Organ Growth VS. Bone Growth

[abcdef81]

What exactly would cause each one to grow? I have very small bones and am short, so I would like maximum bone growth from doing a cylce. I'm thinking bout trying GH because I have heard it can help bones to grow. Would it be a waste of time running it without insulin or IGF? Also, I don't want to get the sick looking belly sticking out that you see some bodybuilders have. So, basically what I would like to see is maximum bone and muscle growth with minimal organ/belly growth. Any opinions on this?

[mwolffey]

dont rely on gh to do this...rely on gentics

[abcdef81]

well that would be nice if i could, but genetics just hasn't gotten me there...and i think i'm at the end of the road for growing. that's why i am considering giving this a try.

[Timm1704]

i dont believe this would work for you. it wont make you any taller unless you are still in puberty and have open growth plates. i think there is a very thin line with how bone growth is affected without affecting organs, and also im not even sure which is likely affected first. no advice on here will see you through, you would need a doctor to check your current hormone levels, LBM index etc, and even then, i dont think itl work

[abcdef81]

well, i don't mind my organs growing, as long as everything grows in proportion; if the rest of your body gets bigger than it would seem natural that your organs would grow too. i'm just concerned about the stomach or intestines or whatever it is growing outward and giving that horrible looking gut. Also, even if I can't grow any taller, which I am not counting on, it would still be nice for my bones to get thicker. I have really small bones...I can wrap my whole hand around my wrist. I've read in many articles that GH is suppose to help with bone density. But, from what I've been reading on here and talking to actual people who have taken it, it seems more or less the greatest effect GH has is on leaning you up and getting rid of body fat.

[fossilfuel7]

well, i don't mind my organs growing, as long as everything grows in proportion; if the rest of your body gets bigger than it would seem natural that your organs would grow too. i'm just concerned about the stomach or intestines or whatever it is growing outward and giving that horrible looking gut. Also, even if I can't grow any taller, which I am not counting on, it would still be nice for my bones to get thicker. I have really small bones...I can wrap my whole hand around my wrist. I've read in many articles that GH is suppose to help with bone density. But, from what I've been reading on here and talking to actual people who have taken it, it seems more or less the greatest effect GH has is on leaning you up and getting rid of body fat.

It may increase bone density if cycled at a high dose for a number of years(I doubt you want to try that)..... or if your prone to acr*****ly(rare).

GH will not give you what you are looking for......If it is not in your genetics than .....I don't know what to tell you.

I have heard of GH changing connective tissue composition over time but not bone structure or density.

Seek a doctor's opinion.

[Timm1704]

well, i don't mind my organs growing, as long as everything grows in proportion; if the rest of your body gets bigger than it would seem natural that your organs would grow too. i'm just concerned about the stomach or intestines or whatever it is growing outward and giving that horrible looking gut. Also, even if I can't grow any taller, which I am not counting on, it would still be nice for my bones to get thicker. I have really small bones...I can wrap my whole hand around my wrist. I've read in many articles that GH is suppose to help with bone density. But, from what I've been reading on here and talking to actual people who have taken it, it seems more or less the greatest effect GH has is on leaning you up and getting rid of body fat.

lol so you dont mind organ growth from GH use, you just dont want GH gut? organ growth is what causes the most problems from GH use. ud prefer that than abit of a belly? ur fearless man hehe

[Ufa]

well, i don't mind my organs growing, as long as everything grows in proportion; if the rest of your body gets bigger than it would seem natural that your organs would grow too. i'm just concerned about the stomach or intestines or whatever it is growing outward and giving that horrible looking gut. Also, even if I can't grow any taller, which I am not counting on, it would still be nice for my bones to get thicker. I have really small bones...I can wrap my whole hand around my wrist. I've read in many articles that GH is suppose to help with bone density. But, from what I've been reading on here and talking to actual people who have taken it, it seems more or less the greatest effect GH has is on leaning you up and getting rid of body fat.

It will increase bone density.

[abcdef81]

lol so you dont mind organ growth from GH use, you just dont want GH gut? organ growth is what causes the most problems from GH use. ud prefer that than abit of a belly? ur fearless man hehe

well what i'm getting at bro is that if GH would cause you to grow bigger, then naturally your organs would seem to grow too. I'm 5'8", and let's say miracuously it made me 6'2". well, naturally i would want all my organ sizes to be in proportion to that of a 6'2 frame; not a 5'8" frame. so, i would expect internal organ growth as well. I just don't want that disfigured looking belly that you see some people have sticking out. And I know a guy from my town who was really short...about 5'8" or so, and I can't say 100% for sure he took it, but from what everyone talks about, word is he took some growth and he shot up to like 6'4". and also jose canseco says the same thing in his book...he went from 5'11" to 6'4" after taking growth. anyway, i'm giving it a try. i'll run it for about 6 months if i don't see any negative side effects, and i'll def let y'all know if i see any of these results.

[Pinnacle]

well what i'm getting at bro is that if GH would cause you to grow bigger, then naturally your organs would seem to grow too. I'm 5'8", and let's say miracuously it made me 6'2". well, naturally i would want all my organ sizes to be in proportion to that of a 6'2 frame; not a 5'8" frame. so, i would expect internal organ growth as well. I just don't want that disfigured looking belly that you see some people have sticking out. And I know a guy from my town who was really short...about 5'8" or so, and I can't say 100% for sure he took it, but from what everyone talks about, word is he took some growth and he shot up to like 6'4". and also jose canseco says the same thing in his book...he went from 5'11" to 6'4" after taking growth. anyway, i'm giving it a try. i'll run it for about 6 months if i don't see any negative side effects, and i'll def let y'all know if i see any of these results.

Look,I've been on HGH for countless years and I can tell you first hand HGH WILL NOT CAUSE BONE GROWTH LIKE YOU WANT.Further more,ignore all the bullshit about HGH and huge organ growth.That is mearly anabolic board bullshit.Very promidant in this particular forum.

You believe Jose Conseco?

Give it a try,report back with your results.I already know what they'll be. ...NONE!!!
I'm 5'-8" and have been that since 18.I run HGH at doses as high as 18 iu's ED.Still 5'-8" and always will be.

As for those who say HGH is the sole cause of GH gut.You are very much un-informed as to what BBers do,and their doses.The primary cause of the distended belly is over eating.After the IFBB threatened the pro's and said they'd be penalized for the distended look.Notice how many came back the next year with more streamlined midsections?Think they stopped running HGH?You think GH gut is reversable?They tweaked their diets and started eating more meals(8 as opposed to 6) with less volume.That is how they streamlined their midsections.

PPl that say HGH causes the distended look are nothing more than common thread parrots that have no inside knowledge to HGH at all.This HGH forum is full of such parrots.Trust me on that!!!

Carry on thread parrots....


~Pinnacle~

[fossilfuel7]

Look,I've been on HGH for countless years and I can tell you first hand HGH WILL NOT CAUSE BONE GROWTH LIKE YOU WANT.Further more,ignore all the bullshit about HGH and huge organ growth.That is mearly anabolic board bullshit.Very promidant in this particular forum.

You believe Jose Conseco?

Give it a try,report back with your results.I already know what they'll be. ...NONE!!!
I'm 5'-8" and have been that since 18.I run HGH at doses as high as 18 iu's ED.Still 5'-8" and always will be.

As for those who say HGH is the sole cause of GH gut.You are very much un-informed as to what BBers do,and their doses.The primary cause of the distended belly is over eating.After the IFBB threatened the pro's and said they'd be penalized for the distended look.Notice how many came back the next year with more streamlined midsections?Think they stopped running HGH?You think GH gut is reversable?They tweaked their diets and started eating more meals(8 as opposed to 6) with less volume.That is how they streamlined their midsections.

PPl that say HGH causes the distended look are nothing more than common thread parrots that have no inside knowledge to HGH at all.This HGH forum is full of such parrots.Trust me on that!!!

Carry on thread parrots....


~Pinnacle~

How in the world did you tolerate 18 IU's ED???

What kind of effects did that have on you/and your connective tissue?

[Timm1704]

actually pinn, i realise that overeating is the main cause of getting a larger stomach. after the way ive been forcefeeding myself over the last few months, my stomach is definately bigger, but not really any extra fat. i was told, and found from research i did BEFORE i found this board that GH causes organ growth, which inturn gives the pregnant look.

[Pinnacle]

i was told, and found from research i did BEFORE i found this board that GH causes organ growth, which inturn gives the pregnant look.

You can't rule organ growth out totally.The heart gets enlarged over years of strenous weight lifting.Most athletes have a slightly enlarged heart.

Thing is,you have to be VERY CAREFUL in this forum.There are some(1 in particular) ppl here who post studies and mislead ppl into thinking they have ACTUAL FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE WITH HGH.When in fact they have ZERO first hand knowledge/experience.I'll listen to a guy who has been in the trenches running variuous doses of HGh for years over some supposed HGH guru that actually has ZERO experience to share.
I suggest you do your own research and more-so experiment yourself running HGH. If you listen to "these" supposed gurus you'll never get results at all.You'll just remain a tiny little fvk like they are.Maybe that's what "they" want?Misery does like company.Isn't that what they say?

~Pinnacle~

[RedBaron]

As has already been pointed out in this thread, any study you might read about HGH (or more recently huIGF-1) causing bone growth is in children with growth deficiencies. In adults, what you can conceivably expect of HGH is a small bit of increased bone density ... not size. What we are talking about is being an osteoporosis candidate vs. having really strong bones, not in the light of having a small frame vs. having a large frame. About the only way to change that is to pick different parents next time. With respect to organs, it is true that organs have growth factor receptors. It is true that certain organs change size in response to the right stimulation. It is also true that with total disregard for intelligent use of HGH, you can create an environment where undesireable bone and organ growth is a possibility (but not a definite outcome). It is also true that some of these occurs with or without anabolics or growth hormones as part of your body's adapting to the stresses and demands placed on it. I have also used growth hormone for a little over 7 years now. I still have a 34" waist .... and no "GH gut". As has already been suggested, the distended gut look is a bit more complex than merely using HGH in your cycles.

It is also true that you really have to watch taking to hearth the postings of studies and such on any forum. Just because you can find a study that makes a particular assertion, you have to look at several things ... was it on a human or an animal .... if animal, what kind of animal ... was this done on infants, children, or adults .... healthy, or with a particular defect or condition ... were there any other variables at work as a part of the study ... and the list goes on and on. I work in research, but I really question the value of having as many studies publically available as they are. You can derive some reasonable starting points to conduct experimentation from them, but too many non-scientists take them as the bible .... they certainly are NOT that! In research, all the time further studies on an original premise just don't pan out ... it has to be borne out in ACTUAL PRACTICE over many years with many thousands of people to hold much real weight.

I can write an article, and tell you that every single word is backed up by a study ... something like -

Injecting (a) 12 (b) cc's (c) directly into your anus (d) will result in 200 pounds (e) of growth (f) a week (g).
________________________________________________
(a) a guide to proper injecting techniques, 1999
(b) counting for kids, 2nd edition, 2003
(c) scientific measurement handbook, 1989
(d) suppositories, a definitive guide, page 3, 2004
(e) mixing concrete for dummies, home depot, 2005
(f) how kids grow, 2000
(g) a pictoral calendar, 2006

Okay, so now I have made my statement .... I have quoted 7 studies, and my statement can be proved absolutely .... It has been taken word for word out of studies. No one can refute me.

Now, this is a ridiculous example (intentionally so as I don't want anyone trying anything stupid ), but this is the type of stuff you see bouncing around forums all over the internet. I just chuckle and go on my way, but I do have concern for those that actually take things like that to heart. While some of what you read actually has some good points and merit ... other is just out of school techno-babble ... sorting it all out requires a good deal of attention to details (or carrying an appropriate PhD and MD behind your name), and an eye to those that on forums have been around and have likely given those ideas and variations of it a real world reality check.

The lesson, that Pinn has already touched on, is find out who is doing the talking and if it is unbiased or written with an agenda. Do they have a vested interest in the content of the article? Did they read an article in the latest muscle rag 10 minutes ago, and now they are the definitive source of all knowledge on the subject? Have they just heard the advice a thousand times and parrot it for either geniuinely trying to help? or just look good? Or .... and this is the group you want .... have they researched ideas, textbooks, scientific journals, studies, and the like to get their STARTING POINT of ideas ... then test it on themselves. If they had results, then did they test it on their 10 closest friends .... if so, then they may have something worthy to say. You can post studies all day long, and you can theorize all you want, but bottom line .... If you haven't done it on yourself and on some of your friends, it is just HEARSAY! Don't blindly take ANYTHING you read to heart, study or otherwise, without trying to get some trustworthy, real world feedback. It's not that there is anything wrong with prefacing a statement trying to help someone to the effect of "I have never done anything like this myself, but you may want to consider XXXXXXX and here are some places to read about it", or "There is a new study suggesting that XYZ may be beneficial for ABC, what about it ... anyone have any experience?". But on the other hand, to state "You absolutely need to do X, Y, Z because that is what works" while having never even seen in real life, much less done X, Y, Z that is unproductive parroting to be sure.

The real great value of forums like this are to share ideas of things that have actually worked for you. We can site interesting studies and propose theoretical benefits to substances, but that really isn't of great value, that just provides a starting point for us to do some real live human guinnea pig work on ... which may benefit or crash and burn badly. The great value is hearing from folks who have actually DONE what we are talking about and comparing notes on results. Using that resource is how you maximize your gains, minimize the pitfalls, and avoid a lot of the oops's of past generations of bodybuilders.

[abcdef81]

Look,I've been on HGH for countless years and I can tell you first hand HGH WILL NOT CAUSE BONE GROWTH LIKE YOU WANT.Further more,ignore all the bullshit about HGH and huge organ growth.That is mearly anabolic board bullshit.Very promidant in this particular forum.

You believe Jose Conseco?

Give it a try,report back with your results.I already know what they'll be. ...NONE!!!
I'm 5'-8" and have been that since 18.I run HGH at doses as high as 18 iu's ED.Still 5'-8" and always will be.

As for those who say HGH is the sole cause of GH gut.You are very much un-informed as to what BBers do,and their doses.The primary cause of the distended belly is over eating.After the IFBB threatened the pro's and said they'd be penalized for the distended look.Notice how many came back the next year with more streamlined midsections?Think they stopped running HGH?You think GH gut is reversable?They tweaked their diets and started eating more meals(8 as opposed to 6) with less volume.That is how they streamlined their midsections.

PPl that say HGH causes the distended look are nothing more than common thread parrots that have no inside knowledge to HGH at all.This HGH forum is full of such parrots.Trust me on that!!!

Carry on thread parrots....


~Pinnacle~

you know what Pinnacle, I got to thinking the same thing. B/c when u look at the amount of food these pros eat and how much calories they fill their belly up with at a meal, that is going to make it jut out. I remember looking at some pics someone posted on here...a collage of Ronnie Coleman and his supposed GH gut...but, I've seen pics of him not having the gut at all. I mean I'm pretty sure when it comes time for Oympia his stomach is really flat. he wouldn't be winning it every year if it wasn't. so yea I def think it has a lot to do with the amount of food in your stomach. heck, i see my belly looking like that sometimes when i eat a lot, and then it's gone in the morning.

[abcdef81]

You can't rule organ growth out totally.The heart gets enlarged over years of strenous weight lifting.Most athletes have a slightly enlarged heart.

Thing is,you have to be VERY CAREFUL in this forum.There are some(1 in particular) ppl here who post studies and mislead ppl into thinking they have ACTUAL FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE WITH HGH.When in fact they have ZERO first hand knowledge/experience.I'll listen to a guy who has been in the trenches running variuous doses of HGh for years over some supposed HGH guru that actually has ZERO experience to share.
I suggest you do your own research and more-so experiment yourself running HGH. If you listen to "these" supposed gurus you'll never get results at all.You'll just remain a tiny little fvk like they are.Maybe that's what "they" want?Misery does like company.Isn't that what they say?

~Pinnacle~

well, i'll let y'all know how my results are, and you can for sure trust me. i pay very close attention to everything i do so I know effects. i decided to try anavar b/c i kept hearing sooo much hype about it. i ran it by itself for a while to make sure i wouldn't see results from anything else, and i can tell you that all the supposed hype of getting you harder and stronger is BS. I haven't noticed any bit of body fat I have lost from taking it so far. i started with 20 mg ED and have uped it to 80 mg ED and haven't seen anything worthy of the money i put in on it. all these people claiming to get soo vascular and hard and strong off it i don't see how. perhaps theyre running it with two or three other things and giving credit to the wrong thing, or maybe theyre just increasing their cardio or watching their diet better.

[Timm1704]

You can't rule organ growth out totally.The heart gets enlarged over years of strenous weight lifting.Most athletes have a slightly enlarged heart.

Thing is,you have to be VERY CAREFUL in this forum.There are some(1 in particular) ppl here who post studies and mislead ppl into thinking they have ACTUAL FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE WITH HGH.When in fact they have ZERO first hand knowledge/experience.I'll listen to a guy who has been in the trenches running variuous doses of HGh for years over some supposed HGH guru that actually has ZERO experience to share.
I suggest you do your own research and more-so experiment yourself running HGH. If you listen to "these" supposed gurus you'll never get results at all.You'll just remain a tiny little fvk like they are.Maybe that's what "they" want?Misery does like company.Isn't that what they say?

~Pinnacle~

lol yeah thats a good saying, and yes anybody who trains their body hard, be it endurance athletes or strength athletes trying to add muscle, the heart will enlarge. i do intend on running HGH one day, but wont be for afew years yet. nice to see peoples HONEST experiences with it and other drugs on this board

[Pinnacle]

Great post Red Baron(as always)!You are one of very few on the 'net whose posts I enjoying reading.Comes from real-life experience,and to me, that is worth it's weight in gold.

~Pinnacle~

[Ufa]

Thanks to RedBarron and Pinnacle the exaggerated mice studies and the dwarfs, have been exposed. GH is something that takes time, additionally
I believe we are our best Doctors.

I always enjoy reading their posts.