Is 10 mins of mid-high intensity cardio enough to shed some fat?

[x_SANDMAN_x]

Considering im dieting right, is 10 mins of cardio after workout enough to loose some fat while maintaining muscle? I work out 4 days a week and on my non-workout days, i will do 10 mins of jogging in the morning on an empty stomach

[Nooomoto]

10 minutes isn't going to do much of anything man. Thats about as long as you need to warm up.

[Times Roman]

fat begins to be metabolized after 20 minutes of cardio. low to medium intensity for 60 minutes is what i do, 3x a week

[songdog]

no bro and depending on your age you require more time.

[tall76]

Yes 10 mins is a warm up- go for 45-60 mins per session

[SportbikerKid]

Shedding fat is all about calories in vs calories burned. Cardio is definitely not necessary for a cut, but it is a good idea if you're worried about cardiovascular health.

[slfmade]

Shedding fat is all about calories in vs calories burned. Cardio is definitely not necessary for a cut, but it is a good idea if you're worried about cardiovascular health.

OP....do yourself a favor and do some cardio. There's a very good reason that every vet here will tell you to do cardio on a cutting diet. As other knowledgeable people have said 45-60min is good for Low intensity/moderate intensity. If you're doing HIIT...maybe 20-30min.

Good luck and take opinions like the one above with a grain of salt.

[lmmalone]

10 minutes could be enough if your doing HIIT. And going extremely hard. Thats not including warm up and cool down though. Which would add at least another 20+ minutes.

Get moving amigo

[FireGuy]

Shedding fat is all about calories in vs calories burned. Cardio is definitely not necessary for a cut, but it is a good idea if you're worried about cardiovascular health.

Very good point and one that should be taken with more than "a grain of salt". The essential element to reducing bodyfat is creating a calorie deficit. You can create this anyway you like with cardio being the popular choice among most (including myself). Many people on very low carb or keto diets can get very lean with little or no cardio though.

[slfmade]

Very good point and one that should be taken with more than "a grain of salt". The essential element to reducing bodyfat is creating a calorie deficit. You can create this anyway you like with cardio being the popular choice among most (including myself). Many people on very low carb or keto diets can get very lean with little or no cardio though.

Of course you can lose fat by creating a calorie deficit. However, the last thing I would tell somebody on this board would be to eat 1000 calories a day and sit on there ass....The OP said he wanted to maintain his muscle and lose fat. It makes sense to me if you wanted the absolute best results you would eat the needed calories daily to maintain muscle and do cardio to lose the fat.

To say that "cardio is definitely not necessary to cut" seems a little irresponsible to me. I'm sure a select few have done it, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to eat your maintenance calories and do cardio to burn the fat if losing fat and maintaining muscle were your goals? Seems that most people I know including myself that have done low carb diets all lost muscle in the process. The exception being CKD however; from what I've read the calories are kept and maintanence levels with a huge carb load at the end of the week. The CKD also calls for cardio and 4 days a week training as well. I respect your opinion swifto. Tell me if I'm wrong, but everything this board has taught me has told me otherwise.

[FireGuy]

I am a firm believer in cardio for fat loss as well as overall health. The point I was trying to make is fat loss is all about creating a calorie deficit. You can do this and still eat a decent amount of food. Many people on here have TDEE's over 3000 without implementing any cardio. The other issue that wasnt brought up was the OP's definition of "lean". Most people can get in the 10-12% bodyfat range (considered lean by some) with nothing more than clean eating and working out. Going under that % is usually going to require some cardiovascular work. I have several bodybuilder friends who walk around under 10% bodyfat and do ZERO cardio. Unfortunately I am not one of them.

Anyways, point being I 100% agree with your post but I wanted to make the sure the other posters opinion wasnt dismissed as it had value as well and addressed the basic premise behind fat loss.

Oh...I am not Swift either, he's much smarter than me :-)

[slfmade]

I am a firm believer in cardio for fat loss as well as overall health. The point I was trying to make is fat loss is all about creating a calorie deficit. You can do this and still eat a decent amount of food. Many people on here have TDEE's over 3000 without implementing any cardio. The other issue that wasnt brought up was the OP's definition of "lean". Most people can get in the 10-12% bodyfat range (considered lean by some) with nothing more than clean eating and working out. Going under that % is usually going to require some cardiovascular work. I have several bodybuilder friends who walk around under 10% bodyfat and do ZERO cardio. Unfortunately I am not one of them.

Anyways, point being I 100% agree with your post but I wanted to make the sure the other posters opinion wasnt dismissed as it had value as well and addressed the basic premise behind fat loss.

Oh...I am not Swift either, he's much smarter than me :-)

LOL - Sorry about that. I know who you are and the compliment was still directed at you...I had just read one of swift's threads and that was on my mind. My bad.

As for the other poster....to me in sounded like he was saying cardio wasn't important. Maybe I jumped the gun a bit, but if you read his other post you would understand my frustration.

I just know if I ran sub-maintenance calories I would most likely lose muscle, and if I ran above maintenance with no cardio I would most likely gain fat...Given there are some that can get away with it, but I think most of us need to throw in the cardio. For him to say it isn't necessary seems bad advice. But I guess that's why they're call opinions.

[neversurrendr]

Good thread... cardio sucks... necessary evil... Helps me if I drink from my flask while I hit the treadmill. (just kidding people).

[slfmade]

Good thread... cardio sucks... necessary evil... Helps me if I drink from my flask while I hit the treadmill. (just kidding people).

So you're that fat fvcker that always sweats Jim Bean at my gym!!!! LOL

[FireGuy]

On Trial: Cardio Speed - Sprinting Vs. Slow and Steady
Which burns more fat?
Jim Stoppani, PhD

OPENING ARGUMENTS
Defense Bodybuilders have been doing slow-and-steady cardio for decades in order to drop bodyfat while maintaining muscle.
Prosecution A boatload of research shows that doing high-intensity interval training, such as sprinting and resting, works much better to burn off bodyfat.

EVIDENCE
University of Western Ontario (London, Ontario) researchers had male and female subjects follow a six-week cardio program. One group did slow-and-steady cardio for 30–60 minutes a day, three times per week. The other group only did four to six 30-second sprints with four minutes of rest between sprints three times per week (a total of just 2–3 minutes of total cardio per workout).
The subjects doing the sprints lost more than twice as much bodyfat as the slow-and-steady cardio group.

VERDICT: SPRINTS
Sprinting for only 6–9 minutes per week doubled the amount of fat subjects burned off compared to those who were doing slow-and-steady cardio for 90–180 minutes per week. The slowand- steady group did up to 30 times more exercise per week, but only lost half the amount of bodyfat. Sprinting is the clear winner due to the better results and the reduced amount of time you need to devote to it.

SENTENCING
Find an area that gives you enough distance to sprint as fast as you can for 30 seconds straight. Do six sets of sprints with 1–4 minutes of rest between sprints. And feel free to do more than six for even greater fast loss

[FireGuy]

^^^Another reason why HIIT is so popular. I switched two years ago and had to see the results to believe it.

[Bill_boy2005]

^^^Another reason why HIIT is so popular. I switched two years ago and had to see the results to believe it.

Not to mention its fun to see everyone's faces when your running 8-10mph at 5-10% on the treadmill.

[slfmade]

FG...I value your opinion so I'm hoping you can help me out with this a little bit. I'm always learning so I would like to get your thoughts on this.

Earlier you mentioned that it is possible to cut without doing cardio and without losing LBM. (This were when you were defending the statement made by another poster.)

I remember this Milos Sarcev video liked to this forum in the "so you wanta learn how to diet thread" (I think this was the name of it, it's been a while) He said a few things that seem to contradict some of what's been said in this thread. Now the last time I watched the video's was close to 3 years ago, so the info might be outdated. I forwarn you that this is very paraphrased and my memory might not be that good.

Anyway,

He was talking about how your body is always adapting. He gave an analogy about a woman who's BMR was at 2000cal/day who decided to drop weight and did a 500 cal deficit. He said after a while the body get's used to this deficit, and to counteract changes drops its' own BMR. So now the body saids 1500 calories is her BMR. After a while she stops losing the weight. So she drops another 500 calories from her diet. Her body says again it needs to reduce it's BMR. So now the BMR is 1000 calories a day....and so on, but you get the picture.

If this isn't outdate and in fact correct, it would seem to me that cardio is the only way to maintain LBM while still dropping fat. Based on diet alone without cardio or other cardio intensive activities in your daily life, it would seem that a calorie deficit will eventually lead to LBM loss because you can no longer get the nutrients your body needs to maintain its' muscle mass.

He went on to mention that this is why we do cardio. We still take in maintanence calories or a little below but do the cardio to counteract this and put us at a deficit. It makes sense to me, but maybe I have it all wrong. Can you explain this to me better?

Thanks

[FireGuy]

Couple differences here, biggest one is I am not talking about eating below BMR, I am talking about eating below TDEE. So at the end of the day we can eat 2700 calories with no cardio with a TDEE of 3200 or we can add cardio and eat 3700 calories with a TDEE of 3200. This is an oversimplification but I state this just in reference to your question on BMR. Couple other things to consider, when dieting below maintenance a Keto diet will usually require a "refeed" at least once a week while a carb cycling method addresses this as well with a meal every 3-7 days that will usually be around 1,000 calories over TDEE. This purpose of this is to avoid the exact scenario which you describe above. Also, most cutting diets are 8-12 weeks long which will normally be too short for a significant lowering of BMR.

I am still a huge proponent of cardio I have just changed my views on the most effecient way of doing it. I spent years doing 30 minutes fasted in the AM followed by 30 minutes PWO, light intensity (120-130BPM) on both 7 days a week. After much debate with someone smarter than me I reluctantly gave in and tried the HIIT method. 3 sessions a week, 30 minutes each. I am can attest that the HIIT style has kept me much leaner and gave me 5 1/2 hours a week of my life back. My wife switched as well and had the same results. When in contest prep we both start adding in some light intensity sessions as well.

[falco21]

Couple differences here, biggest one is I am not talking about eating below BMR, I am talking about eating below TDEE. So at the end of the day we can eat 2700 calories with no cardio with a TDEE of 3200 or we can add cardio and eat 3700 calories with a TDEE of 3200. This is an oversimplification but I state this just in reference to your question on BMR. Couple other things to consider, when dieting below maintenance a Keto diet will usually require a "refeed" at least once a week while a carb cycling method addresses this as well with a meal every 3-7 days that will usually be around 1,000 calories over TDEE. This purpose of this is to avoid the exact scenario which you describe above. Also, most cutting diets are 8-12 weeks long which will normally be too short for a significant lowering of BMR.

I am still a huge proponent of cardio I have just changed my views on the most effecient way of doing it. I spent years doing 30 minutes fasted in the AM followed by 30 minutes PWO, light intensity (120-130BPM) on both 7 days a week. After much debate with someone smarter than me I reluctantly gave in and tried the HIIT method. 3 sessions a week, 30 minutes each. I am can attest that the HIIT style has kept me much leaner and gave me 5 1/2 hours a week of my life back. My wife switched as well and had the same results. When in contest prep we both start adding in some light intensity sessions as well.

Very informative thread, but Fireguy let me ask you something. I have also been involved in the contradiction between a slow and steady rate as opposed to HIIT. I feel HIIT has always given me the best results. You said here that you do HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes. Could you please elaborate more on how you go about doing the workout? Another words, how long do you sprint for and how long do you walk or jog for? Also, are you doing this in the morning on an empty stomach or PWO?

Just trying to get an idea of how it is supposed to be done.

[lovbyts]

fat begins to be metabolized after 20 minutes of cardio. low to medium intensity for 60 minutes is what i do, 3x a week

60 min 3x a week. I'm never going to loose any fat. The most cardio I get is 15 minutes 1 or 2x a week and that's during sex.

I HATE cardio but I'm working my way up to 20 minutes at a time..... Typically when I got a good routine going my heart rate is up during my workout for 60 minutes and I'm sweating pretty good so I think that counts a little. Then I do a good 10+ minutes of treadmill. I burned fat OK but you have to be consistent.

[FireGuy]

Very informative thread, but Fireguy let me ask you something. I have also been involved in the contradiction between a slow and steady rate as opposed to HIIT. I feel HIIT has always given me the best results. You said here that you do HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes. Could you please elaborate more on how you go about doing the workout? Another words, how long do you sprint for and how long do you walk or jog for? Also, are you doing this in the morning on an empty stomach or PWO?


Just trying to get an idea of how it is supposed to be done.

I prefer doing mine on the stairmill. I will do intervals of level 15 or 16 for 30 seconds followed by level 7 for 60 seconds. I will do that for 15 minutes followed by 15 minutes of steady state at around level 7 or 8. If I feel like changing it up I will do 15 minutes straight on level 12 followed by 15 at level 7. I know thats not HIIT but it still has the same EPOC effect. Regardless of which method I use I aim for a HR of around 160-170 during the high intensity portion followed by 130-135 for the last 15 minutes.

I usually do this PWO or just on its own in the afternoon on days I dont weight train.

[SlimmerMe]

Couple differences here, biggest one is I am not talking about eating below BMR, I am talking about eating below TDEE. So at the end of the day we can eat 2700 calories with no cardio with a TDEE of 3200 or we can add cardio and eat 3700 calories with a TDEE of 3200. This is an oversimplification but I state this just in reference to your question on BMR. Couple other things to consider, when dieting below maintenance a Keto diet will usually require a "refeed" at least once a week while a carb cycling method addresses this as well with a meal every 3-7 days that will usually be around 1,000 calories over TDEE. This purpose of this is to avoid the exact scenario which you describe above. Also, most cutting diets are 8-12 weeks long which will normally be too short for a significant lowering of BMR.

I am still a huge proponent of cardio I have just changed my views on the most effecient way of doing it. I spent years doing 30 minutes fasted in the AM followed by 30 minutes PWO, light intensity (120-130BPM) on both 7 days a week. After much debate with someone smarter than me I reluctantly gave in and tried the HIIT method. 3 sessions a week, 30 minutes each. I am can attest that the HIIT style has kept me much leaner and gave me 5 1/2 hours a week of my life back. My wife switched as well and had the same results. When in contest prep we both start adding in some light intensity sessions as well.

very very interesting. Thanks Fireguy.

[dooie]

Very informative thread, but Fireguy let me ask you something. I have also been involved in the contradiction between a slow and steady rate as opposed to HIIT. I feel HIIT has always given me the best results. You said here that you do HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes. Could you please elaborate more on how you go about doing the workout? Another words, how long do you sprint for and how long do you walk or jog for? Also, are you doing this in the morning on an empty stomach or PWO?

Just trying to get an idea of how it is supposed to be done.

Hey bro to answer your question, I do this a lot for football, I like uphill sprints, sprint for 30-45 secs or even 80% for a min and then rest(keep walking) for 2-4 mins, the less the better, if your cutting, do it fasted or PWO, try doing 6-12 sprints. Ps for footy training we will do this for sometimes up to 40mins! (many ppl throw up)

[M302_Imola]

FireGuy, not sure if I missed this in the thread but when do you perform you HIIT cardio? In the morning, PWO, or on non weight training days? I've heard HIIT is great at burning fat but have also heard it can be catabolic if glycogen levels are to low. I have also heard it can be taxing on the CNS so it is best used on non weight training days. Looking forward to hearing you thoughts.

[FireGuy]

Yes, I do them in the afternoon and schedule 2 of the 3 on non weight training days just for the reasons you mentioned.

[SlimmerMe]

FIREGUY

Would this HITT later in the day method be best for someone who is ALREADY low in BF like you are?
in other words, I have been doing fasted along with a second cardio later in the day. But if now I am reading to do HITT only just later in the day and not worth doing the fasted, then would you suggest this for someone like myself who is not the low BF like YOU but someone who still needs to shed BF.

Hope I am making since.

And another question: I have heard that going over 45 minutes of cardio is when cortisol kicks in. And so counterproductive.

Plus I think I remember Phate mentioning something about a study which suggested doing 2 shorter cardio sessions a day really helped BF.

Please would love to hear what all you have to say about the above. Thanks
SM

[tbody66]

I prefer doing mine on the stairmill. I will do intervals of level 15 or 16 for 30 seconds followed by level 7 for 60 seconds. I will do that for 15 minutes followed by 15 minutes of steady state at around level 7 or 8. If I feel like changing it up I will do 15 minutes straight on level 12 followed by 15 at level 7. I know thats not HIIT but it still has the same EPOC effect. Regardless of which method I use I aim for a HR of around 160-170 during the high intensity portion followed by 130-135 for the last 15 minutes.

I usually do this PWO or just on its own in the afternoon on days I dont weight train.

I know this guy, he is a hardcore anti-cardio type, he gave in and started doing 30 minuts low intensity and has grown to 40 minutes, morning fasted, how long would it take him to go to a HITT style, and what would be a long enough session to matter, and at what intensity on the sprint part or is that determined by his own lack of cardio conditioning?

[dooie]

I know this guy, he is a hardcore anti-cardio type, he gave in and started doing 30 minuts low intensity and has grown to 40 minutes, morning fasted, how long would it take him to go to a HITT style, and what would be a long enough session to matter, and at what intensity on the sprint part or is that determined by his own lack of cardio conditioning?

If you sprint for 30secs and rest for 3mins do 6-8 and that'll be half an hour which is fine, (keep working your way up) everyone's intensity will be different depending on fitness level, but start at 75% and don't rest as long (2mins) then eventually move up to 90% or as intense as you can for 30secs, the more intense you run, the longer the rest, don't go over 4mins rest though, I'd keep it to under 3!

[Corpsman]

I am so going to try this. I mean, why not? I was supposed to restart my body transformation this week but I got all screwed up. I will be incorporating this on non-training days. Still going to try doing a 10 minute pre-workout cardio. Just enough to get the sweat going. I keep my heart rate up during lifting sessions and believe I did well losing bf this way.

[oatmeal69]

My opinion is anecdotal, but I switched to 30 minutes of interval instead of med. intensity steady pace about 3 weeks ago. Within days, I saw an immediate drop in fat, evident in the mirror and "pinch test." The fat-loss has slowed down considerably, but I'd also say I feel like my metabolism (resting heart rate) has boosted a bit as well. I plan to keep it up, I've read a lot about interval cardio being superior for fat loss.

[M302_Imola]

My opinion is anecdotal, but I switched to 30 minutes of interval instead of med. intensity steady pace about 3 weeks ago. Within days, I saw an immediate drop in fat, evident in the mirror and "pinch test." The fat-loss has slowed down considerably, but I'd also say I feel like my metabolism (resting heart rate) has boosted a bit as well. I plan to keep it up, I've read a lot about interval cardio being superior for fat loss.

Yes, HIIT cardio will boost your BMR thus you burn more calories throughout the day

[auslifta]

fat begins to be metabolized after 20 minutes of cardio. low to medium intensity for 60 minutes is what i do, 3x a week

straight after intense weights it would prob happen instantly.

[FireGuy]

FIREGUY

Would this HITT later in the day method be best for someone who is ALREADY low in BF like you are?
in other words, I have been doing fasted along with a second cardio later in the day. But if now I am reading to do HITT only just later in the day and not worth doing the fasted, then would you suggest this for someone like myself who is not the low BF like YOU but someone who still needs to shed BF.

Hope I am making since.
I would start by doing 4 sessions of fasted low intensity cardio in the AM like you already are then kick in 3 sessions of HIIT in the afternoon on the other 3 days.

And another question: I have heard that going over 45 minutes of cardio is when cortisol kicks in. And so counterproductive.
I think this would be greatly determined by the intensity level of the cardio you are doing. I always find it interesting how many people are worried about the muscle wasting effects of cardio if it's over a certain length of time yet will spend an hour and fifteen minutes working with weights. That said, I have changed my tune some over the years and reduced my cardio to 30 minute sessions max these day. I have found lower cals and higher intensity are a better trade off for myself.

Plus I think I remember Phate mentioning something about a study which suggested doing 2 shorter cardio sessions a day really helped BF.
I would agree, you are getting the EPOC (excessive post oxygen consumption) effect twice instead of once.

Please would love to hear what all you have to say about the above. Thanks
SM

I know this guy, he is a hardcore anti-cardio type, he gave in and started doing 30 minuts low intensity and has grown to 40 minutes, morning fasted, how long would it take him to go to a HITT style, and what would be a long enough session to matter, and at what intensity on the sprint part or is that determined by his own lack of cardio conditioning?

If you see "that guy" tell him to try subsituting one or two or those morning sessions for a couple HIIT sessions on his non training days. 15-30 minutes is plenty of time to start with. And yes, the intensity will be defined by the subjects conditioning level. The high intensity level(s) should have you breathing like you just 20 reps in the squat rack.

[SlimmerMe]

Thanks Fireguy!

Appreciate all of your info here. Thank goodness I like cardio! Always have.
(Its the lifting that gets me.....)

[Sgt. Hartman]

I don't think the fact that HIIT causes greater overall fat loss is some new scientific breakthrough. The time spent performing HIIT + EPOC simply burns more calories than most low or medium intensity cardio sessions, and obviously more calories burned is going to yield greater fat loss. It's the same reason that 2 smaller cardio sessions per day are better than one long session of same total duration, you're getting 2 EPOC's instead of one and burning more total calories.

HIIT has gotten a bad rep in the BB community because everyone thinks that when your HR exceeds 75% of max the magical catabolic demon shows up and eats away all your muscle mass, which is simply not true. I've done HIIT consistently EOD while cutting off-cycle with heart rate getting up close to 180 and had no significant drop in LBM or strength. It does make me want to puke my brains out but doesn't burn muscle mass.

[SlimmerMe]

I don't think the fact that HIIT causes greater overall fat loss is some new scientific breakthrough. The time spent performing HIIT + EPOC simply burns more calories than most low or medium intensity cardio sessions, and obviously more calories burned is going to yield greater fat loss. It's the same reason that 2 smaller cardio sessions per day are better than one long session of same total duration, you're getting 2 EPOC's instead of one and burning more total calories.

HIIT has gotten a bad rep in the BB community because everyone thinks that when your HR exceeds 75% of max the magical catabolic demon shows up and eats away all your muscle mass, which is simply not true. I've done HIIT consistently EOD while cutting off-cycle with heart rate getting up close to 180 and had no significant drop in LBM or strength. It does make me want to puke my brains out but doesn't burn muscle mass.

I adhere to the 2x's a day shorter sessions. And in all honestly really believe the reason I have been able to succeed as much as I have. Plus very relieved to hear this a few months ago since many members wanted me to up my cardio to a longer time yet I felt doing 2 shorter 2x's a day was doing the trick. And now I know why. 2 EPOC's.