Help - T4 Side Effects

**hit_my_max** · 06-09-2009, 03:39 PM

Guys, I've started my GH cycle a month ago, 4 IUs ED of Saizen with 100mcg of T4 (also ED).

I've had no serious sides (only the "normal" ones everyone talks about until last Friday). Friday I started feeling heart palpitations, arrhythmia, and shortness of breath.

Yesterday I stopped everything cold. However, after reading the "Adverse Reactions" section of this page: http://www.drugs.com/ppa/levothyroxi...thyroxine.html - it seems pretty obvious that the T4 is the culprit, no the GH.

Has anyone else ever felt this? I understand that T4 takes 4 days to clear my system. I still have all the issues I listed above today - and am getting worried.

Will these subside? Should I go to a hospital and get checked? The last adverse reaction on that list wasn't a pretty thought. Thanks!!

**Slide** · 06-09-2009, 03:51 PM

It was so bad you had to stop? a lot of people taper up on their T4. I have a very good tollerance for stimilants so this is not a problem that i have run into. Simply a slightly faster heartbeat is not going to cause you any harm. but if it made you feel very scared then i would cut out the T4 or at least lower the dose

**hit_my_max** · 06-09-2009, 03:59 PM

It's given me reason to stop. It is a constant feeling of chest pressure now, with also a pretty constant sense of arrhythmia.

I've stopped cold yesterday and am thinking about waiting 4 days for all T4 to clear my system (I will go back to the GH tomorrow though) before maybe resuming EOD on the same dosage.

That said, I'm starting to worry about this being a bigger issue, and these sides getting worse instead of going away.

Has this been documented by others here in the past? At what point do I just bite it and go to a hospital?

**inkslinger** · 06-09-2009, 05:07 PM

what's your heart rate? You aren't having an arrythmia, though you may be having some sort of mvp.. Mitro valve prolapse.. If you were having arrythmia you would have heart rate upwards of 200 beats a minute.. Borderline stroke.. I know cuz i had surgery for this very thing..
And it SUcKS! Are you prone to anxiety? Check your heart rate and see where you are at currently.. Them before you go to bed and when you wake. Good luck man..

**hit_my_max** · 06-09-2009, 05:16 PM

HR in the 100 bpm range, but at times it seems like it skips a beat or two and resumes faster than normal then it quiets down to my rest rate again (80-100 bpm).

Some chest pressure/pain also. Any suggestions?

**peteroy01** · 06-09-2009, 06:19 PM

when it starts to hurt take an ED drug like viagra, cialis, or levitra and a 325mg of aspirin everyday. the ED drugs cause vasodilation which drops ur BP and lowers stress on your heart and you will thin your blood and prevent any clots in your heart with the aspirin. if those dont help then you need to go to the doc. or you can call an ambulance or drive to a station and have them bring there portable 12lead ecg in and run a strip on you and if its fine then dont go to the hospital unless u feel u really need to. but again if theres any doubt in your mind go!!!! u only got 1. shortness of breath, chest pain, and a tight chest are all signs of a heart attack. so.....

**peteroy01** · 06-09-2009, 06:22 PM

o yeah, if your BP is low like 100/60 dont take the ED drugs cause you might not wake up. if its over that then go for the ED drugs

**hit_my_max** · 06-10-2009, 11:11 AM

I'm still here... took 325mg aspirin after your post (THANK YOU) and felt better. Took another one before bed time.

This AM took my GH shot (4 IU) and 300mg ALA + 325mg Aspirin.

I'll monitor my condition and see if it stabilizes using the aspirin until all of T4 is off my body.

If this keeps going for a few more days I'll go get checked, but if it goes away now that I stopped the T4 I'll know that I just can't take it...

**peteroy01** · 06-10-2009, 11:44 AM

wouldnt say you cant take it, maybe start at 50mcg ed instead of 100mcg(might want to wait a couple of days). have you noticed your heart rate decreasing at all? also while your having any of your above symptoms stay away from all stimulants! lay down and chill out and relax as much as possible to drop your pulse. hows your blood pressure?

**hit_my_max** · 06-10-2009, 11:59 AM

BP is normal - around 120/70. HR is at 80 to 100 range. Some pinching on my chest, but not nearly as intense.

Overall I am optimistic at the moment (cautiously so). I had no idea T4 could be so friggin' heavy and strong. I was only taking the average dose of 100mcg ED that everyone here says they take.

But, everyone reacts differently to this stuff anyhow, so I guess I am more susceptible to T4 sides than others...

**peteroy01** · 06-10-2009, 01:35 PM

if you start with 50mcg and work your way up to 100mcg im almost positive things would work out better. but i would advise getting some ED meds for chest pains...... if you plan on running it again.

**hit_my_max** · 06-10-2009, 03:38 PM

I have some Cialis 20mg. Would you recommend taking one ED or EOD or what? Only when chest pain happens? I haven't taken any yet, btw - only the Aspirin. Didn't want to overload the system here. Trying to debug this one compound at a time.

I feel better today, but I'm not 100% - there's still that lingering chest pain that won't go away. It gets a little worse, then it gets better, then it comes back. It's definitely WAY better than yesterday or the weekend, which gives me hope that in a few more days all T4 will be cleared out and I'll be back to normal. I sure hope this isn't my "new normal", 'cause that would SUCK and I'd have to go get checked, at which point they'll make me stop EVERYTHING, even the GH, which I really don't think is related to this at all...

Thanks for all your help bro - I really appreciate it that someone took the time to lend me a hand here. It got pretty ugly over the past 3 days...

**nonotone** · 06-10-2009, 04:16 PM

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**hit_my_max** · 06-10-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by konateh

I don't think it's the t4 causing this, if it is you are a very rare case. I've heard of patients taking several MG of t4 without experiencing any sides (reverse). Get your ass to a doctor and tell him/her about the t4 AND the GH, don't take any chances.

Maybe... but if you read the side effects of T4, they describe (some of them) EXACTLY what I am feeling - and that was AFTER I went to read, so I wasn't influenced by reading them - I had the sides and THEN went to read the sides of everything I'm taking online, and T4 is EXACTLY what I have.

That said, you may be right - I may need to just get checked and see...

**peteroy01** · 06-10-2009, 10:06 PM

try the cialis and c if it works. i willing to bet it wood(pun intended). and keep taking the aspirin. theres 4 things that are given to a chest pain patient on the ambulance and thats-morphine(you shouldnt have), 325 aspirin, O2, and nitro(vasodilator). i can almost guarantee the cialis will work. just dont take it and screw for hrs.

**nonotone** · 06-11-2009, 07:51 AM

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**Seattle Junk** · 06-11-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Slide

It was so bad you had to stop? a lot of people taper up on their T4. I have a very good tollerance for stimilants so this is not a problem that i have run into. Simply a slightly faster heartbeat is not going to cause you any harm. but if it made you feel very scared then i would cut out the T4 or at least lower the dose

T4 (+ T3) is not a stimulant, it's a hormone.

Don't give medical advice. You have no idea if a faster heart beat for this guy is not going to cause him any harm. He could have genetic heart issues that he may not even know about it.

**peteroy01** · 06-11-2009, 09:40 AM

konateh-not looking for an argument but the ED drug and aspirin isnt exactly aggressive by any means. so why not just be safe? not gonna harm him so.......

**hit_my_max** · 06-12-2009, 12:08 PM

OK guys, so I bit the bullet and went to the emergency room last night. They plugged into a monitor, ran 2 EKGs, every blood test possible, a chest x-ray, and a urine test.

I told the Dr. about the GH and the T4, and that's what drove him to run so many tests.

The good news is that they ALL came back within normal range, and the bad news, obviously, is that they all came back within normal range, since now we have NO clue what exactly is wrong with me.

The Dr. suspects the GH, but I expected him to say that. My BP was fluctuating from 144/66 to 125/56 within 2 hours - my HR was in the 70-90 range the whole 4 hours I was plugged in.

He wanted me to stay there all night, but I signed a LAMA and came home - I HATE emergency rooms.

Anyhow, I will go see a cardiologist next week and run a full stress test plus everything else I can run until I find out what happened. I never had anything like this happen, and it is very unlikely that this is just a coincidence, since I've been training HARD for 26 years, and my heart has been a Swiss clock all these years.

I suspended everything cold until I get a full diagnostic from a cardiologist. What can I say? Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield...

**nonotone** · 06-12-2009, 02:51 PM

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**tehpish** · 06-12-2009, 06:25 PM

smart man ! My heart was busting a funky beat a few months back and got it checked out. Everything was fine. Was just stress. I never backed off the GH but then again I have been on this earth for as long as you have been training. Keep us updated ! I am interested to see if it was the T4 , stuff just makes me smell like a walking armpit.

**hit_my_max** · 06-12-2009, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by konateh

Good decision of you to go to a doctor for this, it is important to find out what is causing this. What you should do now up until your appointment with the cardiologist is to get out a pen an paper and write down everything you can think of that you introduced in your life prior to the symptoms. How sure are you that your GH is legit? How sure are you that your t4 is legit. Have you been partying and doing drugs??..

If you think long and hard about these thing before you go, you will make the process go smother - it is important that you get this cleared up as quickly as possible, fluctuating blood pressure could be dangerous!

Good luck, and keep us updated - I'm curious about what this could be.

I'll do that, yes. The GH is 100% absolutely Saizen from Serono - it is the best there is, period. It is also a friggin fortune, but it is legit and the best - I get it from a very high-end pharmacy through my Dr. in Brazil.

The T4 is also from the same pharmacy - brand name levo-thyroxine. Legit for sure (not even a generic).

I don't do drugs (recreational, that is - given what I've been taking I can't really say that now, can I? :-)). I don't smoke - never have.

I do drink alcohol, but don't abuse it. I have been going out twice a week for drinks with friends. I have an active sexual life (what the f... is the reason to do all this in the first place? hot girls are my Achilles heel).

I eat healthy, tons of protein currently and low carb/sugar diet.

That is it - nothing that can cause this AFAIK. I feel a lot better today which is my 5th day off the T4. My $$ is still on that, FWIW. I'm not taking any chances, though - I will stay off the GH also until I see the cardiologist next week.

More updates once I know more fellows - huge thanks for all your support and help here...

**bjpennnn** · 06-12-2009, 11:03 PM

hope you figure out whats happening bro

**ironman229** · 07-30-2009, 01:46 AM

I am hypothyroid and have been takeing Levathroid since 2004. I started out at 125 mcg and had a fast heart beat. Now I am at 300 mcg a day. Everytime you bump up you get a rapid heart beat. The real deal about Thyroid med is you cant cut the pills and if you get a tightness or maybe a chocking feeling in your throat I would stop. Like I said, I have been on the shit since 2004 so I have alot of experiance with it. I also wouldnt go past three weeks on it without getting your thyroid checked, the thyroid glands are tricky.

**hit_my_max** · 08-31-2009, 03:25 PM

OK guys - it's been over a month and I wanted to close this thread by letting you all know that I am doing fine and to thank you all for your suggestions and support.

I had my body and heart checked in EVERY way possible. In the end, the problem was the interaction of NO-Xplode that I was taking prior to my workout and the GH+T4. I had too many stimulants in my blood - since I also was taking coffee at work.

Since then I stopped drinking coffee altogether, and stopped with the NO-Xplode as well. I'm back on 4 IUs ED of GH, 100 mcg ED of T4 and 400 mcg ED of Alpha Lipoic Acid.

All is well, my gains are VERY nice - I'm on my 4th month Saizen (GH) cycle and my body fat continues to drop while my muscles continue to grow. Slowly, but definitely noticeably.

GH is not a cycle - it's a way of life - especially for me, who's 39 years old. I'll stay on this stuff 6 months on, 6 months off as long as my doctors allow me :-)...

**peteroy01** · 08-31-2009, 08:05 PM

glad to hear you doing better and you've found the source of the chest pain. i bet you have some peace of mind now knowing.

**hit_my_max** · 09-01-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by peteroy01

glad to hear you doing better and you've found the source of the chest pain. i bet you have some peace of mind now knowing.

You bet. It's taken some time, but now I'm very happy with where things are and I have peace of mind indeed, plus I get to keep my cycle going!!

**starkiller** · 09-03-2009, 01:04 PM

Wow i was reading with suspense! it is nice to read your doing fine. I think the best thing you could have ever done was make the decision to go to the emergency room. From that point you gained the confidence to take further action; test, adjust meds etc..). somtimes it is hard to make these decisions for whatever reasons, I would have made the same choice, glad to see your happy. Stay healthy