**DEVLDOG** · 02-16-2006, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

How far was way back? Why would you run something for a year and a half and think it is bullshit? Especially with all of the controversy over long term health risks and dependency?

Is this your response or Haycocks Goose???

So you're saying that you ran it for 18 months at 5X a week and didnt think it accounted for much? So why did you keep running it? Perhaps from the duration of use you were becoming somewhat resistent? I"m just throwing ideas out there b/c I feel completely different about Insulin.

I said it before,I only ran it cause I had it plus Im not one to leave anything to chance..I kept waiting to see what all the hype was about and ...well,it just never happened for me.I think 18months is a fair trial.so I used what I had and will Not be getting anymore.unless...I run Gh,I think it has its place then.

PINN....I never once felt my health was in jeopordy,thats not to say i didnt have my trial and error days in the beginning,I remember one time while getting a shower an hour after training I began to shake and get very weak.I was covered in sweat while showering.I had to run out of the shower immediately,ran to the kitchen (naked,wife sitting there..she knew,she knows it all)I downed a 2liter bottle of soda,ate a box of cupcakes and anything else i could get my hands on with sugar in it and I was actually dieting at that point but i didnt care I needed what I needed.but after that I never had another problem.I just tried to squeeze a shower in before my ppwo meal.never did that again.

***SPIKE*** · 02-16-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by DEVLDOG

will Not be getting anymore.unless...I run Gh,I think it has its place then.

I do have to say DD that when I use it with GH I get much better gains. I'm even able to take more, does that mean it's doing more? Perhaps............................

When taking it w/o GH I can't get away with anything under 10g Carbs per 1iu Slin. With GH I can bang out 12iu or so and hit 70g of Dex and be fine.

I for one am going to cycle it for the first half of my 20 weeker along with GH then that's it. In my time off I wont be using it as I feel it hasnt done much for me off cycle but put on a couple of lbs. of scale weight. I repeat.......scale weight.

**Pinnacle** · 02-16-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

How far was way back? Why would you run something for a year and a half and think it is bullshit? Especially with all of the controversy over long term health risks and dependency?

.

I don't remember the exact date.It's irrelevant to this topic...I never said I ran slin for 1.5 yrs.Where did that come from?

What controversy?I believe about 10% of the BS posted in this particular forum.If you recall,while everyone else was saying don't run IGF at high doses,what did i do?
Spare me your save the world speeches.Some ppl can read between the lines with all the BS posted in this forum,and have some balls when trying to put on size.

~Pinnacle~

**IBdmfkr** · 02-16-2006, 04:39 PM

Primo anyone?

Btw, I think Jay was referring to DD's comments Pinn. Maybe I read it wrong.

***SPIKE*** · 02-16-2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by IBdmfkr

I think Jay was referring to DD's comments Pinn. Maybe I read it wrong.

You read it perfectly correct BD. I was pertaining to DD's post.

Pinn, you stated in post #13 that you remember DD stating that "way back" he said slin was bullshit." Then I went ahead and made a general statement on why would someone run Slin for 18 months if they thought it was bullshit. DD went ahead in post #20 and cleared it all up. All I was asking you was how long was long.

Spare you the save the world speeches?

All I tried to do was give my best honest opinion on what has worked for me and my views. Running certain compounds at high doses for prolonged periods of time has nothing to do with "having balls." In some cases it can be downright dangerous.

I always try to advocate a "healthier" way of administration and I get put down for it? Keep in mind that there are over 48,000 members on here. Some kid can come on here and see something said and go out an do it. Obviously they have the choice on what to do not us. All I try to do is keep the main question in mind while answering to both that person and everyone else reading.

***SPIKE*** · 02-16-2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by IBdmfkr

Primo anyone?

Now that's a real drug..............

**taiboxa** · 02-16-2006, 06:22 PM

i just wanna add... as i have already stated before
i was talking w/ a very knowledge professor who is a dietician specialized mostly w/ diabetics

after informing of my regiment and use of insulin he said it my even prove beneficial as it gives the pancrease a break from an overexhausting production of insulin when u make it work to counteract the 100+grams of dextrose ingested pwo.

now when u start using novalog multiple times a day w/ meals then u run into pancrease atrophy.

anyways back to what u all were talkin about

**Pinnacle** · 02-16-2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

You read it perfectly correct BD. I was pertaining to DD's post.

I always try to advocate a "healthier" way of administration and I get put down for it? Keep in mind that there are over 48,000 members on here. Some kid can come on here and see something said and go out an do it. Obviously they have the choice on what to do not us. All I try to do is keep the main question in mind while answering to both that person and everyone else reading.

You quoted me,and I responded.

No ones knocking anything you say.Preach on........

Opinions in this forum are becoming very biased,hence the reason you don't see discussion in this forum anymore.I dunno,maybe you haven't noticed?
Anyway,I just popped in this thread to ask DD a simple question.It was answered,now I'm out ...........

**oswaldosalcedo** · 02-16-2006, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by big4nuthin

I was wondering if anyone had any experience or insight when it comes to long term insulin (hum****-r in this case) use. I was thinking about running it 3x a week PWO only @12-14ius. It seems like a very low risk scenario for type 2 diabetes, but then again what do i know

i have used humalog for 5 months and all ok.

**IBdmfkr** · 02-17-2006, 12:52 AM

Gayhova + Pinndical

**ACAZORES** · 02-17-2006, 12:57 AM

I m not sure if slin really works...

***SPIKE*** · 02-17-2006, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by ACAZORES

I m not sure if slin really works...

Have you ran it? If so what kind did you use and was it used solo or with other compounds? Also the dose and duration. Thanks.........

Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo

i have used humalog for 5 months and all ok.

Results and dose?

**goose** · 02-17-2006, 07:22 AM

The only thing that I hear physically happen`s to you on Slin is this `fuller` look people talk about.. In general, most people are fooled by the tremendous increase in glycogen and water storage, making them feel "fuller". The natural insulinogenic effect of carbohydrates combined with a fast protein like whey isolate is sufficiently anabolic in high quantities to induce dramatic glucose and amino acid uptake in muscle tissue. I can’t say as though I blame people though, when the gains stop coming .I do agree that if your going to use slin your looking to get Synergy.I get great results from HGH without slin,HGH at a very high dose is the key for me,fcuk SLIN and IGF.The choice is yours.....

goose4..

**oswaldosalcedo** · 02-17-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jayhova

Have you ran it? If so what kind did you use and was it used solo or with other compounds? Also the dose and duration. Thanks.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
i have used humalog for 5 months and all ok.

Results and dose?

dose:bulking 14 ius first thing in the morning and 14 ius pwo results:
muscle mass little if it is not that nothing.

**Big Bapper** · 02-17-2006, 09:48 AM

Have been using slin for over 8 years on and off more on than off. I am not saying anyone should do this, as I say to people I coach. Do as I say not do as I do. Anyway I run slin for over 1.5 years PWO only with no breaks. Dieting now so cut out the slin and feel fine. No dependcy.

Respect