LGD-4033 - Safe?!

[Steroidman99]

This stuff is regarded as safe, and this study is often quoted to support this claim
The Safety, Pharmacokinetics, and Effects of LGD-4033, a Novel Non********* Oral, Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator, in Healthy Young Men

But the actual results of this study do not indicate any "safety" at all.

- Testosterone dropped by 300 ng/dl after mere 3 weeks on 1 mg daily. That's more than 50%! And the bodybuilding doses start at 5 mg daily!
- SHBG dropped by 25 mmol/L on the same dose (which is something like -70%). This means that almost all your androgens will be in the free form. This fact alone is not good news with regard to the effect on hair and skin.
- HDL cholesterol decreased, LDL cholesterol markedly increased. Again, not good news with regard to cardiovascular risk. The same effect can be observed on oral steroids .

I thought about testing this stuff, but now I think that it would be better to stay with the good old Andarine (S4). The ocular side effects are unpleasant, but testosterone suppression is minimal, cholesterol is not messed up, and liver enzymes are OK.

[Juced_porkchop]

s4 also causes shutdown.. they ll do to a degree.. ill take osta or ldg anyday over S4 IMO
use atleas a t base or a t cycle and use the ldg in place of a conventional aas oral IMO
still a much better option than oral aas IMO

[AR's King Silabolin]

Guess u ment that hdl will decrease, which is bad. If it raised, it actually a good thing. But it will n ot. It will put u in the 20s within week.
It quiet safe. Only think compared to aas which are the same is hdl-lowering. Not toxic, easy recovery, no estrogen/prolactin. No hct-issues. Never encountered any skin/hear problemes with it.
But its damned anabolic . Just do a cholestrolfriendly diett with a trtdose and you will have a safe alternatie to aas.

Where did you read s4 doesent affect cholestrol. From a supplier site? All ar-stumulants tax cholestrol. They go hand in hand. Never saw anything else.

[Steroidman99]

Guess u ment that hdl will decrease, which is bad. If it raised, it actually a good thing. But it will n ot. It will put u in the 20s within week.
It quiet safe. Only think compared to aas which are the same is hdl-lowering. Not toxic, easy recovery, no estrogen/prolactin. No hct-issues. Never encountered any skin/hear problemes with it.
But its damned anabolic . Just do a cholestrolfriendly diett with a trtdose and you will have a safe alternatie to aas.

Where did you read s4 doesent affect cholestrol. From a supplier site? All ar-stumulants tax cholestrol. They go hand in hand. Never saw anything else.

Yes, HDL decreased. I corrected it. In other words, these are the same negative changes like on oral steroids . And it was a "baby dose"!

I made several cycles with S4 in the past, mostly as a PCT after Anavar cycles (40-50 mg daily). At the beginning, my testosterone was usually nearly zero and my cholesterol was totally messed up, but the values were slowly returning back to normal on S4.

The only solo cycle with SARMs was in summer 2012. I combined Ostarine (10-15 mg) with S4 (30-40 mg). My liver values were elevated, my cholesterol was bad (although not as bad as after Anavar cycles) and my testosterone was 50 ng/dl (which is very low, but much higher than on Anavar, when it was sometimes nearly zero). I ascribe it to Ostarine, because I made a short PCT with Ostarine in the spring of 2012 (20-30 mg daily) and my liver values were through the roof. My cholesterol levels did not improve either.

But you are true that I don't have any clear evidence for the independent effects of S4.

[Juced_porkchop]

Yes, HDL decreased. I corrected it. In other words, these are the same negative changes like on oral steroids . And it was a "baby dose"!

I made several cycles with S4 in the past, mostly as a PCT after Anavar cycles (40-50 mg daily). At the beginning, my testosterone was usually nearly zero and my cholesterol was totally messed up, but the values were slowly returning back to normal on S4.

The only solo cycle with SARMs was in summer 2012. I combined Ostarine (10-15 mg) with S4 (30-40 mg). My liver values were elevated, my cholesterol was bad (although not as bad as after Anavar cycles) and my testosterone was 50 ng/dl (which is very low, but much higher than on Anavar, when it was sometimes nearly zero). I ascribe it to Ostarine, because I made a short PCT with Ostarine in the spring of 2012 (20-30 mg daily) and my liver values were through the roof. My cholesterol levels did not improve either.

But you are true that I don't have any clear evidence for the independent effects of S4.

dude... a SERM is not the same as a SARM!
use a SERM for PCT (tamox and/or clomid)
a SARM will hurt PCT/recovery..

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Why do people use SARMS instead of good ole test?
Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Steroidman99]

I said that my blood levels were always returning to normal. When they were close to normal, I stopped using Andarine and I used anastrozole for few weeks.

[Juced_porkchop]

I said that my blood levels were always returning to normal. When they were close to normal, I stopped using Andarine and I used anastrozole for few weeks.

anastrozole is and AI, not a SERM. i dont rec AI in pct, and deff not a a pct. just because some research on people WITH natty test and off any aas was shown to have a slight increase in test levels when given anastrozole doesnt mean it will relate the same way to us... they where producing test so ofcourse if you limit the conversion to estro there would be a bit more test left alone meaning a bit more in the pool. that IS NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same thing for someone in PCT trying to recover PRODUCTION of test.

and they would have came to normal faster without a SARM, andarine causes shutdown plan and simple.
whats your stats?

[Steroidman99]

Nine days on 1.5 mg LGD-4033 daily - and I already feel suppressed like during a cycle with Anavar . But so far, no negative androgenetic effects like acne, to which I am very sensitive. The next week, I will see, if my feelings are real. I will have a blood test on testosterone and SHBG.

Originally, I planned 3 weeks on this dose, but I will probably shorten it. I am very prone to testosterone suppression. In fact, during one of my Anavar cycles, my testosterone levels were only 11 ng/dl - 2% of the average level. Furthermore, the last time I used SARMs (S4+Ostarine) four years ago, my hair loss renewed after 16 years again. Now I must use dutasteride to my daily minoxidil applications.

These drugs can be pretty insidious. When you are using them, they can actually help you to regrow hair, because they compete with DHT (dihydrotestosterone) at androgen receptors. This has happened to me, too. But during the cycle, DHT levels do not decrease as much as testosterone levels, and SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) decreases very dramatically. As a result, after the cycle you are hit by very high levels of free DHT. This can probably explain my experience. It was really insane, because during the cycle, it was the first time when I experienced some hair regrowth, but two months later, everything turned upside down and my hair line started to recede.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Nine days on 1.5 mg LGD-4033 daily - and I already feel suppressed like during a cycle with Anavar . But so far, no negative androgenetic effects like acne, to which I am very sensitive. The next week, I will see, if my feelings are real. I will have a blood test on testosterone and SHBG.

Originally, I planned 3 weeks on this dose, but I will probably shorten it. I am very prone to testosterone suppression. In fact, during one of my Anavar cycles, my testosterone levels were only 11 ng/dl - 2% of the average level. Furthermore, the last time I used SARMs (S4+Ostarine) four years ago, my hair loss renewed after 16 years again. Now I must use dutasteride to my daily minoxidil applications.

These drugs can be pretty insidious. When you are using them, they can actually help you to regrow hair, because they compete with DHT (dihydrotestosterone) at androgen receptors. This has happened to me, too. But during the cycle, DHT levels do not decrease as much as testosterone levels, and SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) decreases very dramatically. As a result, after the cycle you are hit by very high levels of free DHT. This can probably explain my experience. It was really insane, because during the cycle, it was the first time when I experienced some hair regrowth, but two months later, everything turned upside down and my hair line started to recede.

1,5 mg??....you are supposed to use 10 mg. Cant imagine your dose will be anabolic .

[Steroidman99]

1,5 mg??....you are supposed to use 10 mg. Cant imagine your dose will be anabolic.

10 mg would be out of question. My testosteone would be zero after seven days.

My idea was to try this stuff and to find out, if I can gain and keep something after short (max. 3 weeks), low-dose cycles. I won't struggle with my testosterone levels for half a year - which was the usual story after 6-7 week cycles with Anavar . And the use of any testosterone boosters is out of question, too. They would most probably trigger my hair loss again.

If I see that LGD-4033 is not useful for me at these doses, then I must return to the only anabolic stuffs that are possible in my case - creatine and Ipamorelin.

[Juced_porkchop]

10 mg would be out of question. My testosteone would be zero after seven days.

My idea was to try this stuff and to find out, if I can gain and keep something after short (max. 3 weeks), low-dose cycles. I won't struggle with my testosterone levels for half a year - which was the usual story after 6-7 week cycles with Anavar . And the use of any testosterone boosters is out of question, too. They would most probably trigger my hair loss again.

If I see that LGD-4033 is not useful for me at these doses, then I must return to the only anabolic stuffs that are possible in my case - creatine and Ipamorelin.

then whats the friggin point? either do a decent cycle WITH A TEST BASE and accept shutdown or dont do it at all. your basically hainging on to HRT levels of anabolicness and putting your body through a hormonal rollar coaster for nothing.

dont do oral only cycles, var or SARMS IMO.
and its not healthy to be with no to low test. your body needs it for many functions. just do is right or avoid aas and sarms if temp shutdown is sucha concern...

[Steroidman99]

then whats the friggin point? either do a decent cycle WITH A TEST BASE and accept shutdown or dont do it at all. your basically hainging on to HRT levels of anabolicness and putting your body through a hormonal rollar coaster for nothing.

dont do oral only cycles, var or SARMS IMO.
and its not healthy to be with no to low test. your body needs it for many functions. just do is right or avoid aas and sarms if temp shutdown is sucha concern...

I will NEVER do a cycle with a test base. Do you understand? I have been on anti-hairloss treatments for 20 years and I won't lose hair because of a temporary muscle gain. I am extremely sensitive to everything androgenic . The harshest steroid that I was taking was Winstrol . And my face was covered by such big red cysts that I couldn't leave my house.

[Steroidman99]

My blood test on 24th August 2016:

Testosterone : 577,7 ng/dL
SHBG: 49,7 nmol/L
Total cholesterol: 4,9 nmol/L
HDL-cholesterol: 0,97 nmol/L
LDL-cholesterol 3,05 nmol/L
Triglycerides: 1,50 nmol/L

Between 29th August-12th September I was using 1.5 mg LGD-4033 daily.

My blood test on 19th September 2016:

Testosterone: 225,8 ng/dL
SHBG: 16,6 nmol/L
Total cholesterol: 5,0 nmol/L
HDL-cholesterol: 0,82 nmol/L
LDL-cholesterol 3,72 nmol/L
Triglycerides: 1,03 nmol/L

Cholesterol off the charts, testosterone off the charts, SHBG off the charts. Now I understand, why I started to lose hair after a SARM cycle four years ago! My SHBG must have been nearly zero.

This is not a stuff for me. Never more!!! I 'm ordering Ipamorelin again.

[InternalFire]

My blood test on 24th August 2016:

Testosterone : 577,7 ng/dL
SHBG: 49,7 nmol/L
Total cholesterol: 4,9 nmol/L
HDL-cholesterol: 0,97 nmol/L
LDL-cholesterol 3,05 nmol/L
Triglycerides: 1,50 nmol/L

Between 29th August-12th September I was using 1.5 mg LGD-4033 daily.

My blood test on 19th September 2016:

Testosterone: 225,8 ng/dL
SHBG: 16,6 nmol/L
Total cholesterol: 5,0 nmol/L
HDL-cholesterol: 0,82 nmol/L
LDL-cholesterol 3,72 nmol/L
Triglycerides: 1,03 nmol/L

Thanks for posting this, this only shows how dangerous SARMS are and how superior a good old testosterone alone is

[Steroidman99]

Hmmm... I don't think that steroids are better. To the contrary, they are (mostly) worse. You should see my cholesterol after a cycle with Anavar ... And after one Anavar cycle, my testosterone was only 11 ng/dL! (Yes, no typing error. It was virtually zero.) It took 2 years, until my testosterone fully recovered (after 4 years of steroid use ). This is a serious reason, why I don't want to use any testosterone-suppresing drugs again.



But I am primarily worried about hair loss and I don't want to repeat the hair ordeal again. And I should add that my cholesterol was not good even before this LGD-4033 cycle. In July, I was using 25% extract of ursolic acid from loquat and my blood values were completely messed up.

Unfortunately, there is no "Holy Grail" of anabolic drugs. So far, Ipamorelin has been the safest stuff that I have ever taken, but it also has its own risks. Most notably tumor promotion (which is quite scary).

[Juced_porkchop]

Hmmm... I don't think that steroids are better. To the contrary, they are (mostly) worse. You should see my cholesterol after a cycle with Anavar... And after one Anavar cycle, my testosterone was only 11 ng/dL! (Yes, no typing error. It was virtually zero.) It took 2 years, until my testosterone fully recovered (after 4 years of steroid use ). This is a serious reason, why I don't want to use any testosterone-suppresing drugs again.



But I am primarily worried about hair loss and I don't want to repeat the hair ordeal again. And I should add that my cholesterol was not good even before this LGD-4033 cycle. In July, I was using 25% extract of ursolic acid from loquat and my blood values were completely messed up.

Unfortunately, there is no "Holy Grail" of anabolic drugs. So far, Ipamorelin has been the safest stuff that I have ever taken, but it also has its own risks. Most notably tumor promotion (which is quite scary).

dude ORALS are you issues... oral aas are harsh on body and many SARMS are also. when we say steroid we mean injects that are not liver toxic liek test...
you could ge 20x the results with a simpel test cycle and be putting your body under less harm and stress. sure there will be shutdown but thats what pct is there for, to help..
you may think your doing less damage but your actually doing more and for even less results..

out it this way i have been using aas for many years and i avoid orals overall. MAYBE a var run every 2-3 years...
why? because I know whats not healthy and what you are doing is not...

tumor promotion? look cancar feeds on out bodies resources. hgh or ipam would feed the beast if you already have that issue. but its not going to MAKE cancer.
i mean no dissrespect but you only half understand what you think you do regarding aas and peps...
I wish you the best, hopefully you will listen to someone..

[InternalFire]

well bud, I wasn't referring to orals, I was just referring to SARMs being inferior to Test for its effectiveness delivering results vs damage ratio for the purpose used.

1) You should never run oral cycle only ( the damage you got was what was coming from var only cycle. If you had test as a base even on low dose, had HCG along with test for the duration of cycle, then did proper PCT, very likelly you would have never experienced such long shutdown, but at this point we can only speculate.)

2) When running test, never skip on HCG and never run longer than 12-14 week cycles, also proper PCT is a must, therefore you should experience least suppression after all is done and PCT is over

3) You should follow strict healthy lifestyle and diet with lots of healthy fats, plenty of hydration and no processed foods/sugars etc

4) Daily cardio to help maintain healthy cholesterol levels is a good thing as a staple

5) Liver protection is a no exception, be it SARMs, ASS, or just casual night city life, few beers or shots of alcohol - love your liver, give it some love, take care of it. NAC, UDCA, TUDCA, Liv52, and few other things on a daily is a must when running anything artificial that has to pass trough the liver. At least have and take NAC every day.



may I ask, do you or did you try to supplement with high dose of omega fish oils that are rich in DHA/EPA ?

Yes, its almost impossible to find a drug that causes least damage with good muscle building properties, unless we talk about insulin , which is deadly dangerous when used wrong... hence I would say diet, and manipulating carbs is the best bet, providing you have at least half decent test levels after all you ran.

[Steroidman99]

well bud, I wasn't referring to orals, I was just referring to SARMs being inferior to Test for its effectiveness delivering results vs damage ratio for the purpose used.

1) You should never run oral cycle only ( the damage you got was what was coming from var only cycle. If you had test as a base even on low dose, had HCG along with test for the duration of cycle, then did proper PCT, very likelly you would have never experienced such long shutdown, but at this point we can only speculate.)

If I had run testosterone, the suppression would have been even harsher and I would have looked like Kojak now.

2) When running test, never skip on HCG and never run longer than 12-14 week cycles, also proper PCT is a must, therefore you should experience least suppression after all is done and PCT is over

I didn't use HcG, only anti-estrogens...which only mask testosterone suppression. They don't stimulate LH and FSH enough.

3) You should follow strict healthy lifestyle and diet with lots of healthy fats, plenty of hydration and no processed foods/sugars etc

4) Daily cardio to help maintain healthy cholesterol levels is a good thing as a staple

5) Liver protection is a no exception, be it SARMs, ASS, or just casual night city life, few beers or shots of alcohol - love your liver, give it some love, take care of it. NAC, UDCA, TUDCA, Liv52, and few other things on a daily is a must when running anything artificial that has to pass trough the liver. At least have and take NAC every day.

My liver did not suffer much even from high Anavar doses. Ostarine was a different case.

may I ask, do you or did you try to supplement with high dose of omega fish oils that are rich in DHA/EPA ?

Yes, its almost impossible to find a drug that causes least damage with good muscle building properties, unless we talk about insulin, which is deadly dangerous when used wrong... hence I would say diet, and manipulating carbs is the best bet, providing you have at least half decent test levels after all you ran.

I am already tired of all those hormonal and lipid fluctuations, so I won't use any steroid or SARM in the future - unless it has really miraculous properties. But it is hard to believe that such a stuff will ever be developed.

[InternalFire]

Well you're pretty much sorted then! Stay clear of everything. You gotta pay to play, thats the rule of this game and not all of us get away lucky.

Sent from my eyePhone

[AntiFreeze]

LGD caused me some suppression, and it totally killed my sperm production. It took several months of PCT to recover...but I started at 10mg..moved up to 20mg daily. I wont do that again. Gains made weren't all that impressive..just a few lbs..not worth the hassle.