IGF-1 and HGH receptors

[silverback300lbs]

From what I have read is that IGF-1 will work for 50 days at a shot with another 50 days off. I also read that you need to take the off time for your receptors to clean out. One of the benefits of HGH is that it converts to IGF-1. My question is if you are takeing HGH with IGF-1...Does the HGH have much additional benefits once you reach 50 days or so and your receptors become used to the outside source of IGF-1?

[RedBaron]

In theory, what will happen with long enough, high enough dose LR3 cycles is your progress for given dose will start slowing down. There are more than one theory as to why that is the case, but certainly receptor saturation is one idea.

In practice, I have ran 120mcg per day , 8 week long cycles (actually a couple hundred micrograms a day for 5 weeks during one experimental run) of LR3 to experiment with this slowdown. In my experience and a close circle of bodybuilders, I was still getting acceptable results at the 8 week mark. Those cycles were ran in conjunction with HGH and some other AAS and support supps.

As far as the HGH part of the equation, there are so many variables that it is hard to say with certainty. The first variable is how much IGF-1 are we really talking about. There will be a pretty significant difference from person to person, but for sake of discussion, lets say that we would likely see a curve of something like 2-6mcgs of IGF-1 being expressed per IU of HGH that is injected ... a pretty meager amount when compared to 100mcgs of LR3. Another facet of the discussion would be whether or not the 70% or so of the IGF-1 that comes from HGH's action on the liver really has any benefit to our bodybuilding goals. There is some articles that make a reasonable case for the IGF-1 being expressed in the tissues themselves are the ones that are doing the work for us, and not the lion's share that is coming from the liver. On and on we could go with listing a LOT of variables that we could consider ... but at best all we will accomplish is raising a bunch of questions that there are no real definitive answers for right now.

The thing I can say is this. HGH has many positive actions on the body ... some we are still discovering. Certainly, the expression of IGF-1 as a result of HGH use is one of the good things ... but certainly not the ONLY thing that HGH does for us. It shuttles nutrients to our muscles. It aids in healing. It mobilizes fat and interferes with the processes of storage of same. Added to that, it is actually pretty unlikely that a 50 day run of LR3 is going to COMPLETELY saturate our receptors ... we may slow up the gains a bit, but not completely shut them down. Also, HGH is only responsible for a small amount of actual IGF-1, and NOT the Long R-3 version that is active for much longer. All of these things considered, and added to the real world feedback from several bodybuilders using multiple peptides over the last several years, I would say that your HGH is still giving you benefit even if you are adding LR3 to the equation. I have personally ran combination cycles for the last few years. I have several high level bodybuilders that are good friends that have been right there with me on that. I have ran better than a hundred milligrams of IGF and 10's of thousands of IU's of HGH, and so have my friends. All of us have been really successful. Our experience, lab levels, progress, etc. haven't pointed to a huge problem with complete receptor saturation ... and we have experimented quite a bit with the substances in question.

All of that being said, I would say that as with everything we do, you find an approach that is productive and viable, while at the same time as body friendly as possible. What you see me suggesting and recommending after a lot of experimentation is 5 week on / 5 week off cycles of LR3. I usually use them beginning with a 6-8 month cycle of HGH. The combination of the two really gets the leaning out started quickly. Could we run longer? Probably. Could we be hitting our receptors pretty hard? Maybe ... but with as many people as I work with personally with cycles such as this, I kind of doubt it. In general, I would say that running a combination peptide cycle in the way that I have posted here and there over the years, in sane doses, is not going to completely saturate your receptors for a period of time, and I don't think you will see your gains coming to a halt either. As you can see by this rambling on .... there are actually MANY questions and theories ... but honestly not a lot of concrete answers. Anyone professing differently is bold face lying to you.

Hope some of this will assist you some in building the peptide portion of your cycle. It may take some experimentation and fiddling to dial it in for your particular situation (age, level of fitness, unique hormone profile, genetics, existing conditions, goals, etc, etc ), but I am sure you find continued HGH use beyond even a 50 day cycle of LR3 a useful addition to that cycle. Best of luck.

[silverback300lbs]

RedBaron- thanks for taking the time to give me your input. I understand what you are saying. Thank you.