How long till the vision sides start?

**Slide** · 12-11-2009, 06:07 PM

I started 100mg about three days ago and wanted to know when i can expect to start seeing any vision issues?

So far vision is normal.

thanks

**bass** · 12-11-2009, 10:44 PM

up to 10 days. good luck with your cycle...

**Okinawa_Power** · 12-12-2009, 03:29 AM

Kicked in about 7-10 day with me.....I was only taking 50mgs a day.......

**chucklesmcgee** · 12-12-2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Slide

I started 100mg about three days ago and wanted to know when i can expect to start seeing any vision issues?

So far vision is normal.

thanks

It's very subtle for me. Try glancing at fluorescent lights at night and see if they start looking like they have a colored tint.

**Slide** · 12-12-2009, 04:43 PM

What dose were you at Chuckles?

Okinawa did you find the 50mg to be effective?

**rusty44** · 12-12-2009, 04:56 PM

I had four in order of occurance:

1. Yellow tinted lighting seen while driving at night (got progressively worse) - 7 days
2. Trouble adjusting from light to dark (Walking into my apartment in the morning after walking the dog I could hardly see) - about 14 days
3. Closing my eyes at night before bed (I could see what appeared to be light in my peripheral vision) - about 14 days
4. Opening my eyes after sleeping, I could see dark splotchy demon like shapes right in my direct line of vision (Sometimes I couldn't see the alarm clock) - about14 days

None were intolerable...annoying...but not tolerable. I experienced everythig Bass did during his cycle (very useful log btw...thanks), but all of my sides were gone after one full week of discontinuing. I only ran SARMS for 4 weeks, and had no test supression so I didn't run nolva/clomid as a PCT.

**bass** · 12-13-2009, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by rusty44

I had four in order of occurance:

1. Yellow tinted lighting seen while driving at night (got progressively worse) - 7 days
2. Trouble adjusting from light to dark (Walking into my apartment in the morning after walking the dog I could hardly see) - about 14 days
3. Closing my eyes at night before bed (I could see what appeared to be light in my peripheral vision) - about 14 days
4. Opening my eyes after sleeping, I could see dark splotchy demon like shapes right in my direct line of vision (Sometimes I couldn't see the alarm clock) - about14 days

None were intolerable...annoying...but not tolerable. I experienced everythig Bass did during his cycle (very useful log btw...thanks), but all of my sides were gone after one full week of discontinuing. I only ran SARMS for 4 weeks, and had no test supression so I didn't run nolva/clomid as a PCT.

It’s amazing how similar the effects are on everyone who ran it, the demon shadows freaked me out though! but at least I know it’s not just me...

**Okinawa_Power** · 12-13-2009, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Slide

What dose were you at Chuckles?

Okinawa did you find the 50mg to be effective?

I was at that dose because I was also taking X-Tren and E-Stane.......It kept my fat down during the cycle. Good Stuff...

**Bigzy** · 12-13-2009, 12:38 PM

From reading the side effects it seams as the protein in the eye began to increase which may have caused a larger amount of "floaters" in the eye.

These floaters are actually very small. However when they pass between your retina the shadow cast by them from light makes them appear larger. Because you had noticed them much more than ordinary floaters could mean several things. One, there was a large protein build up, or two they are not floaters and the substance began "eating" away of the eye tissue. Luckily the side effects left after discontinued use. Hopefully the product didn't speed up macular degeneration.

I recommend taking a eye exam. I recommend taking a visual field test and dilation so the doctor can determine if any internal ocular problems have occurred such as macular degeneration. Damage to the eye can be irreversible, so play it safe.

**toothache** · 12-14-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by rusty44

I only ran SARMS for 4 weeks, and had no test supression so I didn't run nolva/clomid as a PCT.

Rusty, did your strength stay the same when you came off?

**Slide** · 12-14-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by toothache

Rusty, did your strength stay the same when you came off?

x2? Anyone notice any loss in mass when they stopped?

**rusty44** · 12-14-2009, 04:22 PM

My strength on most excercises stayed the same (same training/off S4/more protein for about a month), but what I found I was that I was way more exhausted after a 1 hour session in the gym towards the last week and a half...so much so, that hopping on the treadmill afterwards was too much. I went from a 4 day split to a three day split doing legs and shoulders on Fri. That seemed more manageable. I am back up to a 4 day split since last week, and feeling back to normal with the energy levels.

I ran S4 @100mg/day along with a maintenance diet (not a mass gain or a fat loss diet) to see if I gained mass or lost fat from the compound alone. I noticed more of a cutting effect than a mass gain effect, so I started a cutting program/diet after as opposed to upping the calories during this time to neutralize any increased catabolism coming off the S4. I did not notice much if any. In retrospect, I would have gone longer than 4 weeks. However it did what I wanted it to do...I have noticeably more definition in my abs and shoulders. Was it worth what I paid? Yes. I got on during a 60% off sale.

What I can tell you for sure is that when I got my 2 bottles of S4, one did not have the same amount of liquid as the other. It was quite noticeable. So I shorted myself a dose on Day 30. Quite annoying. So be advised.

**rusty44** · 12-14-2009, 04:42 PM

Also keep in mind the iris of your eye is a sphincter muscle with circular fibers....it controls how much light is let in to the eye...not sure what kind of androgen receptors are in there or the quantity. What ever it is in S4 that binds to those receptors might be responsible for the poor light to dark adjustment. Just a guess.

**bass** · 12-14-2009, 11:03 PM

i still have my strength, if not more. i just injured my left elbow due to lifting more than usual, very stupid! but i agree with you Rusty44, i noticed more fat loss effect than muscle gain, and that was my goal as well. reading some of the posts regarding the long term sides is worrying me a little, i will keep reading until we find an answer as to what is really causing the vision problem and if it will be long term negative side...

**rusty44** · 12-15-2009, 01:54 AM

Bass, are you still having any vision problems?

**bass** · 12-15-2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by rusty44

Bass, are you still having any vision problems?

nope, 100% back to normal...

**toothache** · 12-15-2009, 02:13 PM

This is all very good info about sarms .

thanks to everyone for logging their experiences.

**Carlito B** · 12-15-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Slide

I started 100mg about three days ago and wanted to know when i can expect to start seeing any vision issues?

So far vision is normal.

thanks

5 or 7 days.

**endus** · 12-16-2009, 01:05 PM

I got the side on 3rd day (at 50mg per day).

**Slide** · 12-16-2009, 02:08 PM

so far i am on day 8 and have no vision sides, hopefully they will be mild for me.

**bass** · 12-16-2009, 05:46 PM

thats great! did you get your S4 from a good source?

**AstheticKing** · 12-16-2009, 06:38 PM

anyone take arimidex or letro on s4?

**disco_paul** · 12-16-2009, 06:47 PM

I have been on 50mg a day for 2 weeks and can just notice some vision sides.

Nothing much, can only really notice it in situations where the eyes would struggle to adapt anyway, like right now in a darkish room, looking at a bright screen then looking at the keyboard. Things are very slightly not as usual, but to be honest if I wasnt looking for it I wouldnt notice it.

As far as anabolic effect, seems pretty good. Some fat loss and biceps have reinflated a bit after loosing some from my last AAS cycle of test and tren .

**magaton** · 12-17-2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by disco_paul

I have been on 50mg a day for 2 weeks and can just notice some vision sides.

Nothing much, can only really notice it in situations where the eyes would struggle to adapt anyway, like right now in a darkish room, looking at a bright screen then looking at the keyboard. Things are very slightly not as usual, but to be honest if I wasnt looking for it I wouldnt notice it.

As far as anabolic effect, seems pretty good. Some fat loss and biceps have reinflated a bit after loosing some from my last AAS cycle of test and tren.

How are you dosing that 50mg? Once daily or broken up?

**toothache** · 12-17-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by magaton

How are you dosing that 50mg? Once daily or broken up?

Most people break up the doses because the half life is so short.

**Slide** · 12-17-2009, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by bass

thats great! did you get your S4 from a good source?

I believe so, I work pretty hard to get good gear. I got my S4 from the same source everyone was using before lyon got his. I just got a bottle of his Lyon's too, so when i finish this bottle i will use his.

I have to say that so far i have been impressed. They are mild for sure, at least at my dose, but i have noticed the following:

1) Slightly increased libido
2) increased fat loss
3) increased rep range. I am on a light weight high rep section of my training. I have noticed the last few workouts that i am able to train harder and do those last 3 or 4 reps that i couldn't have before.

So far i really like them.

**magaton** · 12-17-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by toothache

Most people break up the doses because the half life is so short.

So whats best, 2 or 3 times a day?

**bass** · 12-17-2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by magaton

So whats best, 2 or 3 times a day?

I am not an expert, but my recommendation is as follows,

50mgs per day, split into 2 at 6 hours apart, one shot before workout and one shot after workout, maintain the 6 hours apart.

75mgs per day, split into 3 and 6 hours apart, one shot in the morning, one before workout and one after workout, maintain the 6 hours apart.

100mgs per day, split into 4 and 4 hours apart, one shot in the morning, another at noon, third before training and the last one after training, maintain the 4 hours apart.

anything over 100mgs per day is a waste in my opinion and the sides will get worse.

**magaton** · 12-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Good info, thanks bass

**rusty44** · 12-18-2009, 08:13 PM

Keep in mind....its taken orally. The fact that it leaves a risidual in your mouth and in the syringe leads me to believe that unless people are shooting it directly into the back of their throats and swallowing, they won't get an accurate dosage. For this reason, I split my 100mgs up 50mg twice a day (despite what the half life would suggest as the most logical application)

**bass** · 12-19-2009, 01:19 AM

that’s what i did, i squirted well onto my throat and flushed it down with a glass of water immediately, but still go the vision sides...

**Sheven** · 12-19-2009, 11:10 AM

some guys get the vision sides some guys never experienced that even on a 200mg dose.
i experience vision sides and bad headakhe from 100mg clomid after just few days.

**disco_paul** · 12-19-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by magaton

How are you dosing that 50mg? Once daily or broken up?

Twice a day. On a teaspoon, with OJ ready to immediatly wash it down.

**bass** · 12-19-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by disco_paul

Twice a day. On a teaspoon, with OJ ready to immediatly wash it down.

teaspoon! that won't give you accurate measurement...use a syringe.

**disco_paul** · 12-20-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by bass

teaspoon! that won't give you accurate measurement...use a syringe.

hehe, yes, I do use a syringe, but not directly into my mouth, onto a teaspoon first so I can dose accurately.

I put 4 days worth, 2ml into the syringe from the bottle, so that can be kept in a convenient place.

**bass** · 12-20-2009, 04:16 PM

LOL...thats a good idea bro...

**endus** · 12-21-2009, 11:26 AM

I've tried several dosage frequency and it really didn't matter. Once in your system, it doesn't provide any added benefit if you take it before or after workout. This is not a stim.

For me, because I take stim (A-AKG/Spump/Caffeine) before workout, I take it at other time to avoid stomache issue (PEG or alcohol bother my stomach).

**Slide** · 12-22-2009, 03:41 PM

Over two weeks in. liking the results and visions sides are VERY minor. If i didn't know about them i would have never noticed.

Lucky i dont get the vision sides bad i guess... that makes up the fact that i get gyno when a girl sneezes on me...