Attempting restart 1+ year after cycle. HCG yes or no?

**Ymcmb** · 01-11-2014, 02:40 AM

I'll try keep this brief because no one bothers otherwise..

I am 20 years old, did a cycle of prop over a year ago. 10 weeks long 750mg/week. Pct was clomid 100/50/50/50 nolva 40/20/20/20.

Only thing i did wrong was started pct too early (roids were still in my system)

I didnt do any bloodwork (yes foolish.) a year later im suffering depression, and just about every other sign of low T.
Went and got checked, free test was 286. LH was 3, Fh was 3 (<9.)

Classic secondary Hypogonadism in a male who has oterwise always been healthy. Doctor was useless so i am acquiring clomid to try a restart.

My question is, would HCG be at all beneficial, would it help remind my testicles what it is like to produce a lot of test, then i will add the clomid which will hopefully shoot my LH up. My thinking is that my testosterone has been low for a year, would this be equivalent to being on a long ass cycle and my nuts need a reminder? Or should i just do clomid??

Nuts are not atrophied (by my judgement anyway) and sperm count is normal

**Back In Black** · 01-11-2014, 03:43 AM

I'm sure Jim will be along later on buddy. Hang tight til he does.

**Bio-Active** · 01-11-2014, 07:10 AM

Can you post the reference ranges for the labs you had run? Testosterone and lh function and what time of day did you run the labs? What time did you get up the day if running labs?

**Ymcmb** · 01-11-2014, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Can you post the reference ranges for the labs you had run? Testosterone and lh function and what time of day did you run the labs? What time did you get up the day if running labs?

Got up at 7.30, bloods around 9.30am

Lh and fsh range was 0-9
Testosterone range was 260 - 740

Also my SHBG was 33 nmol/L (10-70) i that helps

**Bio-Active** · 01-11-2014, 11:10 AM

Sorry for the delayed response. I have some suggestions I will post up as soon as I get home from the gym

**Bio-Active** · 01-11-2014, 11:38 AM

Ok First off i would not suggest running hcg right now and this is why. You are producing lh and though it is low your testies are responding to it and keeping you in the low range. That is actually good news. HCG is going to shut down your lh production and though no doubt i think it will get the testies firing more the end result is we need to try to get you producing more lh otherwise you are going to be right back here again or maybe even lower as you will just need to recover again from the lh shut down. i suggest you move forward with the clomid low dose for 4-6 weeks and retest total testosterone and lh again. I have seen many restarts with using clomid at 25 mg ed for 4-6 weeks and some protocols with eod dosing.

**Ymcmb** · 01-11-2014, 07:01 PM

Thanks for the reply, that is along the lines what I was thinking. So basically, the balls are working 100% or not at all? Theres no possibility of them working at half capacity kind of thing that hcg would help to kickstart them?

I have already got some hcg and some clomid on the way. I will attempt clomid only restart, if you think that is best. Will save thee hcg.

I will update this with blood tests halfway through my clomid therapy, then again at the end.

Any other replies/advice appreciated

**Bio-Active** · 01-11-2014, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ymcmb

Thanks for the reply, that is along the lines what I was thinking. So basically, the balls are working 100% or not at all? Theres no possibility of them working at half capacity kind of thing that hcg would help to kickstart them?

I have already got some hcg and some clomid on the way. I will attempt clomid only restart, if you think that is best. Will save thee hcg.

I will update this with blood tests halfway through my clomid therapy, then again at the end.

Any other replies/advice appreciated

its not that your testies are working half way. they are doing there job as best they can with the amount of lh signaling them to work. Clomid will help stimulate lh function so keep us posted

**Ymcmb** · 02-27-2014, 08:55 PM

BUMP: Clomid restart was apparently a success. Just got my bloods back, free test is at 652. Range is (260-740)
My results on 07/01/14 were 283 with the same range test.
My total testosterone was 35.0 nmol/L, up from 13.7. (11.0-40.)

I am very happy about this. I have noticed a physical improvement, getting much stronger and bigger quickly, not tired all the time.
Mentally I still feel depressed though, I am always mentally drained which impairs my physical ability. I believe this may be because of the clomid, because it is a known depressive. and i have been on 50mg a day for over a month.

My question is should I continue the clomid for another 2 weeks and try max out my test levels then taper off?
My tapering off plan is to drop down to 25mg/a day for a week. Then 25mg EOD for a week. But should I do another 2 weeks of 50mg/day first, bringing my total time on clomid to a bit over 2 months? Or have I pretty much achieved all I am going to achieve at this point?

Of course the real test of success is when I get my bloods back after being off for a month or so...if my test levels will hold up on their own.

Thank you jim for the help and advice, I appreciate it.

Also my SHBG CAME IN AT 50 nmol/L, up from 32. Is this good? Range (10-70)

For some reason I forgot to get my LH and FSH tested, I will go get another test of those soon just so I know exactly where I'm at.

**Bio-Active** · 02-27-2014, 09:27 PM

Are you running nolvadex too?

**Ymcmb** · 02-27-2014, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Are you running nolvadex too?

No, should I be?

**Bio-Active** · 02-28-2014, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ymcmb

No, should I be?

I would run nolvadex alongside

**Megalodon6** · 02-28-2014, 08:47 AM

How long did you wait after coming off clomid to do your blood work? Are all of your low t symptoms gone?

**Bio-Active** · 02-28-2014, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Megalodon6

How long did you wait after coming off clomid to do your blood work? Are all of your low t symptoms gone?

he hasn't come off Clomid yet

**Megalodon6** · 02-28-2014, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

he hasn't come off Clomid yet

Haha it helps to read the entire thread lol

**Megalodon6** · 02-28-2014, 01:36 PM

Well ymcmb hopefully everything stays elevated after you stop taking clomid. Btw bib I love that avi

**tntate786** · 02-28-2014, 10:06 PM

When you say run nolva alongside it do you mean the entire time? and at what dosage?

This thread caught my eye as I am pretty sure I am having the same problems. Did a cycle a while back, did pct, no problems. A few months later I noticed some gyno, tried to take care of it but have never really gotten rid of it, and have had low-t symptoms that just get worse and worse.

**Bio-Active** · 02-28-2014, 10:28 PM

For longer cycles I recommend running Clomid for 4 weeks and tamox for 6. Clomid 100/50/50/50 tamox 40/40/20/20/20/20

**Ymcmb** · 03-01-2014, 05:48 PM

I can get some nolva probably, what is the reasoning for adding it though since clomid seems to do its job?

I have now dropped my clomid dose to 25mg, hopefully this will lessen the depressing effects of the drug, and it should also drop my SHBG a bit and give me more free test. I have heaps, is there any downside to staying on indefinitely like 3+ months?

**Bio-Active** · 03-01-2014, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ymcmb

I can get some nolva probably, what is the reasoning for adding it though since clomid seems to do its job?

I have now dropped my clomid dose to 25mg, hopefully this will lessen the depressing effects of the drug, and it should also drop my SHBG a bit and give me more free test. I have heaps, is there any downside to staying on indefinitely like 3+ months?

You need to try and let your body recover i wouldn't stay on for 3 months unless you were using clomid as a method of trt. Clomid and nolvadex work together very well during pct its the tried and proven method. How long have you been on the clomid?