Perfect example of how government intervention fails

[SMCengineer]

Ethanol is and has always been utterly stupid as a biofuel. Biofuels overall are completely unable to even make a small dent in oil consumtion. Only a transition to electric vehicles have a chanse of acctualy making any country oil independent and lower co2 emissions.

Offcourse that requires some politician to say that we need more nuclear and we need it now. Most presidential candidates, except Clinton, seems quite positive about nuclear. But they never mention nuclear without also mentioning pipe dreams like wind and solar.

I completely agree.

You would probably know this, doesn't it take more gas to actually produce ethanol from corn than the fuel it would actually save?

[Pooks]

Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.

Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

or as the call it supply issues.
but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.

[SMCengineer]

Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.

I know he is, but I don't know why he is. You would think he's not that foolish.

Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

or as the call it supply issues.
but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.

I think it has a lot to do with the government subsidizing of corn. Why would farmers continue to grow wheat when they are rewarded for growing corn for ethanol purposes? If the government let the market decide what it needed than farmers would grow corn for ethanol if/when there was a demand for ethanol. When that demand was met farmers would stop growing it, but now the government forces a demand for ethanol and farmers stop producing wheat in order to produce corn. If there is a surplus of corn the government will just buy it up from the farmers. It doesn't make sense to me and it seems like we're just trying to appease "environmental lobbyist."

[Pooks]

I know he is, but I don't know why he is. You would think he's not that foolish.


I think it has a lot to do with the government subsidizing of corn. Why would farmers continue to grow wheat when they are rewarded for growing corn for ethanol purposes? If the government let the market decide what it needed than farmers would grow corn for ethanol if/when there was a demand for ethanol. When that demand was met farmers would stop growing it, but now the government forces a demand for ethanol and farmers stop producing wheat in order to produce corn. If there is a surplus of corn the government will just buy it up from the farmers. It doesn't make sense to me and it seems like we're just trying to appease "environmental lobbyist."

I'm a little surprised, that the price of WHEAT increased the most, and than followed by COAL.. (oil and ethanol get more attention) also that LUMBER lost value. (cause u hear all these losing forests stories)
a pleasant surprise was the cost of meat staying the same... which with inflation included means cost of meats actually went down.

(some of these vary depending on which exchange u look up the prices)

TOP FIVE ON THIS LIST are..
1. WHEAT!!! 101% increase in price from a year ago.
2. COAL 71%
3. ETHANOL 66%
4. OIL 51%
5. PROPANE 50%

ENERGY
ETHANOL up 66% in one year.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

OIL up 51% in one year.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

COAL up 71% in one year.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

PROPANE up 50% in one year.
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/history....=15&a=50&v=d12

FOOD and FIBER

SUGAR 22.5% in one year.
MILK 26% in one year.
ORANGE JUICE DOWN -28%
LUMBER down -25%
COTTON 23% in one year.

GRAINS AND OIL SEEDS
CORN 21% in one year
OATS 47% increase!!
RICE 43% increase
Soybeans 44%
WHEAT 101%
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=CBOT_W.H08&v=d12

LIVESTOCK AND MEATS
Cattle .. pretty much unchanged.
Pork bellies.. pretty much the same
Live Cattle.. down just a tad.

METALS
ALUMINUM 21% in one year.
COPPER 41% in one year.
GOLD 40% in one year

[soulstealer]

Speaking of Government intervention,,, looks like Ralph Nader is gonna run again in 2008.

Commodities have been up big lately... all across the board..

You would think a lot of it would have to do with the crappy inflation numbers that came out the other day... but nothing out of norm has happened to the U.S dollar..

so basically it's just overall loss of value to all major global currencies across the board, to commodities.

or as the call it supply issues.
but supply issue is vaguely disguised overspending issue.. which again equals inflation issue.. just on a global scale.

At this very moment I think people are less concerned with inflation and more concerned with Equity losses of course inflation is a huge peace of the puzzle... pushing them to Commodities looking for some kind of save haven.... artificially cause what we see now.. suppressed equities in all sectors and an explosion of commodities without merit.. Its the double whammy man inflation+recession = Fear...any one smart would start buying equities like a freak in companies with strong earnings in 3-5 months...Because when consumer confidence returns stock values will rise again..and quickly

[Kärnfysikern]

I completely agree.

You would probably know this, doesn't it take more gas to actually produce ethanol from corn than the fuel it would actually save?

Different studies say slightely different things. But in any case the gain from ethanol is very small. The most optimistic figures is that you get out perhaps twice as much energy as you put in. But the main showstopper is the ammount of land needed to even fuel a fraction of the cars.

Contrast that to oil where you get something like 20-30 times as much energy out as you put in or nuclear where it can be several hundred times depending on reactor type and fuel composition.