AI or no AI

[J. Cole]

Hey everyone,

I am going to be cycling this summer and have my cycle down, but still have not decided on a definite PCT protocol.

My cycle consists of 10 weeks of Test Cyp at 400mg / week

For my PCT, I am going to be using nolvadex alone or possibly paired with torem I havent decided yet. I have been reading into some PCT compounds, and I have gathered that nolva and torem are affective at raising natural test levels back up, but do nothing to the estrogen in your body.

So my question is, should I be using an AI such as arimidex during PCT to lower my estrogen levels while the nolva increases the test back up, or will i be fine using just nolva and possibly torem?

[Bigd89]

Its always good to have it on hand. Might want to look into hcg as well for pct.

[Tlee8769]

Its always good to have it on hand. Might want to look into hcg as well for pct.

I agree i would do HCG 250iu 2-3 times a week and run aromasin 10mg eod with it go here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-A-with-Swifto.... This would be the best PCT for your situation just scroll down and read the info.

[livingwithdoms]

aromasin is a very good ai to have, just in case.

[J. Cole]

SO only use an AI on the cycle if estrogen sides arise?

[MuttonChop]

Please check your other thread for my post. Use AI during cycle no matter what. This will ensure that estrogen is under control during PCT. Read up on what HCG can do for you as you don't seem to be sold on its great effects. Pregnyl is so cheap that you shouldn't be worried about cost.

[Tlee8769]

Please check your other thread for my post. Use AI during cycle no matter what. This will ensure that estrogen is under control during PCT. Read up on what HCG can do for you as you don't seem to be sold on its great effects. Pregnyl is so cheap that you shouldn't be worried about cost.

I agree here if using HCG on cycle use an AI eod or ED all depends on sides you get.

[sn0rt]

This is more of a protocol i'd look into.

Weeks
1-12 Test Cyp @ 400mg EW (@200mg on Tuesday and Saturday)
1-12 HCG @ (1-3)125iu BW (4-9)250 BW (10-12)350/450iu BW (Adjustments as needed)
1-22 Exemestane @ 10mg EOD (Adjustments as needed)
14-20 Toremifene @ 100/100/60/60/30/30 or 120/100/60/60/30/30

*Even though you won't really see gains after 10 weeks, going 12 weeks will help solidify the gains you've made.
*HCG to keep your testicles from degeneration; therefore making recovery quicker.
*Exemstane specifically because it's not likely to give you the estrogen rebound since it's a type1 AI. All throughout the run and 2weeks after you finish with Toremifene. This is because the HCG aromatizes and you want to keep that in control, along with water retention and any other estrogenic sides. NOTE: You do not want to KILL your estrogen, simply keep it at a controlled level.
*Toremifene is of choice because studies suggest it is a better/safer SERM than Tamoxifene.

This is NOT written in stone, just a couple of cents on my behalf.
Best of luck to you..

[MuttonChop]

This is more of a protocol i'd look into.

Weeks
1-12 Test Cyp @ 400mg EW (@200mg on Tuesday and Saturday)
1-12 HCG @ (1-3)125iu BW (4-8)250 BW (9-12)350/450iu BW (Adjustments as needed)
1-22 Exemestane @ 10mg EOD (Adjustments as needed)
14-20 Toremifene @ 100/100/60/60/30/30

*Even though you won't really see gains after 10 weeks, going 12 weeks will help solidify the gains you've made.
*HCG to keep your testicles from degeneration; therefore making recovery quicker.
*Exemstane specifically because it's not likely to give you the estrogen rebound since it's a type1 AI. All throughout the run and 2weeks after you finish with Toremifene. This is because the HCG aromatizes and you want to keep that in control, along with water retention and any other estrogenic sides. NOTE: You do not want to KILL your estrogen, simply keep it at a controlled level.
*Toremifene is of choice because studies suggest it is a better/safer SERM than Tamoxifene.

This is NOT written in stone, just a couple of cents on my behalf.
Best of luck to you..

I really really like this. I was just wondering about a few things sn0rt:

1) Would it be better to start HCG after 2 or 3 weeks while on cycle? I read that HCG when your test is naturally high, will desensitize you to its effects.
2) Do you feel that only Tore is enough as PCT? Would Nolva only for PCT be that much worse? I ask because I have Nolva but no Tore atm.

@OP, not really hijacking your thread because I am sure that the info will be valuable to you too. I have been seeing some conservative approaches to PCT all of today, and I am just wondering whether I can save some coin.

[sn0rt]

I really really like this. I was just wondering about a few things sn0rt:

1) Would it be better to start HCG after 2 or 3 weeks while on cycle? I read that HCG when your test is naturally high, will desensitize you to its effects.
2) Do you feel that only Tore is enough as PCT? Would Nolva only for PCT be that much worse? I ask because I have Nolva but no Tore atm.

@OP, not really hijacking your thread because I am sure that the info will be valuable to you too. I have been seeing some conservative approaches to PCT all of today, and I am just wondering whether I can save some coin.

1) Some suggest to start a couple of weeks into the run, and some suggest from the beginning. That's why it's tapered in that manner, more or less attacks from both sides of the spectrum. If taking the first route, it's suggested to begin HCG no more than 14 days after first administration of Testosterone . Also note that studies suggest LH levels rapidly decrease by the 2nd day of steroid administration.

2)Well, you'll already be administering 2 compounds during PCT weeks, the Tore and Exeme. Many do take the Tamox+Torem route during PCT weeks, so it would be a personal choice. In a study done on Tamox, Tore and Rolax comparing HPTA restoration. Tamoxifen came out on top. In 8 weeks, 20mg/ED of Tamoxifen increased LH from 4.54 to 7.73 and Test from 496.59 to 835.06. Torem at 60mg/day increased LH from 4.05 to 5.05 and Test from 496.59 to 709.79. BUT the Torem dosage used for the study is about half of what is typically used during PCT. Tore increases pituitary sensitivity to GnRH, as Tamoxifen did. But Torem seems to improve lipid values and bone mineral density better than the other SERMS. Tamox is a 1st Gen SERM and Torem is a 2nd Gen, 2nd Gen is safer than 1st Gen.

Best regards,
-sn0rt