Poll: Is Slin Worth It?

**ph34rsh4ck** · 03-02-2007, 09:14 PM

nope

***Narkissos*** · 03-02-2007, 09:19 PM

Depends on your goals..and reason(s) for administering it.

**Slowhand** · 03-02-2007, 11:03 PM

if you do it right

**Gear** · 03-03-2007, 12:56 AM

Like Nark said, it really depends what you want to achieve. Insulin is very good for recovery, no question about that. So if recovery is your main concern then insulin is a good choice. But if you are after size or strength, then insulin may not be your best option.

-Gear

**ph34rsh4ck** · 03-03-2007, 01:21 AM

well since we can all agree its pretty much just an aid in recovery, and is not gonna help you put on muscle mass or completely shred the way aas would, with THAT in mind, in regard to recovery is it worth it, ive seen ppl say they dont see a difference at all , or that it makes such a small difference you wouldnt notice if you were taking it or if u werent, but then again i see ppl saying that it makes a huge difference, just curious of everyones opinions, guess i shoulda stated that more clearly in the beginning of the post

**thekaydense** · 03-03-2007, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gear

Like Nark said, it really depends what you want to achieve. Insulin is very good for recovery, no question about that. So if recovery is your main concern then insulin is a good choice. But if you are after size or strength, then insulin may not be your best option.

-Gear

insulin not good for size and strength?! you sure about that?

***Narkissos*** · 03-03-2007, 02:53 AM

^^Depends on the protocol...and what it's co-administered with.

I find it excellent for strength.

Some people just run too much stuff to notice slin working.

..or they run slin at the wrong times.

e.g.

While we can argue that a combination such as this is synergistic:

dht derivative + test derivative + 19-nor derivative + thyroid factor + growth factors(s) (gh/igf) + insulin

How would we go about quantifying strength or recovery improvements?

The short answer?

We wouldn't.

Now.. compare Insulin used specifically in an environment where the organism is more 'sensitive'... e.g. PCT

Compare a pct with no slin to a PCT with slin.

PCT is generally marked with a loss of strength..and some muscle.

I find that PCT + slin = strength maintenance..and strength improvement.

-N

**slinmonster** · 03-03-2007, 04:04 AM

slin is unparalled for size and strength. the problem is the lack of understanding of those on it. 10 iu post workout aids recovery. 20 iu 3x a day 2 to 3 days a week with ample calories creates freaks. and ample is 6k cal min. i take just enough carb 2 off set hypo. have ran rlin alone 4 10 plus cycles. went from 5 foot 6 185 to 220 in 2 yrs . bf 10 % slin works

**Warrior** · 03-03-2007, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

Depends on your goals..and reason(s) for administering it.

Bingo - take insulin with a method in mind and it is worth it...

**bazerk** · 03-03-2007, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Narkissos

Depends on your goals..and reason(s) for administering it.

I would die without it...so yeah it's worth it.

**goose** · 03-03-2007, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

slin is unparalled for size and strength. the problem is the lack of understanding of those on it. 10 iu post workout aids recovery. 20 iu 3x a day 2 to 3 days a week with ample calories creates freaks. and ample is 6k cal min. i take just enough carb 2 off set hypo. have ran rlin alone 4 10 plus cycles. went from 5 foot 6 185 to 220 in 2 yrs . bf 10 % slin works

What a joke buddy,it must of been fat.You gained 35 pounds from slin only cycles

**Slowhand** · 03-03-2007, 09:21 AM

slinmonster... 20iu at a time would even scare me...especially 3x a day...

**slinmonster** · 03-03-2007, 10:26 AM

read up on gavin kane or chad nichols articles on slin. 3x a day 2 day wk is standard my friend. and goose its fear of hypo which leads to over consumption of carbs which leads to fat. thank you

***Narkissos*** · 03-03-2007, 10:36 AM

^^I've read Kane's protocols... Scary.

Yet thought provoking.

How's your insulin sensitivity to date?

**goose** · 03-03-2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

read up on gavin kane or chad nichols articles on slin. 3x a day 2 day wk is standard my friend. and goose its fear of hypo which leads to over consumption of carbs which leads to fat. thank you

This is the gavid kane article I know.

The AP Guide to Insulin use

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note (warning): I have personally used insulin for over 8 years and can control it's effects for my personal level of development. I am not a medical doctor and therefore not fully qualified to recommend insulin use for people. What follows is my experience in 8 years of use and what I have learned. If anyone has additional information that is pertinent, please add to the thread, but do not reply from heresay, only if you are qualified to add something of value to this thread.

Insulin is one of many hormones that helps the body turn the food we eat into energy. Also, insulin helps us store energy that we can use later. After we eat, insulin works by causing sugar (glucose) to go from the blood into our body's cells to make fat, sugar, and protein. When we need more energy between meals, insulin will help us use the fat, sugar, and protein that we have stored. This occurs whether we make our own insulin in the pancreas gland or take it by injection.

8 Years ago when I first made the decision to try insulin, information was limited, the internet was not full of help like it is now and I relied on correspondance from Rich Gaspari and Tim Belknap who were extremely helpful. I started my first insulin use off season, during bulking when it's use is easiest to control. I used Humulin R, regular resonse time insulin for my first cycle. It has a release time of up to 8 hours, so blood sugar monitoring is mandatory. It has an onset of about 1/2 hour, reaching its peak in 2-5 hours and tapering off by hour 8. I used 2iu post workout with 20 grams of sugar per iu, immediately following a workout, increasing 2 iu per week until I reached a maximum of 12iu. Since it will remain active in the body for up to 8 hours, morning workouts were a must. Because I was off season, I was able to take in enough carbs every three hours to keep from going hypo.

My second cycle of insulin was Humulin type L, which is a very long acting insuling; since I was bulking, I decided to try a long acting insulin to stay anabolic all day. It will remain active in the body for 16-20 hours, is active 1/2 hour after injection, reaching its peak in 3-5 hours, will re-peak at 10-12 hours and slowly taper down. You must use a glucometer for any insulin use, but especially with long term insulin. I had to consume minimum 100 grams of carbs every 3 hours during the day, I got nothing but fat off of insulin type L and do not ever recommend anyone use it. It is too hard to control.

I did many cycles of Humulin R for years, progressing from 2iu up to 20iu post workout. After many post workout only cycles of insulin, I started to experiment with insulin use on non-workout days. I again started slowly and increased dosages with monitoring by glucometer. I used only with breakfast at first and then added in an afternoon injection as well. I never went above 10iu at each meal, always checking my blood sugar every 1/2 hour. Yes your fingers will hurt like hell, but I would rather have sore fingers than live in a casket.

Finally Humalog was introduced and I first tried it in 1999. This is what bodybuilders had been waiting for, a fast acting insulin that had a quick onset, short duration and was better controlled through sugar intake. My first cycle of Humalog started with the again customary 2iu postworkout, slowly increasing to 10iu post workout. Humalog has an onset of 15-20 minutes, reaches a peak in 1 hour and will remain active up to 5 hours.

I only recommend Humalog use for anyone considering insulin. It is the easiest to control and work with. Here are my recommendations and guidelines for use:

Start with 2iu postworkout only, drinking 10 grams glucose or dextrose per unit injected. You may slowly increase the dose up to 10iu total but never exceed 10iu, even if you are experienced. You must, I repeat, must use a glucometer, don't even think of using insulin without it. Going by feel for symptoms of hypo is stupid and reckless. You want to make sure your blood sugar levels stay above 80mg/dl ideally, but never let them drop below 40.

Since humalog is active for up to 5 hours, you must make sure not to take it after evening workouts, unless you will be awake for those 5 hours. Insulin levels can crash rapidly and there are no warning signs when you are sleeping. Low levels will make you sleepy, so you just won't wake up - ever!

Your postworkout meal should consist of minimum 10 grams sugar per iu injected plus minimum 50 grams whey protein. Your follow up meal, 1 hour after injection, when it reaches its peak, should consist of easily digested proteins and carbs. No red meat; fish, chicken or turkey are more easily digested. Carbs should be high glycemic, such as potatoes, white rice or pasta.

Your final meal during the 5 hour window can be anything you desire as long as it has a minimum of 75 grams carbs. Oatmeal, red meat etc are all acceptable, and your carbs should ideally be low glycemic to sustain your stabilizing insulin levels.

Insulin should be refridgerated at all times; though it is safe to leave at room temperature for up to 30 days, I don't recommend it.

Your injections should always be sub-q, IM injections do not allow for the regular onset times and delay onset which makes controlling carbs and monitoring sugar levels harder to do.

Ideally injections should be in the lower abdominal area, sub-q. Pinch 1 inch of skin, roll in between your fingers to remove fatty deposits and inject at a 90 degree angle crossing through the skin. This will insure an optimal sub-q injection and less chance of IM or fat injections. Both will slow absorbtion time which we are trying to eliminate.

Take a glucometer reading 1/2 hour after injection to check levels. If they are below 80mg/dl than take in more carbs immediately, take another glucometer reading after the one hour mark to check full onset and reaction. Again, if below 80mg than take in a fast acting carb with your one hour meal.

Signs of hypo include, dizziness, slow slurred speech, light-headedness, sleepiness, lethargy, numbness in the outer limbs, and blurred vision. Never take insulin unsupervised, alway let someone you know that you are injecting so they can help monitor warning signs and symptoms. Remember, the glucometer is your best friend, but someone else may notice symptoms before you do and can assist in raising blood sugar levels immediately.

You may progress to taking Humalog on non-workout days, but only after breakfast, and no more than 10iu. You must work up to the dosage and again follow the above guidelines. Your meals should consist of a mix of fast and slow acting carbs, and always include protein. Milk has fast acting carbs, oatmeal is low glycemic, etc. always use the glycemic index for carbs.

These are the general rules of taking insulin safely and sanely. Again, I do not recommend the casual lifter take insulin ever, it is better left to those who compete and have reached a superior level of development. It is best used to break plateaus, such as with GH or IGF. It is not for newbies, nor for those without minimum 5 years lifting experience with steroid use .

If there is anything I forgot, please PM me or add advice to this thread, but again only by those qualified to do so. You should have at least 5 cycles insulin use to be qualified to help others. This is very serious business and I cannot stress enough, not for the casual lifter.

Article update - 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since this article was originally written, new ideas have come to light and been tested, not only by me, but also by my band of guinee pigs with awesome success.

We decided to remove the daily injection pattern and move into a more infrequent schedule to prevent insulin resistence and shutting down the bodies natural ability to continue to regenerate insulin from the pancreas.

So after talking with Milos, Chad and others I tried and found a two day schedule, max three day schedule to be optimal to induce massive hypertrophy and minimize insulin resistance. It should be coordinated and timed with the largest muscle groups trained, such as taken 2 times per week pwo after legs and then also with back.

Maximize your nutrition intake, I cannot stress enough that up to 30-40% of your daily intake of food should be during this window of opportunity. Immediately take in some glucose and whey pwo, followed up by a super clean meal of high carb, moderate protein. Have pancakes and eggs, chicken and rice, lean beef and potatoes, etc.

So the protocol is now this:
Take 10-15ius pwo only 2-3 days per week but never in successive days. There must be at least one day in between injections. Lower is better here, so start with 2 times per week, 10iu.

If you are not making the gains, then stay at 2x per week but now do morning and pwo. Same thing, 10iu injects with clean carbs, no fat. Please use Humalog. I know a lot of guys are using Humulin R and I can help you with that if that is all you can get, but log is so much easier to use.

Anyway, you can go up to 3x per day, breakfast, lunch, and dinner 2x per week and really maximize your gains from slin. It really is all in the nutrition with slin, so if you don't want to eat and commit, then don't f'in do it.

And for chad believes that insulin should only be used once a week. twice a week at the ery most. he believes that it should be done on a weds and that the shots should be administered every 6 hours. then no more for the week. wtf. where is he coming from?? I guess with this method you use it full time???

**slinmonster** · 03-03-2007, 01:29 PM

and now read the revised version. and read his current schedule. slin before every meal. try looking on bolex or pm. u cant miss it. goose i am just learning u should to. the once a day pwo shot has been obsolete . as someone in bodybuilding u should know this. stay with a protocol written yrs ago i stick with the new one. didnt post 2 start an argument just to let u know that theres a reason some people dont get results thats all. ps goose no one ever threw around 200lb dumbells on 10 iu a day.

**slinmonster** · 03-03-2007, 01:35 PM

notice it says chad says every 6hrs!! slin shot. for 2 on days wk. only pwo not effective. u want protein forced into cells around the clock and slin can do that

**NotSmall** · 03-03-2007, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

and now read the revised version. and read his current schedule. slin before every meal. try looking on bolex or pm. u cant miss it. goose i am just learning u should to. the once a day pwo shot has been obsolete . as someone in bodybuilding u should know this. stay with a protocol written yrs ago i stick with the new one. didnt post 2 start an argument just to let u know that theres a reason some people dont get results thats all. ps goose no one ever threw around 200lb dumbells on 10 iu a day.

Could you go and copy it and paste it in this thread mate? - That way its all here in this thread, thanks!

**Gear** · 03-04-2007, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by thekaydense

insulin not good for size and strength?! you sure about that?

As I said, if you want size/strength, then insulin isn't the best option. I say this because if I was to use prop for 4 weeks, or say dbol for 4 weeks, then I can tell you now you will gain more strength from prop or dbol in a 4 week cycle then you will from insulin for 4 weeks. That's why I believe insulin isn't the best option if you want size/strength gains. However, if you use insulin for a while, then the size/strength benefits will arrive. But even then, those benefits still won't arrive as fast as AAS benefits, and those benefits won't be as great either. That's what I believe anyway.

-Gear

**Gear** · 03-04-2007, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by goose4

What a joke buddy,it must of been fat.You gained 35 pounds from slin only cycles

LOL

-Gear

**slinmonster** · 03-04-2007, 01:18 PM

in 4 wks on slin i went all my major lifts up at least 50lbs yeah no strength gains. deads went to 6+ bench to 4+ and farmers walk went from walking wit 200dbls to running with 230lb dumbells. yeah no strength gains. ok gear yeah u stay in ur little world. iam busy making gains. ha u board guys r funny!! go compete for once and learn the sport. 5 foot 10 inch and 200lb loser. go eat a meal little man . now i see why no one with a decent physique posts here. ha ha.

**Gear** · 03-04-2007, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

in 4 wks on slin i went all my major lifts up at least 50lbs yeah no strength gains. deads went to 6+ bench to 4+ and farmers walk went from walking wit 200dbls to running with 230lb dumbells. yeah no strength gains. ok gear yeah u stay in ur little world. iam busy making gains. ha u board guys r funny!! go compete for once and learn the sport. 5 foot 10 inch and 200lb loser. go eat a meal little man . now i see why no one with a decent physique posts here. ha ha.

Maybe you should go back to my post and carefuly re-read what I said because you obviously have no idea how to read properly. Did I ever say that insulin is no good at all when it comes to strength gains? I said it isn't the best option as there are other drugs out there that will give you better gains when it comes to strength gains.

There is no need for attitude mate. If you don't agree to something just say so, don't state your opinion in a disrespectful manner.

-Gear

***Narkissos*** · 03-04-2007, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

in 4 wks on slin i went all my major lifts up at least 50lbs yeah no strength gains. deads went to 6+ bench to 4+ and farmers walk went from walking wit 200dbls to running with 230lb dumbells. yeah no strength gains. ok gear yeah u stay in ur little world. iam busy making gains. ha u board guys r funny!! go compete for once and learn the sport. 5 foot 10 inch and 200lb loser. go eat a meal little man . now i see why no one with a decent physique posts here. ha ha.

**sswill** · 03-05-2007, 12:44 AM

I am a type 1 diabetic and use both Humalog and Lantus insulin . I am 38 years old and am getting back into the gym after years of not going.
I am looking for any pointers for utilizing my insulin to my advantage, ie; supplements, roids, etc.
I have been diabetic for over 10 years so I fully understand injections, amount to administer per gram of carb, and the amount needed to lower sugar levels after testing.

I just started using Gaspari Super pump 250 and Size On, mainly because they contain small amounts of carbs. In 3 weeks I am seeing some nice gains.

So any advice will be welcomed..

**slinmonster** · 03-05-2007, 02:50 AM

gear. slin in my experience provides faster gains in strength than anything outside of tren . its u and goose belif that it causes fat gain that i disagree. i belive that the carb intake required is overstated by many. those who fall victim to that train of thought end up gaining fat. and them only. yet i have always gotten faster results with slin. with the exception of tren thats all.

**Gear** · 03-05-2007, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

gear. slin in my experience provides faster gains in strength than anything outside of tren.

If that's what insulin really does to you then you must be 1 from many that reacts that way. I still don't belive that such high strength increase is possible with the help of insulin, but, I will not argue your point because I have seen some people get strange results from all sorts of drugs. Everyone reacts different I suppose.

I personally would rather use other compounds if I was after strength/size. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by slinmonster

its u and goose belif that it causes fat gain that i disagree.

When it comes to insulin use and fat gain, I will not even bother to discuss this subject as it is a fact that fat storage chances are much higher when insulin is in the picture. There is a chart here on AR posted by Einstein (I think it was Einy) a few years back that explains fat storage and insulin use. I will look for the thread and if I find it I'll post it. There are also a few insulin threads in the GH forum that also explain insulin use and fat storage and how it all works etc. You can look for the thread and maybe have a read at it. I see what you are saying about fat gain when using insulin, but wether you are consuming just right amount of carbs or not, the fat gain chances are still higher when using insulin.

-Gear

***perfectbeast2001*** · 03-05-2007, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

and now read the revised version. and read his current schedule. slin before every meal. try looking on bolex or pm. u cant miss it. goose i am just learning u should to. the once a day pwo shot has been obsolete . as someone in bodybuilding u should know this. stay with a protocol written yrs ago i stick with the new one. didnt post 2 start an argument just to let u know that theres a reason some people dont get results thats all. ps goose no one ever threw around 200lb dumbells on 10 iu a day.

Maybe good for people wanting to pack on size and are not too worried about fat gain (like a powerlifter or strongman) but if you are a BBer then this may not be the best protocol. PWO shot helps with recovery (which is the main reason a BBer would use it) and gives you a window in which you can monitor carb and fat intake and keep them too a minimum. This would be virtually impossible If you were dosing with every meal. Not to mention the safety aspect. If you dose with every meal you would need to check gluc levels all day and napping would be out of the question, again not great for BBers who like to power nap.
And fix your attitude, it sucks.

**Information** · 03-05-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

in 4 wks on slin i went all my major lifts up at least 50lbs yeah no strength gains. deads went to 6+ bench to 4+ and farmers walk went from walking wit 200dbls to running with 230lb dumbells. yeah no strength gains. ok gear yeah u stay in ur little world. iam busy making gains. ha u board guys r funny!! go compete for once and learn the sport. 5 foot 10 inch and 200lb loser. go eat a meal little man . now i see why no one with a decent physique posts here. ha ha.

Address other members respectfully or your stay here will be very short!

**slinmonster** · 03-05-2007, 12:21 PM

my attitude came after 2 members attempted to ridicule my statements. so admn. go **** yourself and your fakeass board. funny ass bitches. suck a dick.

**goose** · 03-05-2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

my attitude came after 2 members attempted to ridicule my statements. so admn. go **** yourself and your fakeass board. funny ass bitches. suck a dick.

I love it when people give 0 respect for admin.

**plzr8** · 03-05-2007, 01:01 PM

^^^ yah, people like this are just a waste of time. they come here looking for help & answers, then talk trash about other members, mods, & the admin

now he'll be banned...and in a few weeks, he'll have another alias from another comp looking for help on his messed up cycle or bad reaction to slin

good luck.

***Narkissos*** · 03-05-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

my attitude came after 2 members attempted to ridicule my statements. so admn. go **** yourself and your fakeass board. funny ass bitches. suck a dick.

This is a message board.

As such..not everyone will agree with you.. as everyone has their own opinion.

You've discredited yourself with your kindergarden kid behaviour.

On a side note:

Maybe you can blame it on reduced oxygen flow to the brain due to too high a slin dose..and not enough carbs

**Jason865** · 03-05-2007, 01:13 PM

Not a chance

**goose** · 03-05-2007, 01:18 PM

NARK that was funney stuff,LOL.Insane in the membrane-no carbs,LOL....

I hope they dont ban him.This thread has been great fun...

**Information** · 03-05-2007, 01:37 PM

He's gone

**BIGGRTHAGUNSTHABETTR** · 03-05-2007, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by slinmonster

in 4 wks on slin i went all my major lifts up at least 50lbs yeah no strength gains. deads went to 6+ bench to 4+ and farmers walk went from walking wit 200dbls to running with 230lb dumbells. yeah no strength gains. ok gear yeah u stay in ur little world. iam busy making gains. ha u board guys r funny!! go compete for once and learn the sport. 5 foot 10 inch and 200lb loser. go eat a meal little man . now i see why no one with a decent physique posts here. ha ha.

Mutt!

**Gear** · 03-06-2007, 02:33 AM

What a f00l. Thanx Admin.

-Gear

**Maldorf** · 03-06-2007, 10:31 AM

I cant see using slin all day long with every meal, just too much to keep track of with blood sugar and all. To be responsibly sage youd have to be sitting at home and not doing much of anything all day long, no job etc. this being said, I think I may go to using slin at breakfast and PWO next cycle and see if this helps any. Up to now ive only done the 12 IU PWO.

**MMA** · 05-18-2007, 12:00 AM

LOL funny stuff. haven't been around in a while, it's good to see that the veteran members of AR have retained both their wisdom and their sense of humor.

"remember, it's not so much the sln that makes you fat, it's the fear of death"

most of us will tend to always overcarb a little when using sln, because the penalty for under-carbing can be so harsh. being huge doesn't mean as much if it just means your pallbearers have to carry more weight.

**MMA** · 05-18-2007, 12:07 AM

i can see classic ectomorphs getting a lot out of sln+high calories, but for everybody else, the fat gain issues limit it's usefulness. yeah, you gain some muscle, but after you're done cutting, what was the net gain for all that risk? 3 pounds?