Before I hit the Doctor's office.

**FCVtec** · 02-06-2010, 07:55 AM

Hey guys, I am going to the doctor tomorrow but for right now I am snowed in and figured I would run this issue through you guys and see what yall think. I have been monitoring my BP closely and I have been on the 150's, yesterday was 155 / 80 and it's been over 150 for a week or so. I feel something is wrong at the gym, after the first heavy set my heart goes insane and I feel like I been working out for hours but then I goes away and I can keep going. CTS is also a issue right now, I wake up during the night with no feeling in my fingers and can hardly make a fist. I know that the CTS is from the GH so I don't think I ll bring it up with the Doc. Now about the blood pressure..... I have read on other threads that GH can increase your BP and the more water you hold the higher your BP will go(I had some bloat in the past week since I went up to 5iu.) My BP has been above 145/80 for over a month and now it's hitting even higher numbers, I have all the symptoms of HBP, heart pounds sometimes, occasional chest pain and I wanna put a stop to this. I don't want to tell Doc about what I am on. Are BP meds safe with AAS and GH?? Should I try to score some BP meds from the Doctor and call it a day??

--Thanks--

**FCVtec** · 02-06-2010, 03:52 PM

I have cut the dose to half and see if it gets any better, hopefully my body will adjust to it. All the threads with interesting info on HGH and HBP are from 06 - 07. Anybody has updated info on this?? Or is this still correct info?
"Growth hormone , however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH."

This was posted in a 2006 thread in this forum.

**BJJ** · 02-06-2010, 05:41 PM

What dose are you running right now?

**FCVtec** · 02-06-2010, 05:46 PM

Was at 5iu for about a week when everything happened. I not doing any today and tomorrow I'll resume at 3iu until sides go away(hopefully they will). Hands are looking better but BP was still 154/79 2 hours ago.

**BJJ** · 02-06-2010, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by FCVtec

Was at 5iu for about a week when everything happened. I not doing any today and tomorrow I'll resume at 3iu until sides go away(hopefully they will). Hands are looking better but BP was still 154/79 2 hours ago.

Do you plan to review your diet?

**JimInAK** · 02-06-2010, 07:13 PM

Sounds like it was very smart to cut back on HGH, under the present circumstances. The severity of your CTS also supports your assumption that HGH may be at the root of the problem.

It's going to be difficult for a doctor to treat you, if you don't lay your cards on the table by being completely honest. I would try to find a doctor that I could trust... especially since your BP is high along with your other, serious indications that something isn't right... Your symptoms indicate a condition that can be life threatening.

I don't know how much HGH you are using, but I have never had CTS symptoms that were that severe.

It's not my call but I would stop taking HGH completely, until getting a handle on these very serious issues. You may be pushing yourself too hard, have lots of stress, and may be taking TOO MUCH of an otherwise good thing.

I hope you get to the bottom of this soon and would quit throwing fuel on the fire, until you get a handle on what's going on.

**FCVtec** · 02-06-2010, 10:21 PM

I can't say how much I appreciate your attention in this matter. Nice to know that there are knowledgeable people willing to help me. I will take your advice, I am stopping the GH completely until this is normalized. I really want to go to a doctor and open up with him but last time I did that I got a nasty look and the Doc told me to stop immediately when I only wanted him to monitor me. I ll try, I have stopped the GH but my bp was 160/70 or something just not long ago, I hope it improves by tomorrow, if not I will try my luck and tell him everything. It just sucks because for the first time I feel that I was where I wanted to be, 200 has been my goal since 2004 and now this crap! If I want my doc to treat me I know he will tell me to stop everything and then I will follow his orders(of course). I don't wanna screw my life over a couple pounds. If there's no change by tomorrow I am going to Doc.

You mentioned a life threatening condition.. Can you elaborate on that please, got me shitting my pants.

And Thanks so much.

Originally Posted by BJJ

Do you plan to review your diet?

I am on a bulking diet from the Diet section on this forum, I slack sometimes due to work schedule, I can improve that. Can that be affecting me this much?

**BJJ** · 02-07-2010, 05:39 AM

^^
Absolutely!
Even though in your case, moderate II grade of hypertension @ 160, I presume by reducing HGH or totally get rid of it, you may experience an overall improvement.

In any case, AVOID these aliments:

1. Piadina
2. Crackers
3. Breadstick
4. Oil Bred
5. Milk Bred
6. Wheat Bran
7. Croissant
8. Zabaglione
9. Sponge Cake
10. Tortellini
11. Ketchup Sauce
12. Paté de foie gras
13. Tabasco
14. Mayonnaise
15. Margarine
16. All type of sausages and sacked hams
17. Sheep's Milk Cheese
18. Caciocavallo
19. Roman Caciotta
20. Gooses
21. Oysters
22. Mussels
23. Lobsters
24. All type of herrings
25. All type of anchovy
26. Caviar
27. All type of alga
28. Dry tomato
29. Hare

**FCVtec** · 02-07-2010, 09:54 AM

Thanks for that BJJ. I have stopped the HGH completely for almost 48 hours and no improvement yet, BP this morning was 160/88. I am going to the Doc when my wife wakes up. Gotta question, last Doc I went to referred me to this "sport medicine" Doc <-- I think thats what he called it. Should I go to the "Sports" guy?? I got better chances with him right? Or just go to my regular doc?

-Thanks for replies --

**FCVtec** · 02-07-2010, 01:23 PM

Ok, Just came back from the doctor. Here is what happened...

I did not tell him about the Juice.. He was already acting weird when he saw I was 5'8'' am weighted me at 198 pounds. He said I was "overweight" for my height and told me I should try to drop to 175 at most. He believes I am eating 2 much and there's 2 much sodium in my diet. To be honest in the last couple weeks my diet has been crap, so he might be right. Anyways, he gave me a diuretic and told me to eat less than 6 meals a day and keep the sodium way down. He also says I have 2 much fat in my body. The Pic on the avatar is me... I dont think I can possibly have that much fat in me but.. Is it possible to look lean and have a bunch of fat??? I guess if the BP goes down in the next couple days I will resume the HGH little by little. I only have 4 more weeks of test and I really wanted to finish this up and run the GH through PCT. Of course if it happens again I will stop everything and give my body the 2 year break I have been planning after this cycle. I hope the diuretic does the job and I can finish this damn cycle. I been doing research and I 've heard lots of people that take diuretic to keep BP under control while on HGH. Any thoughts or suggestions??

--Thanks for helping me out everyone, you guys are awesome--

**BJJ** · 02-07-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by FCVtec

Ok, Just came back from the doctor. Here is what happened...

I did not tell him about the Juice.. He was already acting weird when he saw I was 5'8'' am weighted me at 198 pounds. He said I was "overweight" for my height and told me I should try to drop to 175 at most. He believes I am eating 2 much and there's 2 much sodium in my diet. To be honest in the last couple weeks my diet has been crap, so he might be right. Anyways, he gave me a diuretic and told me to eat less than 6 meals a day and keep the sodium way down. He also says I have 2 much fat in my body. The Pic on the avatar is me... I dont think I can possibly have that much fat in me but.. Is it possible to look lean and have a bunch of fat??? I guess if the BP goes down in the next couple days I will resume the HGH little by little. I only have 4 more weeks of test and I really wanted to finish this up and run the GH through PCT. Of course if it happens again I will stop everything and give my body the 2 year break I have been planning after this cycle. I hope the diuretic does the job and I can finish this damn cycle. I been doing research and I 've heard lots of people that take diuretic to keep BP under control while on HGH. Any thoughts or suggestions??

--Thanks for helping me out everyone, you guys are awesome--

In reality it is indeed!
Fats are surrounding for protection our inner organs.
In any case, your doctor did not know where to hang on since you look lean...
Good luck with your diuretic and keep us posted.

**ScotchGuard** · 02-07-2010, 04:28 PM

When I was cycling AAS along with HGH I could hear my heart pounding when I sleep. I was a little nervous there for a few weeks. Are you an anything else right now? When I was done with the dbol my blood pressure returned to normal. I've been on HGH for 13 months and my blood pressure is slightly higher than normal. I'm normally 110/65 and now I'm 125/75. I would get off of HGH until the blood pressure returns to normal. Then start slow at 2iu/ed to 3iu/ed and increase 1iu every 10 days.

**dinko** · 02-07-2010, 04:29 PM

I'm in my first HG cycle. After 4 weeks I had big water retention, high blood pressure.
I added nolvadex (one pill every night) and things are better now.
I also added some natural diuretic pills and everything is back to normal.

**FCVtec** · 02-07-2010, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard

When I was cycling AAS along with HGH I could hear my heart pounding when I sleep. I was a little nervous there for a few weeks. Are you an anything else right now? When I was done with the dbol my blood pressure returned to normal. I've been on HGH for 13 months and my blood pressure is slightly higher than normal. I'm normally 110/65 and now I'm 125/75. I would get off of HGH until the blood pressure returns to normal. Then start slow at 2iu/ed to 3iu/ed and increase 1iu every 10 days.

Yes, I am taking 900mg/week test E. Getting great results, I did kickstart this cycle with dbol for 6 weeks. I am glad someone else had this heart pounding before, I wanna say that my heart doesnt really pound but I feel it beat a bit stronger than usual when resting(Like now) and that kinda scared me like it did to you scotch. When I pick up the GH again I am gonna do pretty much what you have laid out, but no longer going to 5iu, was getting sweet gains at 4 and up'in to 5 screwed me. How is the gh working for you since you got off your cycle? You are off AAS right?

I did have BP 146/70 not long ago --> lowest in the past 2 days, maybe it's starting to lower but too early to tell.

Forgot to add that Doc strongly recommended that I ate less than my current 6 meals a day, even if low in sodium.

Dinko, I am on Nolva 10mg/ed and I hope the diuretic fixes it for me too. Hate feeling like I am not 100 percent.

**FCVtec** · 02-08-2010, 07:37 PM

UPDATE

This is my second day on the diuretics and nothing yet, my BP last night was 132/80 but today is back up on the high 150's. Does anyone know how long until this thing starts taking effect? I have still not gone back to the GH of course. I have a appointment with a sport medicine doc tomorrow in the P.M. I am going to tell him everything and hope for the best, I want to get some bloodwork done to make sure I am ok and do a follow up afer PCT and make sure my levels are up to part. I for some reason feel that there is something wrong with me, not sick or feeling shitty but I want to cover everything. I always did bloodwork with my Florida doc before and after cycles and he looked at everything(I didn t even know what to look for) but since I have moved elsewhere I have not been lucky enough to find a Doc that is willing to help... All I get is nasty looks and "Stop the Juice now". Nobody willing to respect my freaking choice and help me do it the healthiest way possible. I'll update this at a later time.

**dinko** · 02-09-2010, 04:02 AM

i see results from lasix (diuretics) after the 3rd day. the first 2 days I was thinking: am I doing something wrong?

dont give up. just wait a bit!

**FCVtec** · 02-09-2010, 02:58 PM

Went to a sports doc. I had to find one around here with no references so I went some place and thought since they are a sports medicine place they would be able to give me a stress test and all that but it didn't turn out that way. The Doc was a little bit out of his comfort zone(I dont think he ever dealt with roids). Anyways, he told me to stay on the BP med even though he doesn't like the Hydrochlorothiazide I was prescribed by the previous Doc because is not Ideal for active people but chose not to switch it. Obviously he told me to get off the Juice and come back in 5 weeks for some bloodwork so he can t check my test, fsh lh, all that good stuff.

The day I went to the first doc my weight in the morning was 197(mad bloated) and today I woke up at 189, I think is the bloat going down... I am losing weight like crazy. At this point I don't know what to do. I don't want to get off and end up at 180.. I was so damn close to the 200 I always wanted. Am I making a big deal outta this and should wait and see if the BP meds work and finish this damn cycle?

I get pissed because this Doctor pinned my BP probs on the Test right away... He says he will get a detailed blood test once I am off for 5 weeks. Any suggestions or thoughts??? Thanks.

BP AT dOC'S office was 150/90

**BJJ** · 02-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by FCVtec

Went to a sports doc. I had to find one around here with no references so I went some place and thought since they are a sports medicine place they would be able to give me a stress test and all that but it didn't turn out that way. The Doc was a little bit out of his comfort zone(I dont think he ever dealt with roids). Anyways, he told me to stay on the BP med even though he doesn't like the Hydrochlorothiazide I was prescribed by the previous Doc because is not Ideal for active people but chose not to switch it. Obviously he told me to get off the Juice and come back in 5 weeks for some bloodwork so he can t check my test, fsh lh, all that good stuff.

The day I went to the first doc my weight in the morning was 197(mad bloated) and today I woke up at 189, I think is the bloat going down... I am losing weight like crazy. At this point I don't know what to do. I don't want to get off and end up at 180.. I was so damn close to the 200 I always wanted. Am I making a big deal outta this and should wait and see if the BP meds work and finish this damn cycle?

I get pissed because this Doctor pinned my BP probs on the Test right away... He says he will get a detailed blood test once I am off for 5 weeks. Any suggestions or thoughts??? Thanks.

BP AT dOC'S office was 150/90

When you speak about docs you mean endocrinologists?

**FCVtec** · 02-09-2010, 04:04 PM

I don't think so. I have gone to a Doctor inside a Sports science doctor's office.. I think he is just a regular doc "Primary care sports medicine physician(I don't know much about what kinda doctors do what so forgive me if I sound stupid). I do know what endocrinologists do so.... I should be getting looked at by a endo??

--Thanks for replies

--

**BJJ** · 02-09-2010, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by FCVtec

I don't think so. I have gone to a Doctor inside a Sports science doctor's office.. I think he is just a regular doc "Primary care sports medicine physician(I don't know much about what kinda doctors do what so forgive me if I sound stupid). I do know what endocrinologists do so.... I should be getting looked at by a endo??

--Thanks for replies

--

If I were you I would go to see an endocrinologist and a nephrologist.
If you are able to find both of them with experience in AAS, then you have made a bingo, probably.
In any case, easy to say hard to get.

**FCVtec** · 02-24-2010, 01:10 PM

Here's is whats been going on. My BP finally started going down 5 days ago and my BP just now was 128/80. FINALLY! I got back on the hgh 2 days ago at only 1iu and will be going up slowly monitoring my bp constantly. I will run it untill my PCT is done. The diuretic my Doc gave me is Hydraclhorotiazide 25mg in case anyone wants to know. I have about 10 more and plan on taking it till the end. After those are done, can I buy a mild diuretic over the counter just in case? What should I get if anything?

Thanks

**sergioitalian** · 02-25-2010, 02:56 AM

Hi guys, I'm having the same problem, never happened in several years, I'm 40 years old and I started to juice about a year ago, everything was fine until middle february, I started to miss breath during workout, I checked my pulse and I found 98 during the day, 120-130 when I'm in the gym (resting). I guess something is wrong, I thought, then I checked my bp, 150/110

5' 11'' , 230 lbs , 10% bf , Test E 750 Week, Tren 300 Week, Winny oral 50 ED.
Diet, mass diet but clean.

I already started to cut winny and tren, should I use Novaldex or something other?
I didn't mention doctor yet because I'm sure he have no clue of what is happening to me, he just probably will tell me cut all the "crap" and diet without salt.

Btw: Do we know each other BJJ?

**FCVtec** · 03-06-2010, 12:24 PM

Yea, my heart rate was high as well when my BP was high. Are you on HGH as well? There could be many factors to a BP problem, my problem was too much sodium in my diet. My bp now is usually around 135/75 - 140/75 which is not ideal but the HGH keeps it up there for some reason, was on the 120's off HGH, I am getting off the test soon so it should go down further(I hope). Hey Sergio, 150/110 is bad dude. Not so much the 150 but the second number "110" is waaaaaayyyyy high. I would get it checked out if I were you, speacially at 40yrs old.

A question of my own: Should I get more diuretics and run it while I am on test(been on diuretics for 26 days or so). Is it bad to run it for another 30 days?

-THanks guys-

**BIG_GUNS_21** · 03-06-2010, 02:24 PM

Are you using any kind of stimulants? ECA, clen ..T3 anything like that?

That can raise your systolic bp (SP?)

The only reason I ask is that your distolic (lower number) is bang on. And it seems stimulants will raise your systolic pressure first.

Just another thought....

**BJJ** · 03-07-2010, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by sergioitalian

Hi guys, I'm having the same problem, never happened in several years, I'm 40 years old and I started to juice about a year ago, everything was fine until middle february, I started to miss breath during workout, I checked my pulse and I found 98 during the day, 120-130 when I'm in the gym (resting). I guess something is wrong, I thought, then I checked my bp, 150/110

5' 11'' , 230 lbs , 10% bf , Test E 750 Week, Tren 300 Week, Winny oral 50 ED.
Diet, mass diet but clean.

I already started to cut winny and tren, should I use Novaldex or something other?
I didn't mention doctor yet because I'm sure he have no clue of what is happening to me, he just probably will tell me cut all the "crap" and diet without salt.

Btw: Do we know each other BJJ?

how many bjj black belt do you know?

**ScotchGuard** · 03-07-2010, 02:07 PM

You should be careful with diuretics. It can dehydrate you and off balance your electrolytes. Make sure you're taking in enough electrolytes along with water for hydration. HGH will increase your body metabolism that's how you lose fat. In aerobic exercise you take (220 (heart rate of a new born) - age) x 80% = working heart rate. That means that the working heart rate is different based on your age. With the HGH you taking now you've got a 40 yo body but the HGH level of a 20 yo. Your metabolism's going to go up which means your heart rate's going to go up. My resting heart beat is 72 bpm. Before HGH it used to be about 62. My blood pressure's a little higher now also. I'm 50yo on 5iu/ed of HGH. I do lots of cardio along with my resistance training.