igf sub q or intra muscular

**freak1** · 08-31-2012, 01:18 PM

just wondering if you guys take your igf sub q or intra muscular as i have heard both ways.ive always thought intra since you want it in your system fast

**lightweight11** · 08-31-2012, 03:23 PM

I do IM injects before bed on training days only, in the body parts trained.

**Razor** · 08-31-2012, 05:12 PM

Igf des?

**tballz** · 08-31-2012, 05:14 PM

IGF has as systemic effect so no reason to do IM

**freak1** · 09-01-2012, 12:45 PM

razor . igflr3 if that makes a diff

**Razor** · 09-01-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by freak1

razor . igflr3 if that makes a diff

I'm going with igf des...lr3 is fake

**Muscletech** · 09-01-2012, 02:30 PM

If you inject IM igf-1 will be available very soon, if you do SQ then you have to wait minutes (15/20 min?) for availabilty of igf-1... that's the diff..

**lightweight11** · 09-02-2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Razor

I'm going with igf des...lr3 is fake

You think everythings fake

**gixxerboy1** · 09-02-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Razor

I'm going with igf des...lr3 is fake

How is it all fake?

And i thought you were keeping it simple because of you issues. Now you going with des. In another thread you were going to order gw.

**briansvk** · 09-03-2012, 12:16 AM

Same shitty questions and opinions about IGF everywhere... I suggest you guys to learn how to use google and read some GOOD RELEVANT articles, not just forums... but prior to that, read this:

This was written by a guy who has researched this stuff for 13 years and followed the work of Dave Palumbo and seems to be the best information out there on IGF-1 LR3. Leads me to the conclusion that 20mcg post workout bilateral injections would be best on workout days only. Anyway, Read up:

"What do we want? Bigger muscles. More muscle cells that we will later grow with exercise and gear. A pump? Fatloss? Yeah, right. You can get a pump with a good "pump" product for a quarter of the price of IGF-1. Fatloss? Clen /Alb and T3/T4 will give it to you again at a fraction of the price of IGF-1. More muscle cells, you can ONLY get with IGF-1 (and MGF too). Nothing else will give it to you and if you are using IGF-1 for anything else, you are misusing it. More muscle cells is CLEARLY the best use for IGF-1.

What does all this tell us?

It tells us that we should use IGF-1 to make more muscle cells. It's the only thing that can give it to us and more cells is more growth, which is our goal.

What does this tell us?

The localized effects are the best. Long R3 IGF-1 can float around your body and attach to anything that has IGF-1 receptors. The intestines is the place that has the MOST IGF-1 receptors and it also happens to have lots of blood flow. Injecting large amounts of Long R3 ENSURES that you are growing your intestines. Remember, more cells doesn't equal more size right away. Wait a bit, and see them grow.

What does this mean?

It means that if you are injecting upwards of 50mcg of IGF-1 you are growing your intestines. Yes you are also growing muscle and you may be getting leaner in the process. Your waistline looks trimmer. Nice. A few months down the line, your new intestinal cells will be of their full adult size and you will have acquired the perma-bloat look. Guaranteed. Maybe not Coleman-size perma-gut, but SOME perma-gut and it will keep growing. Guaranteed. Just as your new muscle cells can keep growing and growing IF you pin IGF-1 in a way to maximize new muscle cell creation.

HOW?

Heavy resistance exercise strongly upregulates the IGF-1 receptors on the stressed muscle. That means that after your workout, the muscles you trained are at their BEST STATE for receiving IGF-1 and growing many new cells. That's when you pin. This upregulation of IGF-1 receptor during exercise is short-lived. The science is not readily available so I am unable to quote a paper, but within 60 minutes of the last set, the receptors are back at baseline. This means, PIN IMMEDIATELY POSTWORKOUT and you will get your new muscle cells. PIN A LESSER AMOUNT and you will get only new MUSCLE cells out of your IGF-1. Pin more and you will grow other things, including stuff you wish you didn't grow.

What else?

All the talk about IGF-1's half-life is UTTER BULLSHIT. It is technicality without any real-world applicability. Yes rhIGF-1 has a "short half-life". But what does it mean? It means that it is either taken up by a cell receptor or bound up by a binding protein in short order. Does it mean that 20 minutes after the IGF-1 is pinned you should pin more because "blood levels are low"? Not by any means. Once it's activated a cell receptor, that's where it initiates a cellular response that will take about 72 hours to be complete and which will consume lots of energy. So the half-life of 20 minutes means NOTHING BECAUSE THE EFFECTS STILL LAST 72 HOURS ALL THE SAME.

What about Long R3 IGF-1?

Yes technically it has a longer half-life. Why? Because it either gets rapidly taken up by a cell receptor or... Just floats around. Until it can find a receptor or is destroyed by the immune system or some other metabolizing mechanism. BUT THIS MEANS ***NOTHING***!!! Why does it mean nothing? BECAUSE once it attaches to a cell receptor, it initiates a cellular response that will take about 72 hours to be complete. THIS CELLULAR RESPONSE IS ALL THAT INTERESTS US. Not "blood levels", that's utter bullshit. As a matter of fact, the one thing YOU DO NOT WANT IS FOR BLOOD LEVELS OF IGF-1 TO BE ELEVATED. Because that means you are growing everywhere and this means first and foremost your guts. Sure it feels like it's working while you're on. Just you wait 9 months and see that you look like Craig Kovacs. Bravo, you now have the biggest intestines in the world.

Half-life means nothing. Localized vs systemic = bad argument. You want localized effects. Period. You get them by pinning immediately postworkout. Period. End of argument.

OMFG I am so tired of all the misinformation floating around on IGF-1. Look at the length of this post. Did you read all of it? You should, you know."

**Razor** · 09-03-2012, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by lightweight11

You think everythings fake

ok fake is the wrong word, I dont think it works...so bunk is more like it. I have used it before and did not like it. I think IGF-1 DES has just as long half life and way more anabolic .

DO some cross forum searching in google, there is plenty of info out about bot of them

"IGF-1 (INSULIN -LIKE GROWTH FACTOR-1)

Reported Characteristics
Drug Class: Growth Factor
Average Reported Dosage: 60-1000mcg daily
Water Retention: Diet dependent

IGF-1 is naturally produced in the liver as a result of GH (Growth Hormone ) metabolism in the presence of insulin. Muscle tissue can also produce IGF-1 by way of an intracellular response. In fact, one of the benefits of training sets that result in an intense burn, or stretch position training, is the production of natural IGF-1. It is also a side effect of oral 17-ALFA ALKYLATED STEROIDS , which cause a higher release of IGF-1 from the liver. IGF-1 receptors exist throughout muscles and organs such as the heart, spleen, small intestines, and kidneys with a higher concentration of receptors exerting effects upon organs. IGF-1 is extremely anabolic, far more so than GH or Insulin.

Recombinant IGF-1 (genetically engineered) was reported to be effective when injected intramuscularly because it causes localized growth. This was the most popular method, and the agreed wisest for the most part. The drug has a half-life of about 10 minutes, and if it is or has been bound to IGF -BP-3, (INSULIN GROWTH FACTOR BINDING PROTEIN) the half- life is extended to about 12 hours. Pro's often stacked Insulin and/or GH with IGF-1 because IGF-1 shuts off natural GH production and GH causes Insulin resistance. IGF-1 is often referred to as Pro-insulin because it counteracts Insulin resistance and interacts with insulin. But this would actually be an untrue term for IGF-1.

IGF-1 can have all the side effect of GH or insulin use with an added negative: gastrointestinal (GI) growth. This is due to a higher number of IGF-1 receptors being located in the GI tract as compared to skeletal muscle. The latter has more GH receptors. This explains much of the bloat seen in pro bodybuilders of late.

IGF-1 is not stable in synthetic forms. A loud noise, shaking a vial, and sudden heat changes can render it nothing more than a bunch of expensive amino acids. Picture a piece of string folded up in a specific shape and held in that shape by a few fibers. This is what an amino acid sequence for GH or IGF-1 looks like, but the IGF-1 sequence has only 2 fibers keeping the active shape. The strand or string is a specific amino acid sequence. The shaping fibers holding the active shape are called disulfide bridges. Change the folding or break a bridge and the IGF-1 no longer fits into its receptor-site. Like a key must have a specific shape to actuate its lock, so must a drug have the right shape to actuate its receptor. Again, this explains the common noted necessity of careful preparation and site-specific injection (into the muscle group trained that day) when IGF-1 was administered.

Common stacks have been 0.25-0.50-mg of GH per KG of body weight stacked with 60-1000mcg of IGF-1 divided into 2-5 daily injections. Many had reported improved lean mass gains by combining both with insulin and high androgen AAS (Such as testosterone or orals such as DIANABOL and /or ANADROL -50) for 4-8 weeks. Many simply injected 40-mcg of IGF-1 directly into the muscle group trained that day after training. It is important to note that IGF-1 can cause hypoglycemia and blood sugar monitoring was considered paramount by most.

*The reader should note that igf-1 has been used clinically on children at dosages of over 3-7mg daily. That is 3,000-7,000 mcg a day! No negative side effects were recorded, though none were expected? Of course. The point being is that the 40-100 mcg of igf-1 used by athletes is most likely insufficient, yet very expensive. However, the results some individuals have realized through igf-1 use are amazing. I Have personally noted amazing new growth as a result of past igf-1 administration. However it is important that readers realize that long term negative side effects have not been well studied. Anything that possesses genetic altering potential has equally negative potential as well.

DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)

Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (Insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!

IGF-1 is actually produced from both Insulin and growth hormone in the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding Protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening.

However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.

Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!

Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently."

Original poster
rainbowinthedark
Source unknown

**Muscletech** · 09-03-2012, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by briansvk

Same shitty questions and opinions about IGF everywhere... I suggest you guys to learn how to use google and read some GOOD RELEVANT articles, not just forums... but prior to that, read this:

So, I attend 5/6 boards like this... There are so many HUGE guys who keep 100mcg of LR3 every day 8 weeks on/off.. post injection they says the arm is 0.5" bigger (when igf-1 stop, the muscle not remain 0.5" bigger) and they are fuc*ng ripped, say they use DES and LR3 year round (always month on/off) and they don't have huge gut or abnormal ABS..

I trust the experience of the users (including some IFBB pro's) and not to the theory of someone.

Taken LR3 post workout inhibits MGF action.. so it's wrong.. you should use PEG MGF to see the real results, and you can run LR3 on non workout days in the am..

(sorry for my english)

my 2 cents buddies

**lightweight11** · 09-03-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Muscletech

So, I attend 5/6 boards like this... There are so many HUGE guys who keep 100mcg of LR3 every day 8 weeks on/off.. post injection they says the arm is 0.5" bigger (when igf-1 stop, the muscle not remain 0.5" bigger) and they are fuc*ng ripped, say they use DES and LR3 year round (always month on/off) and they don't have huge gut or abnormal ABS..

I trust the experience of the users (including some IFBB pro's) and not to the theory of someone.

Taken LR3 post workout inhibits MGF action.. so it's wrong.. you should use PEG MGF to see the real results, and you can run LR3 on non workout days in the am..

(sorry for my english)

my 2 cents buddies

I've been running it very similar. I do MGF immediately PostWO in the muscle trained and then pin my IGF before bed or on my off day.

**Muscletech** · 09-03-2012, 01:33 PM

Yeah that's a solid protocol buddy..

**ScotchGuard02** · 09-03-2012, 01:46 PM

I ran multiple cycles of igf-lr3/HGH/Test. I was focusing localized growth in my biceps. My biceps never really peak. My arms get bigger but genetically, I can't peak the biceps. Life stinks. LOL Honestly, I never got the growth that I was expecting via igf-lr3. It's now been about 6 years since I've been cycling AAS. FINALLY, I see some peaking in my biceps. The thing is that I haven't used igf-lr3 for almost 5 years. I just haven't gotten the results that I was expecting. I'm no scientist so I can't publish an exhaustive paper on the affect of igf-lr3. For me, it didn't seem to work.