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Thread: Perfect example of how government intervention fails

  1. #1
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    Perfect example of how government intervention fails

    Ethanol Demand in U.S. Adds to Food, Fertilizer Costs (Update3)

    By Alan Bjerga

    Feb. 21 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. plans to replace 15 percent of gasoline consumption with crop-based fuels including ethanol are already leading to some unintended consequences as food prices and fertilizer costs increase.

    About 33 percent of U.S. corn will be used for fuel during the next decade, up from 11 percent in 2002, the Agriculture Department estimates. Corn rose 20 percent to a record on the Chicago Board of Trade since Dec. 19, the day President George W. Bush signed a law requiring a fivefold jump in renewable fuels by 2022.

    Increased demand for the grain helped boost food prices by 4.9 percent last year, the most since 1990, and will reduce global inventories of corn to the lowest in 24 years, government data show. While advocates say ethanol is cleaner than gasoline, a Princeton University study this month said it causes more environmental harm than fossil fuels.

    ``We are mandating and subsidizing something that is distorting the marketplace,'' said Cal Dooley, a former U.S. congressman from California, who represents companies including Kraft Foods Inc. and General Mills Inc. as president of the Grocery Manufacturers Association in Washington. ``There are no excess commodities, and prices are rising.''

    The energy bill requires the U.S. to use 36 billion gallons of renewable fuels by 2022, of which about 15 billion gallons may come from corn-based ethanol. The nation's current production capacity is about 8.06 billion gallons.

    Alternative Energy

    Oil prices tripled since the end of 2003, causing the government to consider alternative fuels. Now, the competition for corn is leading to higher costs for food companies, raising prices for everything from cattle to dairy products.

    Corn doubled in the past two years, touching a record $5.29 a bushel today in Chicago. The price of young cattle sold to feedlots gained 8.7 percent in the past year, reaching a record $1.1965 a pound on Sept. 6 on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Average whole milk rose 26 percent to $3.871 a gallon in January from a year earlier, the Department of Labor said yesterday.

    ``For thousands of years, humans grew food and ate it,'' said Andrew Redleaf, 50, chief executive officer of Whitebox Advisors LLC, a Minneapolis hedge fund that manages $3 billion. ``Now we are burning crops to make fuel.''

    Whitebox bought three U.S. grain depots in the past year to profit from the growth in demand.

    Updated Forecast

    Farmers will have to increase planting of corn for ethanol by 43 percent to 30 million acres by 2015 to meet the government's requirements, said Bill Nelson, a vice president at A.G. Edwards Inc. in St. Louis. This year, growers outside the Midwest are focused on more profitable crops such as soybeans and wheat, the USDA said today in a crop forecast.

    Corn planting will fall 3.8 percent this year to 90 million acres as farmers sow 12 percent more land with soybeans and 6 percent more with wheat, Joe Glauber, USDA acting chief economist, said today at the department's annual conference in Arlington, Virginia. The USDA said Feb. 8 that world corn reserves would drop for the seventh year in the past eight.

    Increased planting has caused some fertilizer costs to double. Diammonium phosphate, a nutrient used on corn fields, reached $792.50 a ton on Feb. 15 from $297 a year earlier, USDA data show.

    Greenhouse Gases

    Researchers led by Timothy Searchinger at Princeton University said their study showed greenhouse-gas emissions will rise with ethanol demand. U.S. farmers will use more land for fuel, forcing poorer countries to cut down rainforests and use other undeveloped land for farms, the study said.

    Searchinger's team determined that corn-based ethanol almost doubles greenhouse-gas output over 30 years when considering land-use changes. Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association in Washington, said the study used a flawed model and overestimated how much land will be needed.

    Ethanol is important in reducing emissions, ending energy dependence on the Middle East and creating jobs in rural areas, Dinneen said today at the USDA conference.

    ``There are still some who want us to choose between food and fuel,'' said Dinneen, whose organization represents ethanol producers including Archer Daniels Midland Co. ``I don't think we have to choose.'' Research shows cellulosic ethanol made from grasses and crop waste may contribute 21 billion gallons by 2022, and farmers will be able to boost yields, he said.

    Food Costs Rise

    U.S. food costs, which account for about a fifth of the consumer-price index, rose 0.7 percent in January, the Labor Department said Feb. 20. They will increase as much as 4 percent this year, Glauber said in remarks at the forum.

    ``Food prices through 2010 will rise greater than the overall inflation rate,'' because of rising energy and commodity costs, he said.

    Ethanol's contribution to inflation is limited, USDA economist Ephraim Leibtag said in an interview. A 50 percent jump in corn prices in 2007 from the 20-year average only added 1.6 cents to the cost of an 18-ounce box of Kellogg Co. Corn Flakes cereal, Leibtag said. The cost is less than 2 percent per box, JPMorgan Chase & Co. estimates.

    Ethanol's boom helps restrain government spending on farm subsidies, said House Agriculture Committee Chairman Collin Peterson, a Minnesota Democrat. The USDA expects taxpayers to spend $941 million on the two main subsidy programs tied to price this year, down from $9.1 billion in 2006.

    Smithfield, Tyson

    For food companies, demand for ethanol translates into lower profits and job cuts.

    Smithfield Foods Inc., the largest U.S. hog producer, said Feb. 19 it will cut output by as much as 1 million animals a year, or 5 percent, because feed costs are too high. The company is based in Smithfield, Virginia.

    Tyson Foods Inc., the largest U.S. meat company, forecast an increase in grain costs this year of more than $500 million. Springdale, Arkansas-based Tyson also reported a 40 percent drop in first-quarter profit and said it will close a beef plant in Kansas, firing 1,800 workers.

    Ethanol ``has caused a domino effect,'' CEO Richard L. Bond said in a statement Jan. 28. ``For the foreseeable future, consumers will pay more and more for food.''

    To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Bjerga in Washington at [email protected].

    Last Updated: February 21, 2008 19:32 EST

  2. #2
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    Ethanol is and has always been utterly stupid as a biofuel. Biofuels overall are completely unable to even make a small dent in oil consumtion. Only a transition to electric vehicles have a chanse of acctualy making any country oil independent and lower co2 emissions.

    Offcourse that requires some politician to say that we need more nuclear and we need it now. Most presidential candidates, except Clinton, seems quite positive about nuclear. But they never mention nuclear without also mentioning pipe dreams like wind and solar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern View Post
    Ethanol is and has always been utterly stupid as a biofuel. Biofuels overall are completely unable to even make a small dent in oil consumtion. Only a transition to electric vehicles have a chanse of acctualy making any country oil independent and lower co2 emissions.

    Offcourse that requires some politician to say that we need more nuclear and we need it now. Most presidential candidates, except Clinton, seems quite positive about nuclear. But they never mention nuclear without also mentioning pipe dreams like wind and solar.
    I completely agree.

    You would probably know this, doesn't it take more gas to actually produce ethanol from corn than the fuel it would actually save?

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    Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.

    Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

    You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

    so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

    or as the call it supply issues.
    but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.
    I know he is, but I don't know why he is. You would think he's not that foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

    You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

    so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

    or as the call it supply issues.
    but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.
    I think it has a lot to do with the government subsidizing of corn. Why would farmers continue to grow wheat when they are rewarded for growing corn for ethanol purposes? If the government let the market decide what it needed than farmers would grow corn for ethanol if/when there was a demand for ethanol. When that demand was met farmers would stop growing it, but now the government forces a demand for ethanol and farmers stop producing wheat in order to produce corn. If there is a surplus of corn the government will just buy it up from the farmers. It doesn't make sense to me and it seems like we're just trying to appease "environmental lobbyist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blome View Post
    I completely agree.

    You would probably know this, doesn't it take more gas to actually produce ethanol from corn than the fuel it would actually save?
    Different studies say slightely different things. But in any case the gain from ethanol is very small. The most optimistic figures is that you get out perhaps twice as much energy as you put in. But the main showstopper is the ammount of land needed to even fuel a fraction of the cars.

    Contrast that to oil where you get something like 20-30 times as much energy out as you put in or nuclear where it can be several hundred times depending on reactor type and fuel composition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooks View Post
    Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.

    Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

    You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

    so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

    or as the call it supply issues.
    but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.
    At this very moment I think people are less concerned with inflation and more concerned with Equity losses of course inflation is a huge peace of the puzzle... pushing them to Commodities looking for some kind of save haven.... artificially cause what we see now.. suppressed equities in all sectors and an explosion of commodities without merit.. Its the double whammy man inflation+recession = Fear...any one smart would start buying equities like a freak in companies with strong earnings in 3-5 months...Because when consumer confidence returns stock values will rise again..and quickly
    Last edited by soulstealer; 02-22-2008 at 11:20 AM.

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    But then again I could just be babbling BS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blome View Post
    I know he is, but I don't know why he is. You would think he's not that foolish.


    I think it has a lot to do with the government subsidizing of corn. Why would farmers continue to grow wheat when they are rewarded for growing corn for ethanol purposes? If the government let the market decide what it needed than farmers would grow corn for ethanol if/when there was a demand for ethanol. When that demand was met farmers would stop growing it, but now the government forces a demand for ethanol and farmers stop producing wheat in order to produce corn. If there is a surplus of corn the government will just buy it up from the farmers. It doesn't make sense to me and it seems like we're just trying to appease "environmental lobbyist."


    I'm a little surprised, that the price of WHEAT increased the most, and than followed by COAL.. (oil and ethanol get more attention) also that LUMBER lost value. (cause u hear all these losing forests stories)
    a pleasant surprise was the cost of meat staying the same... which with inflation included means cost of meats actually went down.

    (some of these vary depending on which exchange u look up the prices)

    TOP FIVE ON THIS LIST are..
    1. WHEAT!!! 101% increase in price from a year ago.
    2. COAL 71%
    3. ETHANOL 66%
    4. OIL 51%
    5. PROPANE 50%

    ENERGY
    ETHANOL up 66% in one year.
    http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

    OIL up 51% in one year.
    http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

    COAL up 71% in one year.
    http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

    PROPANE up 50% in one year.
    http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

    FOOD and FIBER

    SUGAR 22.5% in one year.
    MILK 26% in one year.
    ORANGE JUICE DOWN -28%
    LUMBER down -25%
    COTTON 23% in one year.

    GRAINS AND OIL SEEDS
    CORN 21% in one year
    OATS 47% increase!!
    RICE 43% increase
    Soybeans 44%
    WHEAT 101%
    http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=CBOT_W.H08&v=d12

    LIVESTOCK AND MEATS
    Cattle .. pretty much unchanged.
    Pork bellies.. pretty much the same
    Live Cattle.. down just a tad.

    METALS
    ALUMINUM 21% in one year.
    COPPER 41% in one year.
    GOLD 40% in one year

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulstealer View Post
    But then again I could just be babbling BS
    Thats the Warren Buffet strategy

    takes a lot of guts and patience.. but if u distribute your wealth along solid companies right now.. u should come up on top over the long run.. thats what past history dictates hehe

    most people will chase the buck into commodities tho as u also mentioned.

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    The market is most purely incredibly simple... buy when people wont and sell before they do...

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    U.S. plans to replace 15 percent of gasoline consumption with crop-based fuels including ethanol are already leading to some unintended consequences as food prices and fertilizer costs increase.

    Anyone who thought this through could foresee this happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack View Post
    U.S. plans to replace 15 percent of gasoline consumption with crop-based fuels including ethanol are already leading to some unintended consequences as food prices and fertilizer costs increase.

    Anyone who thought this through could foresee this happening.
    And is surprises you that our Government passed legislation without "thinking it through"?...

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    lol, never. I wish the legislators would actually take a couple years off. Instead of fixing things they generally screw them up further.


    Quote Originally Posted by soulstealer View Post
    And is surprises you that our Government passed legislation without "thinking it through"?...

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    Its gotta be the most retarded thing... Its as though the government is trying to destroy us... On one side you have people @$$Fking the economy with legislation designed to better society or correct problems stemming from out actions to stimulate the economy...and on the other side you have people @$$Fking the people in an attempt to stimulate the economy... exposing points that people dream up legislation to correct.... Thus @$$Fking the economy again.... and people act like theres no possible conspiracy.... well bro either one of 2 things is happening... either the powers that be are the Most nefarious.... evil.... diabolical.... insidious.... beings who ever existed going after total control......Or they're all a bunch complete fking dumb@$$es....and Stone cold fk Nutz....either way.... we're in for it...
    Last edited by soulstealer; 02-22-2008 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulstealer View Post
    and people act like theres no possible conspiracy.... well bro either one of 2 things is happening... either the powers that be are the Most nefarious.... evil.... diabolical.... insidious.... beings who ever existed going after total control......Or they're all a bunch complete fking dumb@$$es....and Stone cold fk Nutz....either way.... we're in for it...
    There's nothing malicious or conspiratorial about it. It's just outright Progressivism and people buy right into to it as though the government knows whats best.

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