This study made me change my mind i guess

[yannick35]

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/gr...-testosterone/

The amount of GH to take to have a reaction is incredible.

I guess that $$$ wise i will stick with testosterone 100mg per week or so, and on and off steroid cycle.

I have a presc for testosterone 10 weeks cost me 9$

I still have 2 kits of GH not even sure if they are real or not, i get the swollen hands and stuff but even then.

For the price i pay i can be on testosterone for 10 years.

[Times Roman]

it's still an apples/oranges comparison depending on what you want to do. As a life extender, HGH does things aas cannot. I'm trying to sub peps for HGH due to the high % of bogus HGH.

[Times Roman]

I agree that the current benefit / cost ratio may be too high for those on a limited budget, ESPECIALLY once you figure in risk of obtaining bogus instead of hgh. Yet another reason for peps for those that only want/need a low dose hgh boost (a few iu/day max).

However, I'm not liking the study periods the article is referring to. Longest was 12 weeks, shortest was 4 weeks. no one here really expects anything under 6 months, so i think the time span on the study is most likely flawed.

Additionally, this is a 1999 article. 13 years old! I'd like to see something a little more current if I were to make a decision based on this lone article

[yannick35]

Still for fat loss they said 8IU per day WOW, i am not sure but i fear that 2IU 5/2 i am wasting my money. Not sure if using 10g of arginine at night and glutamine and weight lifting plus fasting 15hrs a day would do the same thing has injecting 1-2IU of GH per day.

Far less expensive.

[yannick35]

http://blog.chron.com/menshealth/201...-testosterone/

2011 study

[Times Roman]

Still for fat loss they said 8IU per day WOW, i am not sure but i fear that 2IU 5/2 i am wasting my money. Not sure if using 10g of arginine at night and glutamine and weight lifting plus fasting 15hrs a day would do the same thing has injecting 1-2IU of GH per day.

Far less expensive.

yeah, i saw that too and thought the same thing. it would have been better to take 1/4 the dose for 4x as long and stretch it out to a year. I think the results would have been much more relevent.

How old are you yannick?

taking arginine as a secretague before bed becomes less effective the older you get. and at 45, it really doesn't do anything. or are you just saying if that cocktail would be equally effective?

I think the older you get, the more you need to rely on peps and exogeneous HGH, and less on the oral secretagues.

[yannick35]

Just turned 40 last June, i feel that the perfect age to start low dose steroid is 40. To help with recuperation and fat loss.

I remember being younger a guy at the gym did a testosterone cycle no more then 200mg per week, he did an 8 weeks cycle with good diet, he lost a lot of fat and build an amazing physique, he was 41 years old.

Not sure what happened after is cycle tough i did not see him at the gym after that.

[Times Roman]

just read the next article. i think those in the BB world use hgh due to it's slow but steady growth of new muscle tissue (hyperplasia), instead of just increasing the size of the cells in muscle tissue (hypertrophy) as is typically the case with aas.

[Phased]

Still for fat loss they said 8IU per day WOW, i am not sure but i fear that 2IU 5/2 i am wasting my money. Not sure if using 10g of arginine at night and glutamine and weight lifting plus fasting 15hrs a day would do the same thing has injecting 1-2IU of GH per day.

Far less expensive.

Fat loss can easily be acheved btw 3-4iu's a day.

[Brazensol]

Just turned 40 last June, i feel that the perfect age to start low dose steroid is 40. To help with recuperation and fat loss.

I remember being younger a guy at the gym did a testosterone cycle no more then 200mg per week, he did an 8 weeks cycle with good diet, he lost a lot of fat and build an amazing physique, he was 41 years old.

Not sure what happened after is cycle tough i did not see him at the gym after that.

Is 200mgs/week really enough to make serious progress? If yes, then this is very intriguing to me! I was under the impression to get serious gains from the testosterone you had to be on a much higher dose.

[Times Roman]

Is 200mgs/week really enough to make serious progress? If yes, then this is very intriguing to me! I was under the impression to get serious gains from the testosterone you had to be on a much higher dose.

he's talking abouut a trt dose, not a cycle dose (not to speak for yannick). a trt dose can take up to two full years to realize all the intended health benefits (increased bone density, body resculpting, etc.)

[yannick35]

Is 200mgs/week really enough to make serious progress? If yes, then this is very intriguing to me! I was under the impression to get serious gains from the testosterone you had to be on a much higher dose.

I am gonna go off topic here and share a conversation that i had last week with a 62 year old men. My medical doctor that gives me prolotherapy introduced me to him, we talk for one hour. He has been using steroids for 35 years, he still uses steroids and never went over 200mg for deca and test E, and yes he made great gains. Not supra gains but good gains that he was able to keep after since it was not blown out of proportion. Last year i did a 200mg deca, test E and masteron cycle 20 weeks and i put on 44 pounds yes water, yes fat but some of it was also muscles. If you have good gear 200mg of testosterone is very strong.

I am going on cycle in October using 200mg depo testosterone, 300mg equpoise not sure if i will add 150mg of tren . But keeping dosage low and going for 12 weeks cycle, its easier to comeback with a good PCT. Of course diet and training must be prime.

This men told me that he does 12 weeks cycle, never used any supplement except milk and egg protein back in the early 80, never used more then 200mg of each deca and test. He also use dianabol 20mg to kick start all is cycles. He is freaken big and massive for is age. He sort of blew out is shoulder and why he is getting prolo now. He has never taken GH.

[Phased]

just read the next article. i think those in the BB world use hgh due to it's slow but steady growth of new muscle tissue (hyperplasia), instead of just increasing the size of the cells in muscle tissue (hypertrophy) as is typically the case with aas.

This is absolutely the case. The longer gh is run the more effective it is. Gh can be run almost indefinitely with little side effects besides the positive ones. I also think it is a safer long term solution and treatment to HRT, but that is just my opinion others might not think so.

3-4 iu's of real GH is more than enough for some of the best results you can get. Running higher amounts for bb purposes will have much more unwanted side effects. Waistline and stomach gut growth, carpal tunnel, and possible facial bone growth in the higher end of running it. Running 10-15ius a day is just madness for anyone not in the bodybuilding community.

Most if not all AA clinics with not allowed prescribe more than 1-3iu's for anyone. Its a safe and effective dose for more of the general public

Hope this helps.

[yannick35]

he's talking abouut a trt dose, not a cycle dose (not to speak for yannick). a trt dose can take up to two full years to realize all the intended health benefits (increased bone density, body resculpting, etc.)

For what i read and here testosterone is an amazing hormone my natural T is around 700 natural, but i supplement with 100mg of test per week i want to reap the benefits bone density and a lot more.

But this time around i got an AI, HCG and a great team behind me. Last year i was with a stupid doctor.

All i can afford for HGH if its year round is 1IU per day or do simple 6 month cycle of 2IU per day 5/2 but in the end will it be worth it, what will i have gained.

My hair has grown a lot since i started taking this collagen supplement, this intended to fix my ligament laxity, i cannot say GH had a strong impact.

3-4IU is good for fatloss but i don't have that kind of money to put on GH, worst if testosterone gets me where i want to be i have a full script for it at 9$ per bottle.

At the price i pay GH i could buy another trip to Mexico with my girlfriend. Better that then put X amount of money on GH each year.

[yannick35]

I guess that since i started training again i am taking BB real seriously, my diet is getting better, my training to a bit of cardio, at 40 i am ready to do small cycles of steroids because i see them has a medecin and not a drug that can help my body, heal faster, burn more fat and maybe try to get back to the metabolism i had when i was 18, this can be done with people who know what they are doing. Small dosage of T with HCG and armidex wont hurt.

If i was sure that taking GH for one year at 1IU would do something i would, i have been taking GH for close to 6 months now, at 1-2IU per day and i saw a bit of benefits i am not convinced its all that amazing. For wrinkles, my gray hair is worst then even, and i got more hair regrowth with collagen pills then GH.

But i still have pains in hand when i inject so i guess its real. I am also around 220 so not sure if the heavier you are the more GH you need.

[Brazensol]

he's talking abouut a trt dose, not a cycle dose (not to speak for yannick). a trt dose can take up to two full years to realize all the intended health benefits (increased bone density, body resculpting, etc.)

My thoughts exactly. 200 mgs is a trt dose (although somewhat on the high side) and I was thinking cycling was considerably higher. I like the idea of 200 mgs since I am on trt anyway and any gains I make I get to keep! It's fine if it takes a bit longer (good things come to those who wait) than cycling. I'm on 120 mgs/week now and based on my response to this I think I need to increase to at least 140 to 150 mgs/week.

[Times Roman]

For what i read and here testosterone is an amazing hormone my natural T is around 700 natural, but i supplement with 100mg of test per week i want to reap the benefits bone density and a lot more.
But this time around i got an AI, HCG and a great team behind me. Last year i was with a stupid doctor.

All i can afford for HGH if its year round is 1IU per day or do simple 6 month cycle of 2IU per day 5/2 but in the end will it be worth it, what will i have gained.

My hair has grown a lot since i started taking this collagen supplement, this intended to fix my ligament laxity, i cannot say GH had a strong impact.

3-4IU is good for fatloss but i don't have that kind of money to put on GH, worst if testosterone gets me where i want to be i have a full script for it at 9$ per bottle.

At the price i pay GH i could buy another trip to Mexico with my girlfriend. Better that then put X amount of money on GH each year.

Mate,
If your natural T is 700, then i'd just go with that. that is about what mine is after trt. but it doesn't work the way you are thinking. 700 natty + 100 added exogeneously does not equal 800 total. the 100 exo you add will partially surpress your natty, and the best you can hope for is still 700. maybe you should start a thread on this and we can debate more specifically, with multiple opinions so you will see my point.
Please take care?
---Roman

[yannick35]

Mate,
If your natural T is 700, then i'd just go with that. that is about what mine is after trt. but it doesn't work the way you are thinking. 700 natty + 100 added exogeneously does not equal 800 total. the 100 exo you add will partially surpress your natty, and the best you can hope for is still 700. maybe you should start a thread on this and we can debate more specifically, with multiple opinions so you will see my point.
Please take care?
---Roman

Always a pleasure talking to you Times you got great info. You are right about the 100mg i am planning a cycle but will not go above 200mg last time it really did the trick.

[yannick35]

My thoughts exactly. 200 mgs is a trt dose (although somewhat on the high side) and I was thinking cycling was considerably higher. I like the idea of 200 mgs since I am on trt anyway and any gains I make I get to keep! It's fine if it takes a bit longer (good things come to those who wait) than cycling. I'm on 120 mgs/week now and based on my response to this I think I need to increase to at least 140 to 150 mgs/week.

Great info, yes acutally 200mg say deca and 200mg of testosterone E or C will work wonders, and since you dont go crazy like 400mg deca and 600mg T a week its easier for your system to bounce back after PCT and you get to keep some gains, also it is not apparent you are on steroids because the results are not that drastic. When i do so i gain a lot and people start talking i just tell them i hit then gym hard during a certain period. Looking forward to the next year now that back pain issues are 80% resolve.

Lets see what this 40 year old body is capable off.

[Times Roman]

Always a pleasure talking to you Times you got great info. You are right about the 100mg i am planning a cycle but will not go above 200mg last time it really did the trick.

Thanks mate.

I am totally confused. If your natty T levels are at 700, why would you pin exogeneously at 100 or 200mg? Adding test will surpress your natty production.

Unless you really are not at 700?

Something doesnt' seem right?

Maybe Gdivine or Vettester can step in here?

[Brazensol]

I wonder how much exogenous T it takes to make the body shut down it's own production? However much it is at the very least I would think, that short of complete shutdown, that if you add X amount then your own production will stop producing by the same amount.

[Brazensol]

Great info, yes acutally 200mg say deca and 200mg of testosterone E or C will work wonders, and since you dont go crazy like 400mg deca and 600mg T a week its easier for your system to bounce back after PCT and you get to keep some gains, also it is not apparent you are on steroids because the results are not that drastic. When i do so i gain a lot and people start talking i just tell them i hit then gym hard during a certain period. Looking forward to the next year now that back pain issues are 80% resolve.

Lets see what this 40 year old body is capable off.

So you still have to supplement with other steroids? I was hoping T cyp would be enough to do the trick...

And oh, to be 40 again!

[Times Roman]

I wonder how much exogenous T it takes to make the body shut down it's own production? However much it is at the very least I would think, that short of complete shutdown, that if you add X amount then your own production will stop producing by the same amount.

that's more or less the understanding i have. which is why what yannick said is confusing to me. 700 is a great T level. I had low 200 when starting on trt. If i had 700, then no need for trt in my opinion.

[Sgt. Hartman]

This is absolutely the case. The longer gh is run the more effective it is. Gh can be run almost indefinitely with little side effects besides the positive ones. I also think it is a safer long term solution and treatment to HRT, but that is just my opinion others might not think so.

3-4 iu's of real GH is more than enough for some of the best results you can get. Running higher amounts for bb purposes will have much more unwanted side effects. Waistline and stomach gut growth, carpal tunnel, and possible facial bone growth in the higher end of running it. Running 10-15ius a day is just madness for anyone not in the bodybuilding community.

Most if not all AA clinics with not allowed prescribe more than 1-3iu's for anyone. Its a safe and effective dose for more of the general public

Hope this helps.

I don't disagree with you at all, I've drawn pretty much the same conclusion but just curious what your opinion is on all the studies out there that link prolonged elevated IGF-1 levels to cancer?

[yannick35]

Thanks mate.

I am totally confused. If your natty T levels are at 700, why would you pin exogeneously at 100 or 200mg? Adding test will surpress your natty production.

Unless you really are not at 700?

Something doesnt' seem right?

Maybe Gdivine or Vettester can step in here?

200mg seems to be the sweet spot for me, coming back is very easy, with HCG , and armidex does the trick. At 200mg with a good training program i can also keep some of the gains i made. Like i said i spot with an older juicer 62 years old the guy and he been using steroids for 35 years he alsways does cycles with deca , test and kick off with dianabol , 200mg for each and dianabol 20mg per day for 3-4 weeks.

What he said made sense to me, coming back is a lot easier when you do low dosage then using supra dosage like 500mg deca and 600mg test don't you agree?

[yannick35]

I don't disagree with you at all, I've drawn pretty much the same conclusion but just curious what your opinion is on all the studies out there that link prolonged elevated IGF-1 levels to cancer?

You know what it all depends on dosage, at 1-2IU of GH i am sure that the IGF1 response is not that great.

[Times Roman]

200mg seems to be the sweet spot for me, coming back is very easy, with HCG , and armidex does the trick. At 200mg with a good training program i can also keep some of the gains i made. Like i said i spot with an older juicer 62 years old the guy and he been using steroids for 35 years he alsways does cycles with deca , test and kick off with dianabol , 200mg for each and dianabol 20mg per day for 3-4 weeks.

What he said made sense to me, coming back is a lot easier when you do low dosage then using supra dosage like 500mg deca and 600mg test don't you agree?

No answer for you mate. I trt, not pct, so i can't say which way would be easier to come back from with first hand experience. Either way, if it works for you, then obviously keep doing it.

Cheers!

[Times Roman]

You know what it all depends on dosage, at 1-2IU of GH i am sure that the IGF1 response is not that great.

I agree. LEF recommends for older bulls my age somewhere around 1.5iu/day forever........................

[yannick35]

Best bet i try it and report back, i lost my damn source last night (Not asking for a new source), i got 2 GH kits 10IU X20 bottles, 1 delatestryl bottle 10ML (TRT presc), 2 equipoises bottles 10ML 200mg per ML and 1 tren 10ML 100mg per ML.

I will start off with 300mg EQ per week and 200mg T, i will hold on to the tren until early next year.

At that point i will be fully repaired and ready to train full blast again. I am so pumped up. I can report back with gains when i am finish. I will keep reading your post and results on peptides.

[cyounger100]

[What brand of.hgh.are.you usingQUOTE=yannick35;6184068]I guess that since i started training again i am taking BB real seriously, my diet is getting better, my training to a bit of cardio, at 40 i am ready to do small cycles of steroids because i see them has a medecin and not a drug that can help my body, heal faster, burn more fat and maybe try to get back to the metabolism i had when i was 18, this can be done with people who know what they are doing. Small dosage of T with HCG and armidex wont hurt









If i was sure that taking GH for one year at 1IU would do something i would, i have been taking GH for close to 6 months now, at 1-2IU per day and i saw a bit of benefits i am not convinced its all that amazing. For wrinkles, my gray hair is worst then even, and i got more hair regrowth with collagen pills then GH.

But i still have pains in hand when i inject so i guess its real. I am also around 220 so not sure if the heavier you are the more GH you need.[/QUOTE]

[yannick35]

arctotropin, i am kind of stuck on your avatar sorry hehehhee

[Phased]

I don't disagree with you at all, I've drawn pretty much the same conclusion but just curious what your opinion is on all the studies out there that link prolonged elevated IGF-1 levels to cancer?

"HGH Rejuvenates the Immune System and HGH improves the manufacture of antibodies, increases production of disease-fighting white blood cells, immune T-cells and interleukin 2, and improves production of new red blood cells.

Antioxidants such as Vitamin C, Vitamin E, etc., can remove free radicals and keep destructive enzymes that cause cell damage from becoming active. But growth hormone activates a cellular defense force called protease inhibitors that prevent free radicals from doing their deadly work. The latest European research shows that growth hormone can not only extend what antioxidants do, it can also go beyond and do what antioxidants cannot."

From this I can deduce a factual conclusion that if you do not already have cancer gh could and most likey can and will prevent free radical damage and help fight cancer forming cells in your body. I believe that gh is and will be the future of cancer prevention the same way it combats aids/HIV positive wasting.

I don't know if it will be ever marketed as cancer prevention because of the stigma that some people think it can cause cancer. But look what it can do to us normal people as well as what it can do to people with real diesases.

[MyteeJ]

For what i read and here testosterone is an amazing hormone my natural T is around 700 natural, but i supplement with 100mg of test per week i want to reap the benefits bone density and a lot more.

But this time around i got an AI, HCG and a great team behind me. Last year i was with a stupid doctor.

All i can afford for HGH if its year round is 1IU per day or do simple 6 month cycle of 2IU per day 5/2 but in the end will it be worth it, what will i have gained.

My hair has grown a lot since i started taking this collagen supplement, this intended to fix my ligament laxity, i cannot say GH had a strong impact.

3-4IU is good for fatloss but i don't have that kind of money to put on GH, worst if testosterone gets me where i want to be i have a full script for it at 9$ per bottle.

At the price i pay GH i could buy another trip to Mexico with my girlfriend. Better that then put X amount of money on GH each year.

Yans - Is the collagen supplement otc? You have me thinking about that now after our earlier convo last week. My joints are awful from injury and simple wear and tear. Thanks.

[yannick35]

Yes its collagenics pretty good i have no choice with prolotherapy because after 20 something i have been told that collagen synthetics is none existent, so even if you take steroids you wont produce enough, at least last year cycle 20 weeks did not do squat with prolo deca masteron and test.

This year changing from dextrose to sodium morrhuate made a sick change, but collagen must be present, at 2IU GH per day it wont produce must, we need at least 6IU to get a good change, not sure where i read this but still.

I use metagenics collegenics i feel its complete with vitamin C, horsetail, and a lot more i think you can order from the internet, i get it from my medical doctor.

[yannick35]

"HGH Rejuvenates the Immune System and HGH improves the manufacture of antibodies, increases production of disease-fighting white blood cells, immune T-cells and interleukin 2, and improves production of new red blood cells.

Antioxidants such as Vitamin C, Vitamin E, etc., can remove free radicals and keep destructive enzymes that cause cell damage from becoming active. But growth hormone activates a cellular defense force called protease inhibitors that prevent free radicals from doing their deadly work. The latest European research shows that growth hormone can not only extend what antioxidants do, it can also go beyond and do what antioxidants cannot."

From this I can deduce a factual conclusion that if you do not already have cancer gh could and most likey can and will prevent free radical damage and help fight cancer forming cells in your body. I believe that gh is and will be the future of cancer prevention the same way it combats aids/HIV positive wasting.

I don't know if it will be ever marketed as cancer prevention because of the stigma that some people think it can cause cancer. But look what it can do to us normal people as well as what it can do to people with real diesases.

HIV dosage for GH 18-20IU PER DAY, imagine the side effects this is written on my arctotropin manual. Most studies i read on GH to get an effect are above 8IU a day. The guy that sold me my GH kit takes 10IU per day EVERYDAY. I don't have this kind of money honest. I started reading the benefits of testosterone VS GH and found that testosterone is the GH in a few things. For the price at least.

I still got 2 kits to go but after that i am done with GH, for the price and benefits.

Like everything else i guess that GH is very dependent on dosage, the more you take the more sides you get and vice versa.

Another thing i hate is the medical studies, the benefits of GH supplementation are studied on patience that are lacking natural GH production, they don't care about someone who is aging but has normal GH production for is age.

This is why all of us must reply on other members personal experience to see what type of results they got and more because the information on the internet website is just not good.

[MyteeJ]

Yes its collagenics pretty good i have no choice with prolotherapy because after 20 something i have been told that collagen synthetics is none existent, so even if you take steroids you wont produce enough, at least last year cycle 20 weeks did not do squat with prolo deca masteron and test.

This year changing from dextrose to sodium morrhuate made a sick change, but collagen must be present, at 2IU GH per day it wont produce must, we need at least 6IU to get a good change, not sure where i read this but still.

I use metagenics collegenics i feel its complete with vitamin C, horsetail, and a lot more i think you can order from the internet, i get it from my medical doctor.

Always appreciate the info. Looking into that route today.

[MyteeJ]

Did you ever look into Semorelin? Supposedly it will help boost the gh program. The only evidence I'll have of that is blood work and for me, it will be 2 months before I have any reports.