PCT without SERM for low dose Test E. cycle?

**abuleh** · 02-11-2011, 02:41 AM

Hey guys,
In another forum I recently found a post about people that recommend a PCT without any SERMs for a low dose Test. E cycle 250mg e5d for 24 wks.

Their recommendation consists of:
Phyto L (basically chastetree berry) to stimulate the pituitary gland
High dose Vitamin C
High dose of Zinc
Tribulus
Pharm-tecs Tamoxen (This is not Nolva!!)

They base their argumentation on two things:

1.“If your body cannot recover from a low dose Test. Cycle then AAS is not for you”

2.SERMs will do more harm to your body than the actual cycle did itself.

I personally would never PCT without a SERM, not even for a 4wks prohormone cycle and I am trying to preach SERM usage to all the newbies which is difficult since it is some of the Mods that advertise the no SERM PCT.

I am now looking for a water proof argumentation, maybe with some scientific evidence to argue against it.

Who can help?

**Swifto** · 02-11-2011, 06:56 AM

What forum was this bullshit posted on? Elite Fitness I'm guessing.

If it is, you have no chance. Their Mods have vested interests in bullshit herbs as an alternative to PCT meds that work, such as SERMs. I have tried over there, only to have my post(s) deleted and edited by that fat f*cking c*nt Needto.

SERMs work and that pretty much all you need to know. I have posted tons of studies in the threads I have here (sticky's too) on how effective they are. Feel free to refer anyone to my threads/articles here.

There are also tons of studies done on women using Tamoxifen for over a decade with no adverse side effects. The total dose at the end of the 10+ year peroid is what matters and we (as steroid user's) will never get to anywhere near their total mg doses over extended peroids.

SERMs arnt ideal by any means, but they are the lesser of two evils in regards to HPTA restoration. Its risk vs. reward.

VitC should be a staple in all PCT because of its effects on cortisol.

Tribulas will NOT raise endogenous androgens at ANY dose or % of saponins. This has been argues for years and the one's who state it works are either supplement company owners, reps or are profiting somehow from its sale.

**abuleh** · 02-11-2011, 10:17 AM

Hey Swifto,

Thanks for your reply. I was hoping one of the vets would jump in with something to say. No it was not Elite Fitness. It is a german speaking board called ExtremBB. I already took some of the information from your posts and also the sticky's and translated them into German. Could you point me into some of the studies you mentioned?

I totally agree with you an SERM usage and I want to make sure non of the newbs think they can get away with herbs only by reading such posts.......

**abuleh** · 02-11-2011, 11:23 AM

I just found some very useful studies in your posts. What I didn't find is something about SERM toxicity and long term usage vs. short term in PCT.......

anybody?

**Swifto** · 02-11-2011, 12:08 PM

I have a sticky in the PCT Forum with multiple references.

Search:

Tamoxifen , Rolaxifene, Toremifene, Clomid which for what?

**Swifto** · 02-11-2011, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by abuleh

I just found some very useful studies in your posts. What I didn't find is something about SERM toxicity and long term usage vs. short term in PCT.......

anybody?

I have discussed this with a young member here who was scared of SERMs toxicity. It was with stevey.

You'll have to search for it.

**abuleh** · 02-12-2011, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I have discussed this with a young member here who was scared of SERMs toxicity. It was with stevey.

You'll have to search for it.

Ok, thanks mate.

**djm6464** · 02-13-2011, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

What forum was this bullshit posted on? Elite Fitness I'm guessing.

If it is, you have no chance. Their Mods have vested interests in bullshit herbs as an alternative to PCT meds that work, such as SERMs. I have tried over there, only to have my post(s) deleted and edited by that fat f*cking c*nt Needto.

SERMs work and that pretty much all you need to know. I have posted tons of studies in the threads I have here (sticky's too) on how effective they are. Feel free to refer anyone to my threads/articles here.

There are also tons of studies done on women using Tamoxifen for over a decade with no adverse side effects. The total dose at the end of the 10+ year peroid is what matters and we (as steroid user's) will never get to anywhere near their total mg doses over extended peroids.

SERMs arnt ideal by any means, but they are the lesser of two evils in regards to HPTA restoration. Its risk vs. reward.

VitC should be a staple in all PCT because of its effects on cortisol.

Tribulas will NOT raise endogenous androgens at ANY dose or % of saponins. This has been argues for years and the one's who state it works are either supplement company owners, reps or are profiting somehow from its sale.

^^^^man i knew id like it here.....need2 is bullshit, i ran into that guy over that forma product for pct, and how its gonna replace an ai and a serm.....unless you are retarded, dont read into that....and yeah theyll delete your stuff

yeah serms are somewhat toxic and carry sides, but so do all anabolics, so if you are into this, then deal with it
they are for sure not as bad as that crap beastdrol they sell over there either.........if dose normally, and not 300mg of clomid, your cool....acutally toremifene seems to be the mildest of the 3 big ones, and in limited studies has shown a positive effect on the hdl profile, which is usually compromised on cycle

lately i like torem stacked with a couple otc things like the above poster said, daa, trens res, maybe an no booster like gplc...people are on the sarms in pct bandwagon too now.....but no fkn way 24wks without a serm and some hcg for that matter.......oh wait, dont need2 have a hcg product too, made from their wive's piss....like cmon