HGH and slin

[HoldMyBeer]

Fuad's latest podcast, he and luke sandow (spelling?) claimed HGH and slin was nothing but a cosmetic drug and doesn't actually help you build muscle. That they only take it (HGH) out of paranoia and Fuad does not use slin. Then how do they explain the difference in size from the 70s to the 90s?
More, "you don't need to take that much, I used to now I realize you don't need to." But if they hadn't they probably would be as big as they are
Starts at 44:45ish
https://youtu.be/HwHPA552ibE

[GearHeaded]

I think Fouad was disagreeing with Luke a bit about HGH supposedly not building muscle.. the funny thing is, they are both looking at it from inside their own box . from the outside we see 2 guys that are a lean 280+ pounds and who have been taking Pharma grade HGH for over a decade , we can look at them and point and say "see HGH does build muscle, look at these two freaks that have been using it for a long time"

[Livinlean]

That feeling is common among many pro's. GH is added to most cycles to help with recovery leading to harder workouts which then leads to more muscle gain. No one really holds their breath expecting GH to make them huge but its definitely a staple. I'm not saying it doesn't build muscle however, science shows that it does but i'm simply stating that it is mainly added for recovery.

The insulin thing is 100% true. That mass is not real mass and again this is based off what pro's say and personal experience. Insulin will make you "full" but once you diet down before a show, you will notice that it wasn't real mass and shrink down real quick. Insulin use does seem to cause higher amounts of glycogen retention however and if done properly (used in off season, dropped during dieting and then used for the carb up pre contest) it can be very beneficial and fill you out real quick. The only problem is, if you have a lot of mass already, you get that "spongey" look that you see with kuwait's bodybuilders nowadays like Roelly for example.

[kaptainkeezy04]

That feeling is common among many pro's. GH is added to most cycles to help with recovery leading to harder workouts which then leads to more muscle gain. No one really holds their breath expecting GH to make them huge but its definitely a staple. I'm not saying it doesn't build muscle however, science shows that it does but i'm simply stating that it is mainly added for recovery.

The insulin thing is 100% true. That mass is not real mass and again this is based off what pro's say and personal experience. Insulin will make you "full" but once you diet down before a show, you will notice that it wasn't real mass and shrink down real quick. Insulin use does seem to cause higher amounts of glycogen retention however and if done properly (used in off season, dropped during dieting and then used for the carb up pre contest) it can be very beneficial and fill you out real quick. The only problem is, if you have a lot of mass already, you get that "spongey" look that you see with kuwait's bodybuilders nowadays like Roelly for example.

I agree that insulin does not build muscle, but it does shuttle nutrients like amino acids, creatine, etc. into the muscle (and only the muscle when growth hormone is present), and there is great synergy between insulin and HGH. For instance, hgh will break down your body's fat for fuel and practically make it impossible for your body to store anything consumed as fat.

Also, timing your insulin and igf-1 spikes (from hgh injections) brings great results. When you inject Humalog/Novolin-r/etc, the insulin gets bound to the receptors that your igf-1 would normally get wasted to. So, now that igf-1 cannot bind to those receptors, you have much higher levels of free igf-1 flowing through your body and it lasts much, much longer. Try doing a blood test for igf levels 10 hours after your last hgh injection without insulin injections, and then do it again with insulin injections (timed correctly. Please keep reading for proper timing) and look at the difference in igf levels in your blood). Longer presence of igf-1 means less fat storage and more muscle building. I like to time my hgh and insulin in this way:

Pre workout: hgh injection (my preworkout meal finished 1 hour prior), 30 minutes later inject Humalog, 10 minutes later begin warmup cardio for 5 minutes, after cardio is completed (15 minutes after Humalog injection) begin consuming 50 grams of dextrose with 10-15 grams of eaa's and 5-10 grams of creatine. Some people say to chug the drink, some people say to sip it throughout workout. I time it like this because the igf spike and the insulin spike occur at the same time (please note that the spikes are different with Novolin-r and you should inject hgh at the same time as Novolin-r).

So, during my workouts, I not only have a source of fast acting carbs, creatine, and eaa's getting shuttled straight to my muscles, but I also have a shit load of igf-1 getting to the muscles as well.

In conclusion, I believe that without insulin use, a lot of igf-1 from hgh gets wasted, and your body will not be as efficient at shuttling carbs and other nutrients to the muscle which insulin is king at doing. When you use insulin and not hgh, you hear a lot of guys saying "oh I just get fat, and that's it". Well, try taking insulin with lots of HGH and you won't be saying that anymore.

[GearHeaded]

well you don't get to looking like a 280 pound jacked Fouad Abiad without insulin in some form or another,, even though he does not take exogenous insulin anymore , he's still getting like 100iu per day naturally through his high carb diet (add his HGH into the mix and he's now getting even more natural production)..

insulin is most definitely 'anabolic' and builds muscles .. if we were all type 1 diabetics and didn't produce insulin and didn't take it exogenously (we would die, but besides the point) we would all be like 80 pound skeletons and have no muscle mass at all. you simply can't build muscle without insulin..


wither you get that insulin from a bottle or from your own pancreas, it does not matter, insulin is insulin . just because Arnold did not inject exogenous insulin does NOT mean his physique was built without insulin . he's no different then Brandon Curry who injects insulin, because its all the same. all the muscle on both those physiques were built in one way or the other via the aide of insulin .. again you can't build muscle without it (thats how proteins, amino acids, glycogen, water, and nutrients get into muscle cells .. by insulin).

now of course with exogenous insulin you can get a super compensation effect that can't be achieved with natty production. you can also time things exactly how you want.. so your going to be able to build more overall muscle and load more glycogen and nutrients with exogenous insulin use. but again wither your natty or not or take insulin or not , insulin is critical in the muscle building process in one way or the other

[Livinlean]

I agree that insulin does not build muscle, but it does shuttle nutrients like amino acids, creatine, etc. into the muscle (and only the muscle when growth hormone is present), and there is great synergy between insulin and HGH. For instance, hgh will break down your body's fat for fuel and practically make it impossible for your body to store anything consumed as fat.

Also, timing your insulin and igf-1 spikes (from hgh injections) brings great results. When you inject Humalog/Novolin-r/etc, the insulin gets bound to the receptors that your igf-1 would normally get wasted to. So, now that igf-1 cannot bind to those receptors, you have much higher levels of free igf-1 flowing through your body and it lasts much, much longer. Try doing a blood test for igf levels 10 hours after your last hgh injection without insulin injections, and then do it again with insulin injections (timed correctly. Please keep reading for proper timing) and look at the difference in igf levels in your blood). Longer presence of igf-1 means less fat storage and more muscle building. I like to time my hgh and insulin in this way:

Pre workout: hgh injection (my preworkout meal finished 1 hour prior), 30 minutes later inject Humalog, 10 minutes later begin warmup cardio for 5 minutes, after cardio is completed (15 minutes after Humalog injection) begin consuming 50 grams of dextrose with 10-15 grams of eaa's and 5-10 grams of creatine. Some people say to chug the drink, some people say to sip it throughout workout. I time it like this because the igf spike and the insulin spike occur at the same time (please note that the spikes are different with Novolin-r and you should inject hgh at the same time as Novolin-r).

So, during my workouts, I not only have a source of fast acting carbs, creatine, and eaa's getting shuttled straight to my muscles, but I also have a shit load of igf-1 getting to the muscles as well.

In conclusion, I believe that without insulin use, a lot of igf-1 from hgh gets wasted, and your body will not be as efficient at shuttling carbs and other nutrients to the muscle which insulin is king at doing. When you use insulin and not hgh, you hear a lot of guys saying "oh I just get fat, and that's it". Well, try taking insulin with lots of HGH and you won't be saying that anymore.

I can't argue with anything stated above as it is all true. Maybe I didn't stick to the protocol long enough, maybe my HGH was fake, I'm not sure but what I do know is that my insulin gains were not permanent but man, did I ever look crazy full while running it. Personally I did have some pretty crazy strength gains but the size just didn't seem to stay on.

Weird thing is, I didn't seem to get fat at all. My body seemed to stay leaner while on the insulin but now that I think about it, thats kind of a pretty big sign that I wasn't eating enough or at least could have pushed things a bit more with the food. At the end of the day, we all react different to different compounds and on top of that, who knows what were putting in us is real and whats not but I'll definitely still be messing around with slin in my off season to see if I can find the sweet spot in terms of gains.

[Livinlean]

well you don't get to looking like a 280 pound jacked Fouad Abiad without insulin in some form or another,, even though he does not take exogenous insulin anymore , he's still getting like 100iu per day naturally through his high carb diet (add his HGH into the mix and he's now getting even more natural production)..

insulin is most definitely 'anabolic' and builds muscles .. if we were all type 1 diabetics and didn't produce insulin and didn't take it exogenously (we would die, but besides the point) we would all be like 80 pound skeletons and have no muscle mass at all. you simply can't build muscle without insulin..


wither you get that insulin from a bottle or from your own pancreas, it does not matter, insulin is insulin . just because Arnold did not inject exogenous insulin does NOT mean his physique was built without insulin . he's no different then Brandon Curry who injects insulin, because its all the same. all the muscle on both those physiques were built in one way or the other via the aide of insulin .. again you can't build muscle without it (thats how proteins, amino acids, glycogen, water, and nutrients get into muscle cells .. by insulin).

now of course with exogenous insulin you can get a super compensation effect that can't be achieved with natty production. you can also time things exactly how you want.. so your going to be able to build more overall muscle and load more glycogen and nutrients with exogenous insulin use. but again wither your natty or not or take insulin or not , insulin is critical in the muscle building process in one way or the other

Very good way of putting it.

So question here for you, for someone running high amounts of insulin, would you recommend them running a decent amount of fat to ensure everything is recovering properly or would you keep the fat low in hopes of not gaining fat, I know this is the conventional way of doing things but I also know that a lot of people don't follow this ideology.

[GearHeaded]

Very good way of putting it.

So question here for you, for someone running high amounts of insulin, would you recommend them running a decent amount of fat to ensure everything is recovering properly or would you keep the fat low in hopes of not gaining fat, I know this is the conventional way of doing things but I also know that a lot of people don't follow this ideology.

so the reason some guys end up getting fat using insulin is not because they are eating fat per se, they are over doing sugar. they are so damn afraid and paranoid of going hypo after injecting slin that they continually gorge on a bunch of junk food and candy.
https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...g-insulin.html

I generally have guys run insulin along side their existing body building diet. the diet is optimized ahead of time, their is no need to change it just because your now running exogenous insulin. if your post workout meal is 8oz of chicken and 2 cups of white rice, then you need to shoot the amount of insulin that is sufficient for that exact meal (not start adding sugars and candy just cause you shot insulin)


as for dietary fats. I would keep those in your diet they way they've always been in your diet. some guys think that they can't have dietary fats when on an insulin protocol because they think the slin is just going to store the fat. but dietary fat does NOT require insulin to be stored as body fat in the first place. fat gets stored as fat wither your injecting insulin or not (its though enzymatic processes that dietary fat is stored as fat).
yes insulin can play a role in storage into fat cells, but this is not sped up or enhanced just because you get insulin from a needle and not your pancreas.


the only hindrance dietary fat has with insulin use is that it slows down the absorption of carbs. so if your using rapid acting insulin post workout, its best to eat your two cups of rice meal but not have any fats in that meal because you don't want to slow things down.
but if you were running say just 5iu of slin first thing in the morning and using an "r" fast acting insulin and not rapid , then its really no biggy to use slower acting carbs like oatmeal and its fine to have fats in their as well lets say with your eggs


one exception to all the above is if a guy is in an off season heavy bulking and trying to put on as much mass as possible,, then I will adjust the diet to go along with and feed the insulin use. so lets say we are pinning 60iu of slin per day, plus running 6iu of HGH, plus MK, etc.. then we are going to have to feed all that with additional carbs added to the diet. your existing normal bodybuilding diet is probably not sufficient.

the exact opposite when using insulin during a contest prep or cut. insulin dosages go way down and things are very time limited. may use a little bit of insulin during fasted cardio, or may use a little bit during meal 1 to blunt cortisol, and perhaps post workout to aide recovery,, but we are definitely not purposely feeding the insulin use

[kaptainkeezy04]

I can't argue with anything stated above as it is all true. Maybe I didn't stick to the protocol long enough, maybe my HGH was fake, I'm not sure but what I do know is that my insulin gains were not permanent but man, did I ever look crazy full while running it. Personally I did have some pretty crazy strength gains but the size just didn't seem to stay on.

Weird thing is, I didn't seem to get fat at all. My body seemed to stay leaner while on the insulin but now that I think about it, thats kind of a pretty big sign that I wasn't eating enough or at least could have pushed things a bit more with the food. At the end of the day, we all react different to different compounds and on top of that, who knows what were putting in us is real and whats not but I'll definitely still be messing around with slin in my off season to see if I can find the sweet spot in terms of gains.

You say you didn't make any gains and this was just fullness you got. That could be true, especially if you weren't running legit hgh. One thing you could do is take measurements of different muscles while flat (I'm talking low carb and low water, low sodium for a couple of days) before an insulin cycle and then again after and compare the difference. Though the insulin pump can last a few days in my experience so perhaps just start the low carb cycle again after being off insulin for 3 days.

[Huher]

so the reason some guys end up getting fat using insulin is not because they are eating fat per se, they are over doing sugar. they are so damn afraid and paranoid of going hypo after injecting slin that they continually gorge on a bunch of junk food and candy.
https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3...g-insulin.html

I really have to agree. GH helped with my first insulin use during bulking, and I've not even gained fat but lost it. I've dropped around 2-3 bf% while also gained 8-10lbs without any HGH, just AAS and slin. Pre wo shot was 6-8 iu and I consumed only 20g of sugar during workout, post shot was 15 iu and didn't consume any sugar at all, just oats and rice, and didn't have any problems. Veins started to appear where I didn't even know they existed, abs started to appear too, while I was in a 4500 kcal diet.
Couldn't even imagine what would it do with HGH, it's awesome

[Ashop]

I really have to agree. GH helped with my first insulin use during bulking, and I've not even gained fat but lost it. I've dropped around 2-3 bf% while also gained 8-10lbs without any HGH, just AAS and slin. Pre wo shot was 6-8 iu and I consumed only 20g of sugar during workout, post shot was 15 iu and didn't consume any sugar at all, just oats and rice, and didn't have any problems. Veins started to appear where I didn't even know they existed, abs started to appear too, while I was in a 4500 kcal diet.
Couldn't even imagine what would it do with HGH, it's awesome

Using insulin with HGH is like pouring gas on a fire. A sure game changer.

[Quester]

Thankks to kaptain for the timing info and to GH for the info about use during a cut and the concept that it is adjustable.
-
That made me want to find a sliding scale chart which is posted below. This probably isn't the chart for non-diabetic use but it is all I can find. If anyone can find a better one or write their own, that would be appreciated.
-
The chart below is for regular insulin. It's easy to get Novolin-r, which is regular insulin, at Walmart.
-
Ref - Sliding Scale Insulin Regular Guidelines.pdf

[GearHeaded]

Thankks to kaptain for the timing info and to GH for the info about use during a cut and the concept that it is adjustable.
-
That made me want to find a sliding scale chart which is posted below. This probably isn't the chart for non-diabetic use but it is all I can find. If anyone can find a better one or write their own, that would be appreciated.
-
The chart below is for regular insulin. It's easy to get Novolin-r, which is regular insulin, at Walmart.
-
Ref - Sliding Scale Insulin Regular Guidelines.pdf

that appears to be a diabetic chart . thats not going to work for bodybuilding purposes. we are on average way more insulin sensitive and better at controlling blood sugar just naturally.
also we are using insulin to drive nutrients, not control blood sugar. our blood sugar is likely never even going to go above 160. we can easily use 30iu per day.. where as that chart may call for only 8iu with high blood sugar, we may take 20iu with low blood sugar. because again we are just tying to drive nutrients, not regulate blood sugar per se.

I have a much different blood sugar monitoring protocol then that chart. but its based on bodybuilding purposes . with a blood sugar of only 90 , I still may take 10-15iu of slin. but a diabetic may be taking 0 slin with that low of blood sugar

[charger69]

I go hypo during a cut trying to use 2 iu of slin. What is the secret to use it for cutting?


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[i_SLAM_cougars]

I go hypo during a cut trying to use 2 iu of slin. What is the secret to use it for cutting?


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Peanut butter...

[charger69]

Peanut butter...

LMAO- I tried that- I only gained fat. LOL


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[Quester]

I guess the dose depends more on the number of carbs. IS there a different protocal for cutting or is it just based on experience? I mean, in a cut we are probably trying to keep b. sugar lowest so it likely takes more finesse?

[charger69]

I guess the dose depends more on the number of carbs. IS there a different protocal for cutting or is it just based on experience? I mean, in a cut we are probably trying to keep b. sugar lowest so it likely takes more finesse?

That was my problem. Depleted, low blood sugar and slin. I thought I was crazy going hypo on 2 iu’s, luckily I knew what hypo was. It wasn’t going to kill me, but enough to effect the workout.


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[twmcm]

Never used exogenous insulin before but considering it now. I’m currently on a stack of clenbuterol, winstrol, anavar, sostenon and HGH. The stack is basically 60 mcg clenbuterol in the morning, together with 30mg winstrol, 30mg anavar and 3 IU HGH. Same thing in the afternoon. Sostenon 250mg injection twice a week (500mg week, total).

Plus 20mg tamoxifen daily.

I am nearing six weeks on clenbuterol so it needs to stop due to loss of the desired effect.

Now I want to add levocarnitine injections in an effort to get rid of more fat, faster. But I understand levocarnitine requires a bit of exogenous insulin to shuttle it around the body. Without exogenous insulin, the levocarnitine is pretty much wasted.

Given my lack of experience with exogenous insulin, what would be the recommended dose? When? And under what parameters (with other components like IGF-1, T3, with food, without food, what food, etc.?).

Any thoughts appreciated ... thanks.

[charger69]

Never used exogenous insulin before but considering it now. I’m currently on a stack of clenbuterol, winstrol, anavar, sostenon and HGH. The stack is basically 60 mcg clenbuterol in the morning, together with 30mg winstrol, 30mg anavar and 3 IU HGH. Same thing in the afternoon. Sostenon 250mg injection twice a week (500mg week, total).

Plus 20mg tamoxifen daily.

I am nearing six weeks on clenbuterol so it needs to stop due to loss of the desired effect.

Now I want to add levocarnitine injections in an effort to get rid of more fat, faster. But I understand levocarnitine requires a bit of exogenous insulin to shuttle it around the body. Without exogenous insulin, the levocarnitine is pretty much wasted.

Given my lack of experience with exogenous insulin, what would be the recommended dose? When? And under what parameters (with other components like IGF-1, T3, with food, without food, what food, etc.?).

Any thoughts appreciated ... thanks.

Just out of curiosity, why the urgency to get rid of the fat.


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[twmcm]

No reason other than vanity, immediate gratification. And I suppose an element of curiosity because I enjoy learning about all these techniques and then testing them.

Just out of curiosity, why the urgency to get rid of the fat.


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