Thoughts on Test/Dbol PCT

[Thug Nasty]

Looking to do a test enan and dianabol cycle. This will be my first cycle.
week 1- 12 400 mgs ew test enan
week 1-4 40mgs ed dianabol

maybe -
weel 1-12 .25 mg L-Dex ed ???
Aromasin on hand in case of gyno??

So here's when I have some more questions.
Possible PCT:
(14 days after last test shot)
week 1 clomid 100mg nolva 40mg
week 2 clomid 50mg nolva 40mg
week 3-5 clomid 50mg nolva 20mg.

It sounds like HCG is not necessary for nut shrinkage on this mild cycle.

Should I be running 0.25 mg of L-dex throughout PCT? How about Aromasin (AI) throughout PCT?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks fellas.

[Kale]

Well thought out cycle. No need for Aromasin and just keep the L-Dex on hand in case of symptoms. And no HCG required

PCT Like this

Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

[N4cer]

I'd drop the clomiphene down to 50mg/day after the first week. It won't help much to have it up there, and it really raises SHBG.

[Thug Nasty]

Thanks Kale and N4cer for the info.

[Civic0]

isnt liquidex the same as arimidex ?

if so, isnt arimidex post cycle a big no-no?

at least according to A. Roberts....

[N4cer]

It's always been considered bad during PCT. But someone made a new write-up and all the rage is to follow right along because it IS written on the internet so it must be right.

[Civic0]

hmmm . .. i guess so but will always stay away from it in PCT.

[Kale]

It's always been considered bad during PCT. But someone made a new write-up and all the rage is to follow right along because it IS written on the internet so it must be right.

Nothing new about this dude, its been around for a long time. Here is what Pheedno says about it. What is Roberts rebutall to this based on ?

"My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles


PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex

Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Arimidex (or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis"

[N4cer]

Yup. I don't believe that write-up is very old. Few years.