one8nine's opinion on pct (links to side effect control too)

**Flex-Appeal** · 08-04-2008, 07:19 PM

the ultimate battle: CLOMID vs. NOLVA

**Flex-Appeal** · 08-04-2008, 07:20 PM

my doc told me clomid creates a "hormonal imbalance"...go figure

**one8nine** · 08-04-2008, 09:39 PM

hows that edit guys.

**hockeyguy** · 08-05-2008, 08:23 AM

OK So I'm a bit confused: I've seen on here people say to use Nolva(Tamoxifen ) and L-Dex for test only PCT, but now it seems thats not a good idea? I'm almost 9 weeks in on my cycle with Tamo. and L-dex for PCT is this no good? Should I just go with the Tamo

**hockeyguy** · 08-05-2008, 05:44 PM

Bump

**one8nine** · 08-05-2008, 05:50 PM

if you use ldex, use it at 1mg ed
but more preferably switch it for aromasin or proviron

**hockeyguy** · 08-05-2008, 05:55 PM

Thanks one8nine. Like I say I go through AR-R and they didn't have any Aromasin but I found a site that does so maybe I'll give it a try. On a test only would it be better to just run liquinolva and no L-Dex or use the 1mg ed? I haven't used an AI while on the cycle. Once again thanks man.

**one8nine** · 08-05-2008, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by hockeyguy

Thanks one8nine. Like I say I go through AR-R and they didn't have any Aromasin but I found a site that does so maybe I'll give it a try. On a test only would it be better to just run liquinolva and no L-Dex or use the 1mg ed? I haven't used an AI while on the cycle. Once again thanks man.

the only rerason they dont mix is because nolva decreases the effectiveness of arimidex , so you gotta double up the dose. so better to take 1mg than nothing.

**hockeyguy** · 08-05-2008, 06:00 PM

Once again thanks.

**wukillabee** · 08-06-2008, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

the only rerason they dont mix is because nolva decreases the effectiveness of arimidex, so you gotta double up the dose. so better to take 1mg than nothing.

Agreed! Best to have 1 serm (nolva or tormifene, search tormifene supposed to be more effective than nolva in the same ways and less liver toxic. Theres a few technical threads on it here if u guys search it.) and 1 ai (aromasin or prov), hcg if using a 19-nor-long cycles just as one8nine already stated. L-dex is best used on cycle to keep bloat/acne sides down as well as estro starting at .25mg eod and go from there. Letro does the same on cycle but better to use on cycle with 19-nor like deca or tren cus letro does the same as l-dex on cycle and also helps with prolactin/progesterone sides! Like he said, if u cant get aromasin or prov in time for u pct then best use l-dex since its better than no ai in ur pct.

**one8nine** · 08-06-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Agreed! Best to have 1 serm (nolva or tormifene, search tormifene supposed to be more effective than nolva in the same ways and less liver toxic. Theres a few technical threads on it here if u guys search it.) and 1 ai (aromasin or prov), hcg if using a 19-nor-long cycles just as one8nine already stated. L-dex is best used on cycle to keep bloat/acne sides down as well as estro starting at .25mg eod and go from there. Letro does the same on cycle but better to use on cycle with 19-nor like deca or tren cus letro does the same as l-dex on cycle and also helps with prolactin/progesterone sides! Like he said, if u cant get aromasin or prov in time for u pct then best use l-dex since its better than no ai in ur pct.

did you just read my thread and paraphrase it or do you just knoe some serious pct shit

**wukillabee** · 08-06-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

did you just read my thread and paraphrase it or do you just knoe some serious pct shit

I credited u to the quick summary of what u said. Have read tons though on here before starting aas and know a lot more than people who have been usin aas for years. Work gets so a lot since r enconomy is shit now and since i can go online with my phone this is where i spend a lot of time. Intrested to use or hear from people who have used tormifene as a serm in place of nolva. Seems like a promising new serm (not too new, i think mid 90s), less toxicity, double the strength of nolva! Probably cus most people have never heard of it or seen it. Ive just seen it once on a chem site and did some research on it and thats a quick summary of what ive found on it, sounds very promising and same cost as nolva.

**one8nine** · 08-06-2008, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

I credited u to the quick summary of what u said. Have read tons though on here before starting aas and know a lot more than people who have been usin aas for years. Work gets so a lot since r enconomy is shit now and since i can go online with my phone this is where i spend a lot of time. Intrested to use or hear from people who have used tormifene as a serm in place of nolva. Seems like a promising new serm (not too new, i think mid 90s), less toxicity, double the strength of nolva! Probably cus most people have never heard of it or seen it. Ive just seen it once on a chem site and did some research on it and thats a quick summary of what ive found on it, sounds very promising and same cost as nolva.

yeah i dont wanna like it cause i got like 10 cycles of nolva leftover. if i like your new drug more i have to throw all my nolva away. dont fvck up my life.

**peachfuzz** · 08-06-2008, 10:35 PM

Been using toremifene for about 2 years now myself. I thought it was old news and wondered why it hasnt caught on by now. I love it. No negative side effects at all for me. On a mg for mg basis its not stronger than nolva. Being cousins they are very similar, however side effects are milder with torem. raloxifene is another SERM that will become more popular very shortly.

Here are some links on torem if anyone is interested. In short, Toremifene is less toxic than Nolva and better on bone density and lipids.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO...stractID=20282

**RotorHead** · 08-07-2008, 02:59 PM

great post.. been learning a shit ton about PCT reading all these arguments

!

So this is why SI and SERM are used in PCT

**Swifto** · 08-09-2008, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

Been using toremifene for about 2 years now myself. I thought it was old news and wondered why it hasnt caught on by now. I love it. No negative side effects at all for me. On a mg for mg basis its not stronger than nolva. Being cousins they are very similar, however side effects are milder with torem. raloxifene is another SERM that will become more popular very shortly.

Here are some links on torem if anyone is interested. In short, Toremifene is less toxic than Nolva and better on bone density and lipids.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.asco.org/portal/site/ASCO...stractID=20282

Torm seems to be the ideal choice of SERM for PCT, whilst Ralox seems to b the ideal choice for fighting gyno (which is what I'm using now).

Another thing to note about Nolva over Clomid is, most of the studies done on males show results on LH/FSH/T increasing after 3-12 months. Whilst results on Clomid are far quicker (2-6 weeks).

IMHO, Torm should be used, if not Clomid (low dose), if your one of the minority that gets sides at any dose, Nolva or Ralox.

It should be noted there is far more research on Clomid (males) and its an Endo's first weapon of attack when treating hypogonadal males.

**one8nine** · 08-09-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Torm seems to be the ideal choice of SERM for PCT, whilst Ralox seems to b the ideal choice for fighting gyno (which is what I'm using now).

Another thing to note about Nolva over Clomid is, most of the studies done on males show results on LH/FSH/T increasing after 3-12 months. Whilst results on Clomid are far quicker (2-6 weeks).

IMHO, Torm should be used, if not Clomid (low dose), if your one of the minority that gets sides at any dose, Nolva or Ralox.

It should be noted there is far more research on Clomid (males) and its an Endo's first weapon of attack when treating hypogonadal males.

i like you swifto

fulla good shit!

the probloem i see with those is popularity, which dictates availability
everybody on this board could get clomid/nolva from 20 different places, ive never once seen the other two

**w8lifteruf11** · 08-09-2008, 11:17 AM

Thanks 189, your info was very helpful.

**Swifto** · 08-09-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

i like you swifto

fulla good shit!

the probloem i see with those is popularity, which dictates availability
everybody on this board could get clomid/nolva from 20 different places, ive never once seen the other two

Woops! It was meant to be a PM. Ha Ha...

**one8nine** · 08-10-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Keep this to yourself please.

haha well you might wanna edit it out then cause i pimp this pct thread link all over the board

**Swifto** · 08-11-2008, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by one8nine

haha well you might wanna edit it out then cause i pimp this pct thread link all over the board

Meant to be a PM.

**Flex-Appeal** · 08-12-2008, 09:40 PM

READ IT

**LivingToBeBig** · 08-20-2008, 04:28 AM

Can i quickly ask about using hgc and clomid together because i have heard it is counter productive?

**BadBarbie** · 08-20-2008, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by LivingToBeBig

Can i quickly ask about using hgc and clomid together because i have heard it is counter productive?

HCG babe.

Also, they aren't counter productive, they are used together, they do the same thing.

**LivingToBeBig** · 08-20-2008, 02:57 PM

soz stupid mistake i always get it mixed up for some reason. OK thanks for clearing that up.

**one8nine** · 08-23-2008, 09:49 AM

bump :-)

**lcstriker07** · 08-30-2008, 09:41 AM

Prolly read this thread 25 times by now. Bump for new guys!

**Kaoss22** · 08-31-2008, 08:24 PM

what you guys think of Letro and Clomid?

I gained a shit load of water , especially in my face and i know you said stuff about letro but i never had a problem. Took the bloat off really well.

**one8nine** · 08-31-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kaoss22

what you guys think of Letro and Clomid?

I gained a shit load of water , especially in my face and i know you said stuff about letro but i never had a problem.

used when? letro in pct?

**Kaoss22** · 08-31-2008, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

used when? letro in pct?

of course

**lcstriker07** · 09-03-2008, 06:16 PM

causes an estrogen rebound which could result in the bloat coming right back...

**Dukkit** · 09-04-2008, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Kaoss22

what you guys think of Letro and Clomid?

I gained a shit load of water , especially in my face and i know you said stuff about letro but i never had a problem. Took the bloat off really well.

arent you on TRT?

or am i confusing you with another pos

cuz that changes things

**BigandStrong** · 06-10-2009, 09:47 AM

until now all my pct would have been was nolva and clomid. but i am thinking i should have an AI on hand during cycle in case gyno appears. I've heard arimidex and letro are good but what about stuff like 6-oxo or nolvadex xt? is that sufficient enough?