Worried Girlfriend...PCT...Please Help!

[worriedgirlfriend]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to drop in on your forum like this, but I'm very worried about my man. He is 41, in great health, but is going through a major testosterone crash at the moment. He was supposed to do short cycles of Sustane 300, but has been taking it for more than a year and I don't think he was giving himself the breaks that he was supposed to. He became very addicted to the gains.

We were good friends long before we started dating. When I first found out about him taking it, I was very worried, but he assured me that it was safe and he wouldn't be doing it long term. Here we are. He stopped taking it a month or so ago and has undergone an extreme testosterone crash. He is getting the back acne, very tired all of the time, working a ton so that adds to the stress, has been feeling sick a lot, ZERO sex drive <----so unlike him, etc.

I started to worry more after researching what he has been taking. He told me he was going to ask his doctor to take HGH instead so he didn't have to go through this, but he wasn't even educated about stuff to help with the crashes or anything until I told him. I started noticing he has become addicted to it when I'm out on a date with him and I grab his biceps while I'm walking beside him and he says things like, "What? I'm losing muscle mass, you notice it, don't you?" when I wasn't even thinking that and wondering how he even came up with that idea. I think it is taking a bad effect on is psyche. I should probably mention that he does have a history of drug abuse which he has been in recovery for now for 9 years.

Anyway, to get to the point and trying to de-womanize this message as much as possible, I told him that if he didn't throw all of that crap away that I was going to. Last week, before I said that, I noticed there was a full bottle of it still left in the drawer in the bathroom along with all of the injection tools. After I told him I was going to throw it away, today when I went to go look, the bottle was missing. I called him on the phone to find out that he took it and put it in his work bag. I feel like this was done behind my back. I feel betrayed by this....Please correct me if I shouldn't feel betrayed, but I do. However, I'm open to suggestions if you think I'm overreacting.

I don't mind helping him through this if he plans to change and become more healthy about the way he works out, but I do mind it when he does things behind my back and continues to do things that affects his health in a bad way which in turn affects our relationship.

Here are my questions for you:

1. What should I do about the him doing that behind my back? (he has never lied to me before and we are a very communicative, mature couple)

2. How can we boost his testosterone naturally? re: what natural supplements can he take? should he go back to the gym during this crash?

3. How long will it take for his body to recover roughly?

4. What can I do to help ease the process for him? I know he must feel awful about the whole thing because he says he does and apologizes heavily for his zero sex drive.

I could have more questions if I were more educated on this topic, but I've never heard of this kind of thing past all of the myths that float through society about steroids . We do want to have children some day so the possibility of him becoming infertile upsets me. I know steroids can be taken safely if a man/woman is educated about them, etc so please don't mistake my post as a means to discredit what you are doing here.

Thank you for reading. Your help is much appreciated. I'm so worried about him. If you can give me a step by step plan to help him, that would be great. It's so hard to get a plan going with so much information out there; I get confused.

Love N Light,
Worried Girlfriend~

[brad1986]

HE will most likely need to get on testosterone replacement therapy and need steroid injections for the rest of his life to be honest with you. What he needs to do is get off of test and get on clomid and nolva for 4 weeks. have him wait 2 months after that and get his bloodwork checked for hormone levels. Its worth a try to get off and run a post cycle therapy but at 41 and being on for a year without proper breaks he has a very good chance that his body will never naturally make test again. Get the clomid and nolva run in for a month then have him see an endocrinolagist

[worriedgirlfriend]

Thanks Brad. I appreciate the advice. I can buy clomid and nolva online? Where? What dosage should he take? Also, are there any other supplements or vitamins he should take with those during PCT?

He has been off of the Sustane for over a month now. He kept a vial on hand to inject here and there so he didn't crash completely, but I don't think that mattered.

What can I do about him going behind my back? What about him being obsessive about losing muscle? Thanks again. I'm freaking out over this and trying not to call him at work to talk about it; waiting until he gets home.

[Bonaparte]

First off, lets try to keep this on a scientific track for now. We can worry about feelings and all that stuff later.

What he needs is at least 10,000 IUs of HCG , and some Nolva and Clomid.
This is called an HPTA restart, which is a bit more aggressive than a normal PCT (Post Cycle Therapy ).
The Nolva and Clomid can be purchased from ar-r (the site sponsor). They are called Liquid Clomi and Liquid Tamox.
You'll have to order the other stuff from an overseas pharmacy (this isn't legal without a Rx, but they aren't controlled substances).

Have him take 1,000 IUs of HCG every other day.
Then begin the Nolva and Clomid as such:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20/20/20
Clomid: 50/50/50/50/50
Each slash mark represents a week, with the number being the daily dose in mg.

If you can find it and money is not a huge concern, get him some HMG as well to be run alongside the HCG.

Once you have all this stuff, have him discontinue the sustanon completely.
Start the HCG + HMG at this point, then begin the SERMs (Nolva and Clomid) 3 weeks after his last shot of test.

This cocktail of drugs is likely his best shot at recovering his natural test levels and balancing his hormones.

But this is all assuming that he wants to recover and come off (and it doesn't sound like that's something he wants to do, since he is a head-case with an addictive personality). Otherwise, his best bet is to educate himself on HRT/blast and cruise and try to find an endocrinologist that will prescribe him testosterone and monitor his health for life.

[worriedgirlfriend]

Thank you Bonaparte. Of all the forums I've been to today and getting banned for people thinking I'm a troll and all the misdirected information out there, I'm drained so I REALLY appreciate your help in this matter. Thank you SO much!!!

[worriedgirlfriend]

Is there a place I can buy the tablet form of those?

[worriedgirlfriend]

I see I can purchase the HCG from GNC, however, it doesn't say anything about "1,000 IU". I don't understand that dosage or how to get to it. So sorry for all of the questions.

[warchild]

First off, lets try to keep this on a scientific track for now. We can worry about feelings and all that stuff later.

What he needs is at least 10,000 IUs of HCG , and some Nolva and Clomid.
This is called an HPTA restart, which is a bit more aggressive than a normal PCT (Post Cycle Therapy ).
The Nolva and Clomid can be purchased from ar-r (the site sponsor). They are called Liquid Clomi and Liquid Tamox.
You'll have to order the other stuff from an overseas pharmacy (this isn't legal without a Rx, but they aren't controlled substances).

Have him take 1,000 IUs of HCG every other day.
Then begin the Nolva and Clomid as such:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20/20/20
Clomid: 50/50/50/50/50
Each slash mark represents a week, with the number being the daily dose in mg.

If you can find it and money is not a huge concern, get him some HMG as well to be run alongside the HCG.

Once you have all this stuff, have him discontinue the sustanon completely.
Start the HCG + HMG at this point, then begin the SERMs (Nolva and Clomid) 3 weeks after his last shot of test.

This cocktail of drugs is likely his best shot at recovering his natural test levels and balancing his hormones.

But this is all assuming that he wants to recover and come off (and it doesn't sound like that's something he wants to do, since he is a head-case with an addictive personality). Otherwise, his best bet is to educate himself on HRT/blast and cruise and try to find an endocrinologist that will prescribe him testosterone and monitor his health for life.

isnt that to high on the hcg dose? I thought no more then 300ius eod???

[brad1986]

I see I can purchase the HCG from GNC, however, it doesn't say anything about "1,000 IU". I don't understand that dosage or how to get to it. So sorry for all of the questions.

gnc doesnt have real hcg that is herbal substitutes (garbage). Check out ar-r up at the top for his hpta restart chems you can purchase them there. Hcg after the cycle is over is no good imo. Hcg can shut you down further and slow recovery hcg should have been used while he was on cycle. It seems as if he did no research on these chemicals befrore injecting them into his body... quite a shame cuz now he will be learning the hard way. After the month of nolva and clomid GET BLOODWORK DONE!!! The onluy way you can tell if his body is normal is through a hormone panel. I hate to be the bad guy but i Highly doubt he will end up recovering from such reckless use of anabolics and will probably need to get on a hormone replacement therapy.

[worriedgirlfriend]

Yikes! No, you aren't the bad guy. I appreciate the honesty.

How long without a break is considered wreckless? I really do not know about that aspect of it without asking him and so far, he hasn't seemed to be very educated. that's why I'm asking you. I do know that he has never done a PCT and so far, I don't know how long he has been using steroids . He didn't tell me until after we started dating even though we've been friends for 5 years.

I chose to stay with him and I still will as long as he takes the steps to get help for it. I'm no dummy..!

[SexySweetheart]

Sorry to say that I have zero clue about all the chem talk, but as far as the women-y stuff ...you prob dont have too many girlfriends you feel comfortable talking to about all this, so I'd like to offer some gurly perspective...

**this is not being said with judgement or cruelty~just as an out sider looking in and hoping your road wont be too difficult, but reminding you that nothing worth having is easy to get/keep or leave for**
Sorry to hear you hurting, glad to see your seeking outside advice,
...it sort of sounds like he became addicted to the results/chem and if thats the case, you may be setting yourself for a world of heart ache as soon as you throw around ultimatums/deadlines, cuz addiction just dont follow those rules. Hes not out to betray you, hurt you or himself...its just kind of a side effect of the situation. Dont take whats going on, as a personal thing that has anything to do with you. THIS HAS NOTHING TO WITH YOU.

Your concerned for his health and safety, the motherly side in you is screaming to intervene, save the one you love...but you cant.
Its all in his hands. Support/info/and expressing your feelings is all you can offer.

While you are supporting and ect I would mention to him that seeing him suffer and being uncomfortable with the situation has you at the point where you realized that you are unwilling to be in this form of a relationship (at least thats what I understood from reading your post) and while you love him and will be there for him, it will not be at your own expense...if you dont see him being proactive and devoted to a form of recovery you will have to leave the relationship. ...dont say this more than 1x or the statement loses its purpose and will start to sound like a threat (which its not meant to, its just you updating him on your thoughts/feelings and intentions) and dont say you’re going to leave him, cuz he will personalize it as your rejecting him, but really the truth is that you are not rejecting him/you love him...its the turn the relationship is taking that you refuse to commit to. AND DONT YOU DARE FEEL BAD ABOUT WANTING A HEALTHY RELATINSHIP. Sure you want a healthy relationship with him, but if he cant/wont do his part to keep you, why should you be expected to be unhappy and stay?

I think it would be unfair to keep all your concerns and feelings from him, cuz than you'll just get pissey /snappy when your around him and then you'll flip out 1day that you reach your limit and just leave him, but he wont know why or what’s going or how/have the chance to correct things.

If he does seek help, it sounds like a tuff & pricey road and he will prob have crappy days maybe slip ups...be patient.
Maybe keep in the back of your mind that his hormones are gonna be all over the place and hes a guy, they’re not used to it ~ hell, most girls cant manage all their hormones lol

All the info is def confusing. But dont make this YOUR burden/responsibility either. Support is 1 thing but if your doing all the work it will be easier for him to turn his frustrations towards you, he may start to resent you cuz he may feel pressured by you, and besides if he really wants to get this rite ~ he will be the one doing the work. IMO ((big hugs 2 you))

[Bonaparte]

Is there a place I can buy the tablet form of those?

No. They are freeze-dried peptide hormones which must be mixed with bacteriostatic water and injected.

I see I can purchase the HCG from GNC, however, it doesn't say anything about "1,000 IU". I don't understand that dosage or how to get to it. So sorry for all of the questions.

Anything you can buy OTC is BS. It needs to come from a pharmacy or steroid source.

isnt that to high on the hcg dose? I thought no more then 300ius eod???

Low doses are for maintenance. Once your testes are really shut down, you need large doses to get any response from them.
You should see the doses that some endos prescribe for male fertility (like 10,000IUs in a single shot).

[Bonaparte]

Is there a place I can buy the tablet form of those?

No. They are freeze-dried peptide hormones which must be mixed with bacteriostatic water and injected.

I see I can purchase the HCG from GNC, however, it doesn't say anything about "1,000 IU". I don't understand that dosage or how to get to it. So sorry for all of the questions.

Anything you can buy OTC is homeopathic crap for fat women (the HCG diet). It needs to come from a pharmacy or steroid source.

isnt that to high on the hcg dose? I thought no more then 300ius eod???

Low doses are for maintenance. Once your testes are really shut down, you need large doses to get any response from them.
You should see the doses that some endos prescribe for male fertility (like 10,000IUs in a single shot).

[brad1986]

Yikes! No, you aren't the bad guy. I appreciate the honesty.

How long without a break is considered wreckless? I really do not know about that aspect of it without asking him and so far, he hasn't seemed to be very educated. that's why I'm asking you. I do know that he has never done a PCT and so far, I don't know how long he has been using steroids . He didn't tell me until after we started dating even though we've been friends for 5 years.

I chose to stay with him and I still will as long as he takes the steps to get help for it. I'm no dummy..!

6 months plus on is wrekless and imo opinion any cycle done without a pct is reckless anyway.

[worriedgirlfriend]

Well, the site sponsor is out of Tamox. Where else can I get that? And where can I get the HCG ? I'd like to buy everything from one place dammit lol or should I not be picky like that??

Talked to my dude last night. He is into all of this, especially since it would cost $250 more just to go back and merely visit the doctr; that's not to include the blood test. We'd rather spend all that money on a sound PCT first. If that doesn't work, then we'll get the blood test.

He is so upset at himself for doing this. He didn't know it would be this bad. I guess he's a poster child on what not to do now so he can warn others lolol poor guy

[worriedgirlfriend]

Also, I found this site: http://www.nutragenics.net/bestbody%...cyclesupps.htm

Should he add some supplements to the PCT for maximum benefit? He is already taking a multivitamin.

[worriedgirlfriend]

OK. I found everything on purchase peptides site. Now, where to get the HCG ?

[PitMaster]

If he's been taking sustanon for that long. Then he already has a source. It is very possible that he can get his pct meds from his source. It is worth a look. I don't know how reliable his source is but it may be worth it for him to feel it out.

[worriedgirlfriend]

I found what he needs. His source is his doctor and he has to pay $250 just for the visit so we figured it would be cost effective to do it the other route. We are frugal people

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but my guy has been already off cycle for almost 6 weeks now. Is he supposed to take all of that stuff in a certain order or should he start it all at the same time given that he is already off cycle that long?

This is the last question, I promise lol I just want to make sure we get it right.

[PitMaster]

I ordered a legal research chemical, it's been more than 3 weeks and I still havent received it. How much time u got? I guess u gotta weigh your options. You could get lucky and get things sooner. U guys feeling lucky?