Beginner with steroids

[baller911]

Hey guys I'm a busy guy working part time going to school full time dieting strictly and training 7 days a week. As of right now my routine is pretty good i do 5 days of weight lifting a week for an hour and I do 20 minutes of cardio for health (i eat enough for it not to affect my bulk). I have been training for a good 7 years now, lost a lot of muscle due to a lack in training/diet for 5 months and want to know some things about steroids. My diet is currently mainly comprised of complex carbs, some simple carbs (fruit) in the morning, pre workout and post work out, healthy fats and good proteins in every meal and the calories i consume are based on the harris and benedict equation with a ratio of 20%fat 15% protein 65% carbs. my stats are as follows:
19 years old
6'0
146lbs
11% body fat
ectomesomorph
I peaked at 170lbs 9% body fat.

My questions are as follows:
1) I have good self control, I want to do 1 or 2 cycles of steroids, will I be able to keep my gains if i go back to a natural diet plan (changed based on my new weight) and continue to train as I would naturally?
2) what steroids are right for me and how will the cycle work? I dont want to inject but if it comes down to it I will inject
3) What do I need to take in order to minimize or eliminate side effects?
4) how long should i wait between cycles
5)how will my training and diet differ? how many calories for my current weight and what would the ratio of macros be?
6) will i gain a substantial amount of fat off my bulk if its super clean?
7)how much weight do you predict i will gain on my first cycle? how much did you gain? (not important)
8) im apparently being offered a free steroid off this site, are the steroids here any good?

thanks to anybody who is willing to help me out.

[digsy1983]

Any advice you're going to receive on here isn't gona be what you want to hear, but I really hope you listen to the EXPERIENCED people.

The gist is, your too young or steroids. And also you don't need them! Your body is loaded with test and gh at your age.


How did you peak at 170lbs and 9% BF? This is testament that you don't need to cycle!

Please post up your diet. With calories (you've already stated the macros split) 15% protein isn't going to help on any diet. Imo. 40/40/20 would be a better split.

You will receive loads of advice regarding diet on here that will go beyond any cycle with a poor diet that you may have planned.

[baller911]

Fortunately im already expecting this cause i did do some reading lol. i chose 15% protein simply cause the calculator i used had that set as default for muscle building but i guess it makes sense to raise it, but 40% is way too high, ill go with 20 since that allows just over 1g per lb of body weight...3485 calories, and based on the change i just made each meal has 29g protein, 87g carbs, and 12g of fat and i have 6 meals a day. The what part of eating isnt a big issue with me, i eat fruits and veggies, black beans, turkey, chicken, brown rice, rolled oats, milk, greek yoghurt, almonds, avacodos, ground flax seeds, egg whites, eggs in moderation, cottage cheese, whole wheat pasta, cold cut meats (mainly red). it took me 3 years to reach my peak and that was in high school. i got the low body fat by carb cycling. it sucks to be down 26lbs of muscle from the point i used to be at.

[baller911]

i also have tuna and other stuff but i cant remember everything i eat lol

[digsy1983]

Are you sure you're 19?? It normally takes about 10 guys telling people your age repeatedly why they shouldn't and don't need steroids. Glad to see you've got a good outlook and wise head on your shoulders!!

Start another thread, with your stats and your goal. And set out your daily diet (meal by meal) with all the details you posted before.
Let this thread about steroid advice die, and youl get all the help you need!

Gud luck man!

[baller911]

im sure youre 100% right, but i still want to know, what damage will the steroids cause if i did take them now? and will the damage be permanent? if i like what i hear and feel its worth it i will keep this thread up but if not ill let this thread die. another question which will decide it will be will i be able to maintain the gains when im off the roids (for good)

[baller911]

and im 18, 19 in a month

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[marcus300]

AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection /tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT . Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

[fatman225]

Any advice you're going to receive on here isn't gona be what you want to hear, but I really hope you listen to the EXPERIENCED people.

The gist is, your too young or steroids. And also you don't need them! Your body is loaded with test and gh at your age.


How did you peak at 170lbs and 9% BF? This is testament that you don't need to cycle!

Please post up your diet. With calories (you've already stated the macros split) 15% protein isn't going to help on any diet. Imo. 40/40/20 would be a better split.

You will receive loads of advice regarding diet on here that will go beyond any cycle with a poor diet that you may have planned.

Even for a guy who is 6ft tall, this is a fantastic build if truly at 9%. Sure it does not look like a bodybuilder, but I am sure that no women will complain about how the body looks.

At 6ft tall natural at 9% bodyfat about 180 pounds would be what one could likely get to natural, even with ecto genetics.

Keep in mind that should be from hard work in the gym, and staying consistent, could be reached in about 2 years time, at 5 pounds per each year for the next 2 years.

NOT force feeding.

If I can say anything for 100% certain, given my personal experience, it is to NOT force feed or to get fat. I don't even like the term "bulk", as I feel that calories can be used from stored fat just like the ones that you recently ate.

So calories are needed for gaining muslce, but eating more than maintance levels is only needed if the bodyfat% is already under 10%.

Even then, I don't like the conventional "wisdom" of a 500 surplus each day. I think that is overkill. Anything more than it takes to build muscle will turn to fat.

I think it will do much more for a young man socially to stay lean anyway, and gain the muscle slowly. Keep a written record of weights used in the gym, progressive resistance, and 180 lean at 6ft tall is possible.

That may not sound like a lot, but think of a REAL 10 pounds of muscle increase. That is 10 steaks that weigh 16.oz in volume.

This is still possible to gain. Just don't overkill on the calories.

[baller911]

marcus your information has led me to decide that steroids are never going to happen for me. you seem pretty smart, whats your opinion on clen? i was thinking of getting a bottle since its free. and i understand the importance of diet since it got me to hit my peak, if i hadnt i probably wouldnt have had that as a peak

[baller911]

Even for a guy who is 6ft tall, this is a fantastic build if truly at 9%. Sure it does not look like a bodybuilder, but I am sure that no women will complain about how the body looks.

At 6ft tall natural at 9% bodyfat about 180 pounds would be what one could likely get to natural, even with ecto genetics.

Keep in mind that should be from hard work in the gym, and staying consistent, could be reached in about 2 years time, at 5 pounds per each year for the next 2 years.

NOT force feeding.

If I can say anything for 100% certain, given my personal experience, it is to NOT force feed or to get fat. I don't even like the term "bulk", as I feel that calories can be used from stored fat just like the ones that you recently ate.

So calories are needed for gaining muslce, but eating more than maintance levels is only needed if the bodyfat% is already under 10%.

Even then, I don't like the conventional "wisdom" of a 500 surplus each day. I think that is overkill. Anything more than it takes to build muscle will turn to fat.

I think it will do much more for a young man socially to stay lean anyway, and gain the muscle slowly. Keep a written record of weights used in the gym, progressive resistance, and 180 lean at 6ft tall is possible.

That may not sound like a lot, but think of a REAL 10 pounds of muscle increase. That is 10 steaks that weigh 16.oz in volume.

This is still possible to gain. Just don't overkill on the calories.

is nobody like reading what i posted on the thread? okay dude 5lbs per year is not the limit, its like 10-15 depending on genetics, telling me that eating like a pig to gain weight wont help is pointless cause i already know that and made it clear. and dude yes you should surplus otherwise youre not trying to gain youre maintaining, its more of how you allocate your macros and the quality of your food and not overdoing it simply because if you dont eat enough to gain weight youre not gonna build muscle. i use the harris and benedict equation because that imo helped me pretty much eliminate any fat gains and the calculator i used has an option based on your goals so it tells you what kind of surplus youre gonna be getting. I gained 6lbs of muscle in a school year

[MuscleInk]

is nobody like reading what i posted on the thread? okay dude 5lbs per year is not the limit, its like 10-15 depending on genetics, telling me that eating like a pig to gain weight wont help is pointless cause i already know that and made it clear. and dude yes you should surplus otherwise youre not trying to gain youre maintaining, its more of how you allocate your macros and the quality of your food and not overdoing it simply because if you dont eat enough to gain weight youre not gonna build muscle. i use the harris and benedict equation because that imo helped me pretty much eliminate any fat gains and the calculator i used has an option based on your goals so it tells you what kind of surplus youre gonna be getting. I gained 6lbs of muscle in a school year

I'm not personally a fan of clenbuterol because of the short term side effects and long term risk such as:

Blurred vision
Headaches
Hypothyroidism
cardiomyopathy

The benefits do not outweigh risks IMO. Commitment to a nutrition plan that promotes weight loss and LBM is safer and not difficult to achieve.

[baller911]

hmm...i might just try it out see how it works with a good diet just cause its free lol..speaking of which do i actually get a free steroid of my choice just for signing up here? and do the steroids on this site work?

[digsy1983]

I think the free steroid is a sign up bluff! I may be wrong.

Taking something because it's 'free' isn't really valid reason to take it.

[MuscleInk]

hmm...i might just try it out see how it works with a good diet just cause its free lol..speaking of which do i actually get a free steroid of my choice just for signing up here? and do the steroids on this site work?

Read all the information on that deal. Ar-r is a great resource but the so called steroids are steroid alternatives - nutritional supplements. Steroids are illegal in many/most countries so how could a public site operated in the US sell illegal products? They are nutritional supplements as clearly stated on the site.

[RaginCajun]

Hey guys I'm a busy guy working part time going to school full time dieting strictly and training 7 days a week. As of right now my routine is pretty good i do 5 days of weight lifting a week for an hour and I do 20 minutes of cardio for health (i eat enough for it not to affect my bulk). I have been training for a good 7 years now, lost a lot of muscle due to a lack in training/diet for 5 months and want to know some things about steroids. My diet is currently mainly comprised of complex carbs, some simple carbs (fruit) in the morning, pre workout and post work out, healthy fats and good proteins in every meal and the calories i consume are based on the harris and benedict equation with a ratio of 20%fat 15% protein 65% carbs. my stats are as follows:
19 years old
6'0
146lbs
11% body fat
ectomesomorph
I peaked at 170lbs 9% body fat.

My questions are as follows:
1) I have good self control, I want to do 1 or 2 cycles of steroids, will I be able to keep my gains if i go back to a natural diet plan (changed based on my new weight) and continue to train as I would naturally?
2) what steroids are right for me and how will the cycle work? I dont want to inject but if it comes down to it I will inject
3) What do I need to take in order to minimize or eliminate side effects?
4) how long should i wait between cycles
5)how will my training and diet differ? how many calories for my current weight and what would the ratio of macros be?
6) will i gain a substantial amount of fat off my bulk if its super clean?
7)how much weight do you predict i will gain on my first cycle? how much did you gain? (not important)
8) im apparently being offered a free steroid off this site, are the steroids here any good?

thanks to anybody who is willing to help me out.

if you got to this, then you do not need any kinds of steroids. you just need to learn how to eat/diet (cut or bulk). it would seem to me that you would want to bulk at 146lbs and 11% bf.

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

great info as always.

[RaginCajun]

oh another thing, read thru the stickies at the top of the nutrition forum and come up with a diet and the gurus will get you dialed in.

once you learn how to eat for your goals, you will be a beast!

[ShredMN]

Holy hell, an 18 year old with a head ontop of his shoulders rather than a ballon full of hot air... That my friend, is hard to come by on this site (or anywhere for that matter). I salute you.

[baller911]

lol i just want to have a fully functioning penis haha id rather be patient with this shit and reach my goals

[baller911]

hey marcus i have one question for you, ive lost muscle will gaining that muscle back be any faster? ive done a lot of reading on the subject and have read studies that prove and disprove it but would like to know once and for all

[fatman225]

is nobody like reading what i posted on the thread? okay dude 5lbs per year is not the limit, its like 10-15 depending on genetics, telling me that eating like a pig to gain weight wont help is pointless cause i already know that and made it clear. and dude yes you should surplus otherwise youre not trying to gain youre maintaining, its more of how you allocate your macros and the quality of your food and not overdoing it simply because if you dont eat enough to gain weight youre not gonna build muscle. i use the harris and benedict equation because that imo helped me pretty much eliminate any fat gains and the calculator i used has an option based on your goals so it tells you what kind of surplus youre gonna be getting. I gained 6lbs of muscle in a school year

So you are saying that a natural trainer who already has a few years training under his belt, can continue to gain 10-15 pounds of muscle each year?

[baller911]

seriously fatman do you not read? thats not what im saying, and that principal doesnt apply to me. of course as get closer to your genetic potential it gets harder to gain more muscle. If you dont understand english or arent going to take the time to read and understand what i say please get off my thread.

[marcus300]

hey marcus i have one question for you, ive lost muscle will gaining that muscle back be any faster? ive done a lot of reading on the subject and have read studies that prove and disprove it but would like to know once and for all

Muscle memory? Your right there are various studies but from my personal experience you will re gain the tissue lost quicker than building it in the first place.